Questions for Transguys from other Transguys

[DapperButch]

Hey, guys!

I thought I would write a thread for transguys (FTM, or anyone who identifies as male or male leaning) to ask other transguys questions, for when they don't want to make a whole thread.

For me, transguys/FTMs who are a part of the B/F/T community fits best for my identity, so regular FTM forums don't meet all of my needs.

[BestButchBoy]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Hey, guys!

I thought I would write a thread for transguys (FTM, or anyone who identifies as male or male leaning) to ask other transguys questions, for when they don't want to make a whole thread.

For me, transguys/FTMs who are a part of the B/F/T community fits best for my identity, so regular FTM forums don't meet all of my needs.

Bump. Bumping. Bumped.

[JDeere]

Okay how do you go about doing the "I am transgendered talk", with someone you are dating?

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by JDeere

Okay how do you go about doing the "I am transgendered talk", with someone you are dating?

I've always told them how I identify before we started dating. 'Cause, why would I date someone prior to knowing if they would be attracted to the person I am?

I would tell her/him/them as soon as possible. Especially if you still plan to take hormones and therefore live as male. It is only fair to them to know up front.

[Hominid]

I hope to read some responses here - I have been in a few long-term relationships, and dated here and there between. Everyone has already known - for the most part. With a few women I have worked around, long after transition, as soon as I sense an interest might be present, a friendship or more developing, I usually pull them aside and with my usual wit and humor say, "there's something most people here don't know, I've had a sex change" - it's just the easiest verbiage for me to get out quickly, to make the point as fast as possible and get OUT of the conversation. If she's still interested, it shows and we follow up. Another reason I use the "sex change" phrase, as passe as it is for us, is that I have on a few occasions told someone using "trans" in some form and I could see h/im struggle for a moment and them some version of "are you going from male to female or vice versa?" comes out. It always cracks me up - I've at times pointed out that if I wanted to be a female, I would not be dressing as a male. Then again, it occurs to me now that s/he has no idea where I am in the process, and which way I'm going.

All that said, the vast majority of women I've gone out with have known up front - either from web sites (a couple OK Cupids, this site, Fetlife), or rarely, someone from the community in which I have lived for many years and raised my kids - so they have either heard of it or knew me at the beginning of the process.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Hominid

I hope to read some responses here - I have been in a few long-term relationships, and dated here and there between. Everyone has already known - for the most part. With a few women I have worked around, long after transition, as soon as I sense an interest might be present, a friendship or more developing, I usually pull them aside and with my usual wit and humor say, "there's something most people here don't know, I've had a sex change" - it's just the easiest verbiage for me to get out quickly, to make the point as fast as possible and get OUT of the conversation. If she's still interested, it shows and we follow up. Another reason I use the "sex change" phrase, as passe as it is for us, is that I have on a few occasions told someone using "trans" in some form and I could see h/im struggle for a moment and them some version of "are you going from male to female or vice versa?" comes out. It always cracks me up - I've at times pointed out that if I wanted to be a female, I would not be dressing as a male. Then again, it occurs to me now that s/he has no idea where I am in the process, and which way I'm going.

All that said, the vast majority of women I've gone out with have known up front - either from web sites (a couple OK Cupids, this site, Fetlife), or rarely, someone from the community in which I have lived for many years and raised my kids - so they have either heard of it or knew me at the beginning of the process.

Hey, Hominid, I am glad you came into the thread. I was thinking about how my response to a non-T guy/Pre-T guy (JDeere), may be different from what I would say to someone (like yourself), who is on hormones and is living as male.

Although I believe it is up to the individual in all cases, for some reason I tend to think that if you KNOW you are going to take testosterone and live as a male, that you should tell that person sooner rather than later. I mean, they think they are going out with a female. Shouldn't they know they are dating a male (assuming the person plans to transition with hormones)?

For the guy who is already on testosterone/living as male, the person can see that they are dating a guy from the get go. So for me, that is more foggy. There is no longer a "fairness" issue there, in the same sort of way. I'm sure a lot of people would disagree with that statement, though. But, maybe that is only for those people who don't see FTMs as "real men"? Anyway...

Now, that I am on testosterone, and living as male (name change in 6 days!), I don't know how quickly I would tell someone (if I were looking). I think I would tell them as soon as things seemed to be moving in that direction (like you do), but I no longer see it as a "fairness" issue, in the same way I do a guy who hasn't started the medical process of transition yet. The person can already see I am male. Does this make sense?

I think that both pre-T and actively transitioning men have the right to make their own decision about when to tell and what to tell, but the above is how I reason it all out for myself.

I like the way you go about it, Hominid.

[JDeere]

Thanks Dapper and Hominid!

I am going to start the conversation soon with her, possibly tonight when she gets home from work and settled in.

[Hominid]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

I think I would tell them as soon as things seemed to be moving in that direction (like you do?), but I no longer see it as a "fairness" issue, in the same way I do a guy who hasn't started the medical process of transition yet. The person can already see I am male. Does this make sense

I think that both pre-T and actively transitioning men have the right to make their own decision about when to tell and what to tell, but the above is how I reason it all out for myself.

I like the way you go about it, Hominid.

Why thank you - yes, you nailed it with the "fairness" thing - I like that a lot! I am not concerned with being fair to anyone regarding my transition - except myself. However, "the person can already see I'm male" thing doesn't fit with my psyche - not because I'm not, but because I know, NOT as a matter of respect for her or *fairness*, that it DOES matter to many women, whether I like it or not. That said, because I *am* male, and it shows, that hint of a connection includes and assumes my maleness. It's the parts of me (history, body, etc) that are NOT male that are of concern. When younger, or earlier along, interest in me as a male was not always clear. I was involved with women who weren't into the binary path I chose. In fact, a few clearly did not want to be with a man, or more accurately, didn't want to be seen as "straight" and I was too male appearing (and not interested in being a trans spokesperson who has everything thinking about my genitals everywhere I go). I also realized that, frankly (not a confession I'm proud of, but just my own feeling), that it would matter a great deal to me if a woman I was interested in was trans, and I'm not at all sure I couldn't NOT see it. I'm not wasting energy on a friendship that may go somewhere if I can weed her out early on. The instant there is interest, and by that, I mean ANY personal connection and I feel attraction (for after all, if I don't, I'll never have to worry about it) - I do this "I had a sex change" thing. However, having been doing this for over a decade, some of my response is about earlier on. It's true I could "pass" within a few months of starting T and surgery (albeit as a guy 10 years my junior) - I was VERY lucky with body shape and sideburns. But damn, that three months of ambiguity HURT. Going to work every day and working with hundreds of people was so hard. So hard I didn't know then. Fortunately, I was married at the time and not dating.

Even though I am past all that, what I have found is my own comfort is what matters most. And my own comfort is centered around NOT being trans. Other than my shot every week or so, transitioning is no longer part of my life. I will always honor my female past, I will never hide my childhood pictures, and I know that the blessing of having lived as female is a gift I've put to great use, and it is part of an intimate relationship. It's important, it matters, and rather than get involved to ANY degree and get kicked in the shins, I save myself the trouble. Anyone can ask me anything - but it makes it easier for ME to leave the trans issue behind as fast as possible. I see totally the argument for "hey, I'm male - just male, this is part of my story I can share later" - it's even right, should be true. But I think it's not very realistic, at least for me. WAY too much energy put into someone to have to sort out after we know we're going to try to go somewhere. I'd much rather put it out there before I'm even sure anything is going to happen and let her wrestle with it, google it, think about it.

In all but one case so far - after an initial, barely perceptible moment of discomfort and pulling back in reflection, she comes back and has been absolutely fine with it. Sees that I'm still to whom she was attracted, sees that I'm still an available, interesting, honest guy. But the onus is on her, and she has some time, and we haven't invested any time at all in anything but banter and conversation in a non-dating environment. But - I do tend to bond with people on some level as friends before - it's not like I meet someone and we go out without knowing and respecting each other, which probably differs from others.

In the one case that was the exception -I'm not positive it's being trans that was the issue, but I think it took her longer to think about it. We had an attraction, but work very closely together and became good friends. I did my usual routine early on. I think she was very dick-centric, maybe. I think I could spend more time with her and "show" her - but now we're good friends and I'm hesitant to cross that line I know she'd be okay with me crossing in the right circumstance.

When younger, and working at a place where many people knew and I didn't know who knew and who did not - and, *I* felt I looked more "trans" - I worried and fretted and perhaps limited myself to avoid the conversation. I still avoid it, but in a different way.

And, I want to add - brethren, not a SINGLE woman who has been straight as an arrow, naive, unexposed, unaware - not a SINGLE one has failed to remain interested. I say I had a sex change, a few days later I see her again, and I'm still smiling, joking, being obnoxious, competent, not-the-least self-conscious - master of my silly domain - and every single one has remained interested! Thanks be to the goddesses for the internet and the fact that I am attracted to thoughtful women who can process this on their own.

OH MY GOD - that was long- apologies!! I guess, in summation (heh): free yourself of as much of the burden as early as you can, the burden of telling someone you're already engaged with and pain is possible, the burden of carrying the worry around, the burden of being angry because she really does associate maleness with having certain equipment (a truth for many women, whether they'd admit to being wrong if we could only show them!). Life's too short and as we age, bullshit and what we choose as our burdens fall away.
Good god, that was my summation. Ach.

[DapperButch]

How long did it take for your neck to stop growing after you started T?

I went out about a month ago and bought new dress shirts because my old ones were too tight in my shoulders/arms due to muscle growth.

I was going to be wearing ties for the first time to work and so I made sure the top button was comfortable when closed.

Well, a month later when I went to put on a tie, the shirts were already too tight around my neck, so I can't button the top button.

How much larger did your neck size get after you went on T? I don't know if I should buy new shirts to fit my current neck size, or go up an extra 1/2 inch beyond what would be comfortable now in case it keeps getting bigger.

Thanks for any thoughts.

[Liam]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

How long did it take for your neck to stop growing after you started T?
How much larger did your neck size get after you went on T?

Thanks for any thoughts.

I have resigned myself to the fact that testosterone does mysterious things, and my body is in a constant state of flux. During my first year of being on T, I did notice that my neck was suddenly huge - it had increased in size by two inches! Several months later it had decreased by one inch, where it seems to remain, although I have noticed that there are times when its very difficult to button that top button.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Liam

I have resigned myself to the fact that testosterone does mysterious things, and my body is in a constant state of flux. During my first year of being on T, I did notice that my neck was suddenly huge - it had increased in size by two inches! Several months later it had decreased by one inch, where it seems to remain, although I have noticed that there are times when its very difficult to button that top button.

So much for consistency! ha! Thanks for writing, Liam.

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

How long did it take for your neck to stop growing after you started T?

I went out about a month ago and bought new dress shirts because my old ones were too tight in my shoulders/arms due to muscle growth.

I was going to be wearing ties for the first time to work and so I made sure the top button was comfortable when closed.

Well, a month later when I went to put on a tie, the shirts were already too tight around my neck, so I can't button the top button.

How much larger did your neck size get after you went on T? I don't know if I should buy new shirts to fit my current neck size, or go up an extra 1/2 inch beyond what would be comfortable now in case it keeps getting bigger.

Thanks for any thoughts.

Pre-T I wore 15s, and now I wear 16 1/2s. I don't know how long it took for it to settle at that number though. My suggestion is to buy shirts that you will also wear as an open collar "dress" shirt. I have quite a few 16s that I can't wear with a tie, but I'm still able to wear them with an open collar.

[Hominid]

There are also "collar spreaders" if you get in a pinch (forgive the pun). If your neck is slightly too tight you can put this thing on and it's not visible with a tie.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Thinker

Pre-T I wore 15s, and now I wear 16 1/2s. I don't know how long it took for it to settle at that number though. My suggestion is to buy shirts that you will also wear as an open collar "dress" shirt. I have quite a few 16s that I can't wear with a tie, but I'm still able to wear them with an open collar.

This is good advice. I can/have been wearing them open, and I do need to keep in mind any new ones I purchase need to be able to be worn open, as well. It's all about button placement!

Originally Posted by Hominid

There are also "collar spreaders" if you get in a pinch (forgive the pun). If your neck is slightly too tight you can put this thing on and it's not visible with a tie.

I will look into this. I can button to top button (they are just too tight to be comfortable), so hopefully this will work for me. I appreciate you posting this.

Thanks, gentlemen!

[Liam]

Originally Posted by Hominid

There are also "collar spreaders" if you get in a pinch (forgive the pun). If your neck is slightly too tight you can put this thing on and it's not visible with a tie.

I think I will pass on the collar spreaders and go with the collar extenders.

[Hominid]

Originally Posted by Liam

I think I will pass on the collar spreaders and go with the collar extenders.

Well, it's a personal choice I'll have to respect ...

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Hominid

Well, it's a personal choice I'll have to respect ...

When I looked for "collar spreaders", it did make me chuckle. Some googling sent me to the right place.

I ordered some metal extenders (in fact the same ones Liam posted, but I got 5 on amazon for less $), and then thought it best to throw in a few pants extenders!

Oh the joy of being newly on T!

Has anyone tried the metal versus plastic ones? The metal ones look kind of thick, but I got them anyway.

Thanks again for your help, guys.

[Jess]

Haven't really had time to post on here, but I have been keeping an eye on this thread and wanted to pop in and give thanks to Dapper for starting it and all of you contributors.

Lots of great information!

As things settle down for me (hopefully in the next month or thereabouts) I will be able to participate actively. I have questions that I am sure you all can help guide me with and I am very grateful for what you all are already sharing. You are answering some questions I didn't even know I had.

Thank you!

[Hominid]

Originally Posted by JDeere

Thanks Dapper and Hominid!

I am going to start the conversation soon with her, possibly tonight when she gets home from work and settled in.

How did it go??

[Hominid]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

When I looked for "collar spreaders", it did make me chuckle. Some googling sent me to the right place.

I ordered some metal extenders (in fact the same ones Liam posted, but I got 5 on amazon for less $), and then thought it best to throw in a few pants extenders!

Oh the joy of being newly on T!

Has anyone tried the metal versus plastic ones? The metal ones look kind of thick, but I got them anyway.

Thanks again for your help, guys.

I SO KNEW that was wrong when I posted it - but rushed right in anyway. Good for a funny, although I don't see why we all shouldn't order both!!

Dapper, I've tried both the metal and plastic. Frankly, I found the plastic ones I bought easier to use and didn't think about them throughout the day. I had two different brands, not knowing which would show up in time for the job interview. Each plastic brand has a little "give", just enough to get around each top button with ease. The metal were of course more stiff, and with no other consideration, nicer. But they're meant to remain unseen behind the tie, so no matter how much I liked the idea of the stainless steel, they just didn't work as well. I gauge this review largely by the degree of homicidal feelings toward the dude in the mirror while struggling with buttons never meant to be wrangled with by grown men. So, the plastic wins for ease of use, staying hidden well, and having several on hand afford-ably for emergency use.