Quote:
Originally Posted by dreadgeek
So, I'm curious about something. Let's stipulate that the goal is acceptance. Let's also stipulate that acceptance is something we are going to have to convince people of (in other words, we're not going to be able to use either the law or the Jedi mind trick to gain acceptance). The minute we're talking about convincing people we're talking about bargaining and the minute we're talking about bargaining, we have to talk cost.
<snipped solely for beverity and enough characters for me>
What are we willing to pay with for acceptance and how will we know when we have finally crossed into the Promised Land?
Cheers
Aj
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When ever I read discussions like this, I'm reminded of a game that my uncle and some of his close friends created in the days of BBSes (late 80s/early 90s) called Pyroto Mountain. The goal of the game was to get to the top of the mountain and establish a "gov't" of sorts. It was never officially stated as a social-economic study but worked out to that. One of the most telling things that my uncle imparted on me was that it's hard to change people's minds without major changes (e.g., the Middle East in general but specifically the history between Palestinians and Israel, et al).
To me, in many ways, this is often what it feels like for the Queer community and the rest of North America (I specify this since there is more than the US on this continent and the Queer community faces challenges in both Canada and Mexico). That said, I don't know if there is a specific thing that is uniform for each group as to what we will sacrifice. For example, this week I had a Mormon in my class. Now, I could have gone off on their stance in regards to Prop 8 but it would neither be professional nor would it have created a good stance. I did freely talk (when not teaching and it was more a relaxed non-topic discussion) about going to Pride marches and such. And even asked him about his beliefs and Mormon principles and the like. It was an interesting discussion. Now I don't know how he personally felt about gay marriage and such but based on my discussion I believe he was probably more open than what his "leaders" would be.
For me, acknowledging that the "other" side (or non-Queer side) is just as human as the rest of us. And that the "leaders" that speak for them aren't necessarily true of what the individuals believe. Respect for their religion/beliefs and right to exist is not something I would considering "paying" for but as concept of good moral values -- the idea of treating others as I would expect to be treated and regardless of what they say or do. Does that mean I bend over? No. But neither does it mean that I will react as they do.
So this still makes me wonder as to what we pay to get acceptance. In Canada, it was patience and support of the general population. And even though it's written into law that same-sex marriage is legal federally, it doesn't preclude others from accepting us. When we make Queer lives (not lifestyle but lives) as a normal part of society, it is, IMO, more likely to be accepted. But that takes time and effort to do the little "fights" in the more common social aspects of life. It means being brave enough to put pictures of your family at your work, talking about your work like others talk about their husbands/wives, etc. Is it easy? No.
Now, as I type this, part of me thinks that there are differences in acceptance in society of various parts of the Queer community. It's not just gays and lesbians, who are the most prominent part of the community. But also those that challenge the gender norms of what is accepted in society. As much as the Queer community might have similar goals, there are stark differences as to need and likely acceptance at this point, IMO. And I think that would change what we're willing to "pay" for acceptance. (I don't know if I'm being clear on this and I may try later to re-iterate better what I think about this). This makes me think that what different parts of the Queer community consider as acceptable to give up would be different between different parts. I don't know if we have just one thing that is uniform for all of the Queer community.