[DapperButch]

My thoughts are in blue.

Originally Posted by Esme nha Maire

Hi Dapper!

It's the low level of genital dysphoria that you report that surprised me, Dapper, rather than the low level of desire for surgery. Knowing how chancy FTM genital reassignment surgery was, I wasn't surprised that some or even many might choose not to undergo it despite bodily dysphoria - but I was, until quite recently, assuming that FTMs had genital dysphoria just as strongly as MTF's do. Not surprised that FTMs get strong dysphoria about their breasts.

I frankly didnt give a monkeys what society's views were on genitalia or breasts as epitomising one gender or the other -

Right. When I was talking about society, I was talking about what we would have internalized unconsciously that might impact one's body dysphoria.

Too, and this is something that I didn't mention before, but that you might not know, is that the clitoris on a female bodied person enlarges quite a bit when they take testosterone. Many people don't realize how similar male and female bodies are. Some of the differences is only how they are configured.

A natal female's clitoris is really just a very small phallus, with the clitoral hood being the same as the a natal male's foreskin (or you can see it as vice versa...the male phallus being just a very large clitoris). Anyway, on testosterone, a FTM's clitoris grows on average to .5 - 1.5 inches. If you pull back the foreskin/clitoral hood, a perfectly circumcised phallus is underneath. The scrotal tissue of a natal male is the same tissue as the labia majora tissue on a female. The difference is that the labia majora tissue closed up during development in the womb in males. That is why you see the line between down the center of the scrotum. It is the labia majora tissue closing. And, of course, the testes are likened to the ovaries.

I got off track, but my point is that I think that one of the reason why FTMs have less lower genital dysphoria is that they have what would be termed a micropenis from testosterone.


I simply knew that my body was equipped with the wrong bits, and it needed to be equipped with the right bits to bring me inner peace. And reassignment surgery below plus breast development up top DID bring me inner peace. My body felt right, my brain is wired for this body, not the one I had.

Do you know if the NHS will pay for breast implants for MTFs? Here is is seen as cosmetic for trans women, the same as it is seen for cis women. Not all trans women get much breast growth though.

I do not understand your reference to insurance - that's actually something that I have been meaning to ask you privately for a while. Insurance had nothing to do with it. Gender reassignment treatment here is free on the NHS. That's it. I don't even understand where insurance could come into the picture (caveat - this hits an area in which I am, to this day, unworldly, so if it involves insurance and isn't utterly straightforward, I might not understand).

Right, I know how the NHS system works. Trans people in the U.S. have been jealous of ya'll in the UK and Canada for years, what with your free surgeries! In the U.S. one can have private insurance (employer and/or you pay for), or insurance provided free from the government for people who are below the poverty level or for people who are on disability. Until the last 5 years it was very, very, super, super rare that any of the insurance companies paid for transgender surgeries. So, if you wanted top or lower surgery, you had to pay out of pocket. Now that more insurance companies are covering (paying for) surgeries, we are seeing a dramatic increase in surgeries for both sexes. Back in the day (mid 1960's-mid 1970's) at the old time "gender clinics" (I know you guys still have those, and use that term), surgeries were covered. The gender clinics where through university hospitals. I don't know who paid for the surgeries, the government or the private insurance companies, but somehow, back then, if you were determined to be transsexual you got your surgery. That stopped when the clinics closed in the later 1970's.

With regard to sexuality, it did seem to be expected that us MTF's would have at least some desire for guys, yes. I told the truth, which in the first instance was that I had had crushes on people of both genders, but that my libido had gone quiescent, and I really wasn't too worried about that until after I'd had surgery - I'd work things out in the end. Perfectly true at teh time. This did not seem to cause any concern.

Well, here in the U.S. you would be denied trans health care if you were gay. There was a FTM, Lou Sullivan, in the 1970's, who was denied acceptance to the gender clinic 10 times because he was gay...he actually was a pioneer who essentially "started" the coming together of the trans community in the U.S.

I never lied about my interests, which I know a lot of the others did, to try to appear socially more femme. I didn't see the point - one wouldn't have to try very hard to spot the lie.

They also turned you away if you weren't seen as feminine enough if you were MTF. The whole thing was so freaking ridiculous.