Possible Triggering: Violence against butches.

[Merlin]

We call it gay bashing here.

Have you ever been assaulted for the way you look/being gay ?

Touch wood no-one has ever laid a finger on me (one of the benefits of passing ) but I feel like I am living on borrowed time.

[Blade]

Nothing has ever happened to me. I get looks sometimes, but that is about it. I'm hoping that nobody does anything stupid. I'm sorta like ummm "don't fuck with me I fuck back". I'd ignore people's stares or comments. Now if they put their hands on me I'd be like a fire breathing dragon.

[Ebon]

Like Blade I've never been assaulted. I do get stares and dirty looks which don't bother me. I've been called a faggot too.

Nope never ever remotely had such problems. Just the inevitable looks and 'are you in the right bathroom?' comments that lots of us get.

[Blade]

Originally Posted by Incubus

Nope never ever remotely had such problems. Just the inevitable looks and 'are you in the right bathroom?' comments that lots of us get.

chuckling...yeah I get that a good bit too, or the WIDE EYED look is enough. But have never experienced anything aggressive

[citybutch]

Yes, was punched in the face while I was standing outside a bar in Boston in the mid eighties (Somewhere Else, anyone else remember it?). I was having a smoke waiting for a girl to come out. The bar was on a back side street downtown... and I was leaning against a pole. Some guy walked up and said "Hey butch, gotta light?" As I was pulling out my lighter he punched in the face and he and his friend ran off...

I had a nasty bloody nose... but it got a cute girl to take me home...

[Ebon]

Originally Posted by citybutch

Yes, was punched in the face while I was standing outside a bar in Boston in the mid eighties (Somewhere Else, anyone else remember it?). I was having a smoke waiting for a girl to come out. The bar was on a back side street downtown... and I was leaning against a pole. Some guy walked up and said "Hey butch, gotta light?" As I was pulling out my lighter he punched in the face and he and his friend ran off...

I had a nasty bloody nose... but it got a cute girl to take me home...

Boston is where I got called the F word. lol

Originally Posted by Blade

chuckling...yeah I get that a good bit too, or the WIDE EYED look is enough. But have never experienced anything aggressive

D'yanno I've never experienced anything worse than "F*ckin' dykes!" once or twice or the "Get out of the women's bathroom" comments. I don't recall anyone having been aggressive because I'm quite obviously queer. Have I been lucky in the 20 odd years I've been 'out'?. I don't think so, I think it's more about how we deal with the world and people around us. I am pretty lucky that I live in a town with a significant gay population though.

Eeeek citybutch, that was rough luck.

[citybutch]

Oh yes... lot's of "fucking dyke" comments....

When I owned a woman's bookstore we had a lot of violence directed our way...

-bullet holes in the windows
-pornographic images of men's penises stuffed into our doorway at night
-harrassing phone calls
-young boys daring each other to run in circling the store yelling "fucking dykes"
-obscene graffiti sprayed on the side of our building

I could go on and on...

Originally Posted by Incubus

D'yanno I've never experienced anything worse than "F*ckin' dykes!" once or twice or the "Get out of the women's bathroom" comments. I don't recall anyone having been aggressive because I'm quite obviously queer. Have I been lucky in the 20 odd years I've been 'out'?. I don't think so, I think it's more about how we deal with the world and people around us. I am pretty lucky that I live in a town with a significant gay population though.

Eeeek citybutch, that was rough luck.

[maskandmiror]

Originally Posted by Incubus

Nope never ever remotely had such problems. Just the inevitable looks and 'are you in the right bathroom?' comments that lots of us get.

juste peace and love all people worlds 2012 and all yers after 2012

[Converse]

Originally Posted by Merlin

We call it gay bashing here.

Have you ever been assaulted for the way you look/being gay ?

Touch wood no-one has ever laid a finger on me (one of the benefits of passing ) but I feel like I am living on borrowed time.

Yes of course, all of the verbal assaults, the majority of which have happened when I’ve been with a Femme- I have never fully understood why, perhaps others have thoughts on that.

And of course the bathroom sagas of boyfriends waiting for me to come out after their girlfriends have told them about the “freak” they saw inside. Then an incident that started with a comment about my tie, as I stopped at a gas station late one night, that led to a car chase and some dented panels, and twice a gun held to my head; one from the Femmes family member who would have been able to “deal with it” if I “at least looked like a female”, and the other from a stranger in a parking lot who didn’t like the look of me.

I’ve felt rage and fear and embarrassment because of attacks, the first I remember happened in high school when I was held down so I could be branded with my very first “label” courtesy of a lit cigarette – but I think of everything, two incidents stand out for me the most: the first came on a beautiful sunny afternoon when an older woman beat me with a bible as I tried to walk past; and the second were the words that came from a family member who while offering me ice for a blackened eye said “well what do you expect walking around looking like that”.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Converse

Yes of course, all of the verbal assaults, the majority of which have happened when I’ve been with a Femme- I have never fully understood why, perhaps others have thoughts on that.

And of course the bathroom sagas of boyfriends waiting for me to come out after their girlfriends have told them about the “freak” they saw inside. Then an incident that started with a comment about my tie, as I stopped at a gas station late one night, that led to a car chase and some dented panels, and twice a gun held to my head; one from the Femmes family member who would have been able to “deal with it” if I “at least looked like a female”, and the other from a stranger in a parking lot who didn’t like the look of me.

I’ve felt rage and fear and embarrassment because of attacks, the first I remember happened in high school when I was held down so I could be branded with my very first “label” courtesy of a lit cigarette – but I think of everything, two incidents stand out for me the most: the first came on a beautiful sunny afternoon when an older woman beat me with a bible as I tried to walk past; and the second were the words that came from a family member who while offering me ice for a blackened eye said “well what do you expect walking around looking like that”.

Originally Posted by cody

yes it happens more often then most will know alot of us/me just dont like to admit alot of the verbal that bothers...( me/us).. and i know i dont want to talk about any kind of sexual violence.. i think alot goes un reported because of butch pride... i know thats the case for me. if im asked where this scar or this bruise or why my distant state of mind i will pass it off as something else. every once in awhile ill talk about some of it to a close friend or my sister. it often makes me wonder if i some how bring it on myself for being who i am, not meaning putting my beliefs/lifestyle in everyones face. but for the simple things i do like wearing my levis,boots,tats, hair cut,ect. things i am confertable wearing
in response to a rep.... yes it happens everywhere!!

Both of these posts make my heart ache. It aches for we butches, our transmembers and the experiences of femmes that happen. Some of us just have had some pretty violent attacks against us and I can so relate to often, just keeping it inside. One reason I was really glad to see this thread is because I do think we all can hold in this stuff. And it felt good to have a butch centered thread to talk about it all. Even though I hate hearing other's stories, it does feel like I am not alone. I'm sure this also goes for our many trans members and femmes. But I know it isn't easy to post about it- thanks.

To this day- and I am 60 years old, I have not told one family member about the violence/rape I have encountered as a lesbian and as a butch.

[Jett]

I'm not sure exactly where I'm going with this, but it feels very linked in to this thread. I experienced sexual assault more than once before I began "appearing" butch in my late teens, after growing into that "butch look" more I'd experienced physical and a lot of verbal assault.

At this time I no longer outwardly appear even close to as butch as I once did, MUCH harder to peg and I have to say I am jaw dropping like staggered at how extremely consistently differently I am treated. Being outwardly butch for decades I was well aware of the stares and slurs and like I said getting in scraps... but I was never aware how many ppl were just remaining silent.

When I walk around now, ppl talk to me, "Hey hot enough for you?"... "Are you my new neighbor?" "Hey looks like that dog is walking you!" lots of joking all the people that smile at me... and just say hello... some ppl did this before, but the difference is like I said, absolutely freaking staggering. I had no idea, even being smack dab in the middle of it (I was "outwardly" butch for over twenty years). In my opinion butches experience a form of double jeopardy... being/females physically and or women and also gender variant and queer. Maybe like triple jeopardy I guess.

Now... today, walking down a lonely street I am more, feel more keenly aware of the risk to me of sexual assault (perhaps just my own perception or ghost of the past haunting me) but feel (hindsightedly) much more aware of the danger of being butch in this world. I can't even feel good about all the "kinder" attention now, I feel guilty when it happens... and I think about all my bro's and sisters out there.

Like I said... I don't know where I'm going with this... kind of rambling out things that have been on my mind, but I'll just say pls be AWARE and be SAFE...

[Merlin]

Quoted by Yoda in the star wars movies and also used in the facebook group wipeout homophobia but it is a wise statement.

Fear is the path to the dark side,Fear leads to anger,anger leads to hate,hate leads to suffering.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Metropolis

I'm not sure exactly where I'm going with this, but it feels very linked in to this thread. I experienced sexual assault more than once before I began "appearing" butch in my late teens, after growing into that "butch look" more I'd experienced physical and a lot of verbal assault.

At this time I no longer outwardly appear even close to as butch as I once did, MUCH harder to peg and I have to say I am jaw dropping like staggered at how extremely consistently differently I am treated. Being outwardly butch for decades I was well aware of the stares and slurs and like I said getting in scraps... but I was never aware how many ppl were just remaining silent.

When I walk around now, ppl talk to me, "Hey hot enough for you?"... "Are you my new neighbor?" "Hey looks like that dog is walking you!" lots of joking all the people that smile at me... and just say hello... some ppl did this before, but the difference is like I said, absolutely freaking staggering. I had no idea, even being smack dab in the middle of it (I was "outwardly" butch for over twenty years). In my opinion butches experience a form of double jeopardy... being/females physically and or women and also gender variant and queer. Maybe like triple jeopardy I guess.

Now... today, walking down a lonely street I am more, feel more keenly aware of the risk to me of sexual assault (perhaps just my own perception or ghost of the past haunting me) but feel (hindsightedly) much more aware of the danger of being butch in this world. I can't even feel good about all the "kinder" attention now, I feel guilty when it happens... and I think about all my bro's and sisters out there.

Like I said... I don't know where I'm going with this... kind of rambling out things that have been on my mind, but I'll just say pls be AWARE and be SAFE...

Thank you for posting this. Certainly resonates with me- in reverse. It wasn't until the past decade that I really came into my butch identity more in terms of outward appearance. Although, I too, have been both sexually and physically assualted in my life and continue to be very aware of vulnerability to rape as a woman, there is a big difference in exactly the things you mention- people (as in "general" public) are much less likely to greet me and say hello or even hold any eye contact. How I am treated by store employees, etc. in stores is different., etc. I have had incidences that I talked about previously happen much more often than when I was just a "regular" lesbian such as name calling and the usual verbal sexual challenges by men. I won't use public transportation alone or late at night anymore.

I felt much safer prior to allowing myself to let the "butch look" just be for myself. There has been a cost even though I know I live in a much more open geographic region in the US.

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by Converse

Yes of course, all of the verbal assaults, the majority of which have happened when I’ve been with a Femme- I have never fully understood why, perhaps others have thoughts on that”.

My thoughts, as a femme, as to why this happens is based on my personal experiences when I was in my 20's & 30's. Bio men that are insecure tend to look at femmes/ feminine women, as their property.

It confuses and threatens them to see an attractive younger femme with a butch female. I literally had a couple ask me one time: "What does she have that I don't have?" I wasn't afraid for myself as much as I was afraid of potential violence against my ex-butch (or I might have explained it to them).

This type of thing did not happen when I was out with my femme girl-friend. They were not threatened by two feminine women together. If they knew I was gay, they in fact, found it titillating.

My ex-husband paid minimal child support when I was with the femme but when I got with ex-butch, he became very angry and stopped paying, period. "What she can't support you...?"

[Tuff Stuff]

Originally Posted by Merlin

We call it gay bashing here.

Have you ever been assaulted for the way you look/being gay ?

Touch wood no-one has ever laid a finger on me (one of the benefits of passing ) but I feel like I am living on borrowed time.

I was not only beat up I was also raped in my life because I am a butch woman.

Both times this happen when I was a very boyish looking teenage cad..too confident in my mannerism that they had to Show Me.

It was one of the main reasons I started boxing and weightlifting.One time professional boxer Loreto Garza trained me at a local gym in Sacramento back in the 1980s.I owe him a great deal.Alot of the moves he taught me I believe saved my life more than a few times since.

These days i'm a huge looking "guy",I get mistaken for a dude all the time.I still enter amature nights at the Casino..hey,a thousand buck purse is still

Anyways..what happen to me in the past can still happen..you just have to be careful..its quite dangerous for everyone these days.

Take care of yourselves and your loved ones.

[Mormegil]

Ive never had violence thank God , I get looks now and then. Im still growing into myself so to speak. Seem to be growing more masculine in the last couple year , feels right. But ever since i was a kid Ive been mistaken for a boy.

People are like " Sir? , excuse me sir? " or I had a kid say "hey mister" at work the other day. Doesnt bother me at all . The fact Im a 44 DD makes me worry these people are in need of serious eye care but other than that lol

Had some bottles thrown at me from cars when I was out trying to exercise , some shouting at me but couldnt make out what he said.

Only other time I ever felt on guard even was when I briefly dated a woman earlier this year and I wanted to hold hands in public. I wouldnt have worried so much if she hadnt been so concerned. But I watched the people around us and for the most part nobody even noticed. I mean had a couple people looking at our hands then look away , but this is the south .

I carry a knife on me at all times just incase but despite the area , I never heard of gay bashing or violence towards butches or anyone. Had some bible thumpers at the gay pride but they just stood there waving posters and left when they relized we were just ignoring them .