Open Letter: Dear Femme

[evolveme]

Dear Femme,

In the last week, here and elsewhere, heated discussions have arisen as to the overwhelming male-centric nature of our on-line spaces, our communities. We have come into those discussions to address this concern, always as a voice of support. Support for those who feel challenged (trans and male-id’d people). Support for those who feel unseen (women-identified butches).

In the process, we have been accused of “acting straight.” We have been told we too often “roll over for the men.” Some of us have been accused of flagrant misogyny. We have had to listen to old theories wherein female is connected to Feeling and male is tied to Logic. If we ask for facts, we are buying into the Patriarchy, not thinking with a whole and human mind.

Out of these debates I have seen how it may be true, the notion of male-centrism, but perhaps it is more true that this bias is generally a masculine one, than simply male.

In these communities, too often, our voices have been ones of undying support. When the masculine other requires us, we never fail to stroke, to attend, to remind her or him that yes, all things are as you wish them because we are here, beside you. Being that thing you most desire. That thing you need to remind you of your own worth and worthiness.

But, Dear Femme, when I read what you have to say in published essay, or blog, or on-line journal, you are so much else. You are alive with your own power. Your desire for Butch is only a passing commentary in the ungraspable passage of what-all is You.

And so I ask you, how do we recover ourselves, no matter how we identify, from the grip of the vortex of the masculine mean? How do we attend ourselves, or will we? While it may be true that the masculine bears an ancient wound, it is equally true that so does the feminine. I challenge you to consider her, You, and to talk about her tenderly and bravely, well and wisely, wholly and without the self-editing that comes of the reservation we put into so much of what we say here when we are attending to our masculine counterparts.

Let her loose.

I have an incredible amount of love for All of Them, but were I honest, even more for You.

Julie

[Bit]

Dear Sister Femme,

{{{{{{{{{{{{Julie}}}}}}}}}}}}} Thank you. And I love you, too.

You've articulated it perfectly. I haven't seen the accusations but then, I haven't been part of the debates... this time. I have certainly seen the accusations time and time again during past discussions.

I think that you've articulated the split very well, between those who feel challenged and those who feel unseen. What we see, standing on the outside, is that it is NOT an "either/or" situation but a "both/and" situation; but there doesn't seem any way to say so without being seen as unsupportive.

It's hard to be in the middle this way. It's hard to speak without that reservation, to stop censoring the self and simply talk.

I've spent so many years thinking always of the meaning that will be given to my words, the intent that will be assumed, that I don't honestly know if I am able to simply speak without considering others first.

That's a rather daunting thought,
Cathie

[evolveme]

Originally Posted by Bit

Dear Sister Femme,

{{{{{{{{{{{{Julie}}}}}}}}}}}}} Thank you. And I love you, too.

You've articulated it perfectly. I haven't seen the accusations but then, I haven't been part of the debates... this time. I have certainly seen the accusations time and time again during past discussions.

I think that you've articulated the split very well, between those who feel challenged and those who feel unseen. What we see, standing on the outside, is that it is NOT an "either/or" situation but a "both/and" situation; but there doesn't seem any way to say so without being seen as unsupportive.

It's hard to be in the middle this way. It's hard to speak without that reservation, to stop censoring the self and simply talk.

I've spent so many years thinking always of the meaning that will be given to my words, the intent that will be assumed, that I don't honestly know if I am able to simply speak without considering others first.

That's a rather daunting thought,
Cathie

Lovely Bit,

Given that we are primarily socialized to think of others first, to literally seat ourselves last, it is no wonder we have this difficulty when it comes to times like these.

A couple of years ago I was meeting a beautiful girl friend of mine for drinks. She lived in another state and we hardly ever got to see one another. The entire time we were trying to catch up, however, men in the bar/restaurant, and one in particular, were/was interrupting us, attempting to dominate the conversation for attention. Both of us being the very Southern and feminine women that we are continued to smile wanly but permit them.

Finally, I'd had enough.

I said to the most frequent of these men (I interrupted him, in fact):

"Listen, we have been socialized and conditioned all of our sweet little lives to permit you to take up our space. To interrupt us. We're done with that business. Get lost."

I actually felt terribly guilty for possibly having hurt his feelings. And my friend did too. But we both laughed each time a man approached that I held up my hand and said, "No, back!"

I'm a little bit almost finally able to do that. To just say what I think. To go, No, back! whenever I need to and not worry about "his" feelings. Because I have allowed mine to be just as important.

[Bit]

Dear Femme Poodle,

Once you took her off ignore--you're cracking me up! And that's one of the things I love about you, that sense of humor and wry acknowledgment that go hand in leash, so to speak.

I think, actually, that a sense of humor like that might be a hallmark of Femmes... have you found it to be so? I know in me it's a response to The Life Invisible, but even more a response to The Life Queer... We are all of us beings of strength and will, dealing with a world that tries hard to marginalize us and make us disappear.

I hear you and I see you,
Cathie

[little man]

i can learn (and unlearn) here.

[evolveme]

Originally Posted by little man

i can learn (and unlearn) here.

Dear Wil,

You have long been one of our best and greatest allies.

Your sincerity and deep consideration are unmatched.

I have so much gratitude for You.

Love,

e

[SuperFemme]

Does anybody think that we, as Femmes are guilty of contributing to the male centric way of things?

Do we judge each other harshly? If so, how can we overcome?

[evolveme]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Does anybody think that we, as Femmes are guilty of contributing to the male centric way of things?

Do we judge each other harshly? If so, how can we overcome?

Yes, I absolutely own and allow that I am guilty. But again, I am seeing this as "masculine-centric" rather than simply male-centric. When we call it male-centric, we're throwing our transguys and male-id'd fellas under the bus, and it's also patently unfair because of the ways that butch women, i.e., masculine females, inherently dominate our spaces as well. Don't misread me, although I may have seemed to have a certain "side" in these debates, I do not have a "side" for/against anyone. I Love ALL of These Groups. I literally and motherfucking do.

But here are the ways I see me playing into the masculine-centrism:

- I am always on the ready to call out transphobia (usually in the form of transguyphobia) or to speak up for the way that female id'd butches are not being seen (bc I have also done this), but am less likely to call out ways that I may see femmes being denigrated.

Usually it is because I either wait for someone else to weigh in on the subject, or because I actually believe that what a particular femme has done is distasteful and does not speak to Me, Julie, This Femme. Well, so motherfucking what?

Yes, I am sometimes guilty of judging other femmes harshly.

For example, if a femme posts in a certain font (pink) and is always serving up virtual cupcakes and tea, I am less likely (read: not at all) to listen to what she has to say. I WILL skip over her. And not because the font is hard to read (it is) but because it is "too girly" and that reads as "too ridiculous."

[Bit]

Originally Posted by little man

i can learn (and unlearn) here.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Wil}}}}}}}}}}}}}} I've never found you to be anything other than supportive.

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Does anybody think that we, as Femmes are guilty of contributing to the male centric way of things?

Do we judge each other harshly? If so, how can we overcome?

I've experienced that. Interestingly enough, the times in the past when I have felt judged have been when other Femmes have tried to take away my rights to speak to and about female-identified Butches. The mechanism has usually been that I say something inclusive of all Butches, OR I say something about one group of Butches without painstakingly referencing all the other groups of Butches--and then I am arbitrarily branded as erasing and devaluing female identified Butches.

The effect of this has been to make me APPEAR to be enforcing male-centric standards on our community, because people have loudly tarred me with that brush. The truth is that in a weird and twisted kind of way, the people who have insisted that I am holding up male-centric standards have actually done it themselves by bringing it up in the first place and plastering it all over me when I wanted nothing to do with it and was deliberately, carefully avoiding it.

I suppose the problem is that some people cannot see past the "scarcity model" of thinking, and believe whole-heartedly that there is only one kind of recognition and it's limited; therefore, they seem to believe that if a person is recognizing male-identified Butches they are automatically erasing female-identified Butches, and vice versa. (I believe this is the root of the division in the Butch community even now.)

I say there is enough attention and recognition to go around. Both male and female identified Butches are valuable members of our community and deserve recognition--just as Transmen are valued and deserve recognition.

But what has happened is that in actual practice, no one hears me. From being a strong, deeply thoughtful, analytical, articulate, and valued ally of all three groups, I have been reduced to a caricature of unthinking prejudice--and so I am silenced.

[Mister Bent]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Does anybody think that we, as Femmes are guilty of contributing to the male centric way of things?

Do we judge each other harshly? If so, how can we overcome?

Ok, well, I can't speak from that "we" (as femmes) place, but I can say that maybe sometimes yes, you do contribute to masculine-centrism.

As a matter of conditioning (as e described above).

As a matter of necessity in your support of the fragile creature that is masculine.

I utilize masculine here because we all of us who fall under the butch* portion of the name of this site, and others, share some similar qualities. I don't care what anyone says, we are fragile ego'ed creatures. We need soothing, stroking and reassuring. We need to have our masculinity fluffed.

We are, in short, somewhat pathetic. All of us, what with our noise about our "natural levels of testosterone" and our ridiculous "knightly" ways, posture strong and resilient when the fact is, we would have difficulty pressing on if it weren't for your support. In putting you in that position, in accepting that love and nurturing you offer us, we smother you.

While butch, just as femme, stands alone as an identity (not "half of something") I wouldn't be who I am today if it weren't for you. I am ever thankful when you, one or many or all of you, stand behind, beside or in front of me in some struggle, but sometimes I think that has placed you solely in a supporting role. And everyone of us knows, femme is so much larger than that.


*Butch, man, transman, bulldyke, bulldagger, transbutch, etc.

[Tommi]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Does anybody think that we, as Femmes are guilty of contributing to the male centric way of things?

Do we judge each other harshly? If so, how can we overcome?

Echo, echo echo....listening in..Learning in the midst of life.

[hippieflowergirl]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Does anybody think that we, as Femmes are guilty of contributing to the male centric way of things?

Do we judge each other harshly? If so, how can we overcome?

i dont think i'm guilty of defining the way male/masculine identified persons do the business of their lives, whether i agree with how they do it or not. could be wrong tho'.

if ANY person wants to do the "world domination" attitude thing i dont feel any need to participate in their delusions of grandeur. i'd rather snicker to myself from the sidelines or slap them down in my own special ways.

do we judge one another in harshly? oh hell yes.

my "at home politics" and my "world politics" are so different as to be two distinct realities. i'm not at all confused about them and neither is any Lover who wants more than a passing chance with me.

if i choose to use pink fonts, to wear maribu and lace, to fuck myself with a hello kitty vibrator or any other so-called "girly" behavior and someone thinks i'm less intelligent or that i'm doing such things "for" someone else they can suck my dick (she said delicately).

i'm swamped with paraphernalia that extols whatever measurable intelligence i've managed to exhibit as well as my professional success over the long term. i'm a damn smart bitch and i'm also damn submissive in intimate situations. i'm also a fairly decent human being. the fact that i like to be held down and fucked like an expensive whore or that i live and breathe my Lover's desires when we find we have mutual free time and opportunity has nothing to do with my intelligence or my ability to take care of my car and home maintenance or to de-worm the cat without help from a Guy.

i choose the girly things FOR me, no one else. whenever i've decided to be without Lovers i didnt stop with the girly stuff. it's MY stuff. it's ME. it's not an act for someone else.

my lesbian friends used to ream me for being myself all the time. we're not friends anymore. if my femme friends begin to do the same i'll happily do without them as well. i love my friends but without them, i'm just fine.

in case it needs to be said, i'm not getting my temper on or anything. i just wanted to answer this (very valid) question from well within my own space.

[apretty]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Does anybody think that we, as Femmes are guilty of contributing to the male centric way of things?

Do we judge each other harshly? If so, how can we overcome?

we're all responsible for the misogyny of a space--i don't think any one of us born/conditioned to be *female* in this society can escape some level of internalized xyz-phobia.

specifically, what i find most troubling is this femme- *sublimation* of herself to/for 'the masculine' as she devalues the female (or possibly just *femme*, case depending) while celebrating the masculine (male case depending). and not so suddenly we're all unwilling or not, participants even if our only participation was being a witness.

-i shall return-

[julieisafemme]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Does anybody think that we, as Femmes are guilty of contributing to the male centric way of things?

Do we judge each other harshly? If so, how can we overcome?

I am using your post super duper Femme to write my own letter to the baby femme that is me. We hear about baby butches a lot. I am a baby femme at the ripe old age of 43! Anyway this is me writing to the new fresh femme me. Yes this is all about me. Hee hee.

Dear Baby Femme-

Why are you scared of femmes? Why do you feel like you are back in the sixth grade? Why are you intimidated by someone who identifies as a high femme? I think it is because you feel less than. I think it is coming from inside and not how anyone else identifies. Can you see that? Can you see that creating hierarchies is bad for you?

I know you feel like a big loser sometimes because you are new. I know you feel defined by others because your first and only partner is a transmasculine butch. It's ok for you to identify and call yourself whatever you like.

It's scary to be in a group of women. That has sometimes not gone so well for you in the past. I know it is easier to focus on the masculine beings in your midst.

I know you feel out of place in a group of femmes without the straight married mom mask you used to wear. It is just another aspect of coming out. Maybe life can be more now than just talking about kids, vacations, home renovations and other things that never interested you in the first place. I know you have seen how exciting it is to be around people who talk about ideas instead of things.

Don't judge yourself so much. Take a chance. Put yourself out there. You can't hide behind your wall forever. Or I guess you can but look at all the wonderful things that have happened since you have taken it down, just a little bit at a time!

Love You very very much my sweet baby femme.

Julie

[always2late]

I think we do judge each other harshly. In fact, I put forth that, at times, we judge ourselves and our sisters more harshly than any "outside" source. How often are we prone to "label" someone else..and yet become indignant when we are labeled? A straight friend once told me "Women do not dress for men, they dress for other women." And that shocked me somewhat. But when I examined it, I found it to be quite true. Why are we so eager to pass judgement, good or bad, on each other?

[friskyfemme]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Does anybody think that we, as Femmes are guilty of contributing to the male centric way of things?

Do we judge each other harshly? If so, how can we overcome?

Sisters,

I have for many years struggled to maintain femme friends. Mainly, because of their preoccupation with butches. For some strange reason, femmes (I've known) can' t seem to have validity or fun with other femmes unless we're with our dates or flirting with guys. I have alot of 'straight' gfs as a result. They don't seem to have the same limitations. However, the component we don't share is sexual preference. It is truly difficult for my 'straight gal pals' to understand that a feminine femme is not straight.
I am who I am for me. I struggled through years of fighting my femininity, due a history of rape. I blamed myself for years. I thought femininess meant fragile and subserveant.
I rejected all the things I loved that were frilly, fluffy, 'girly'. But, as I past that '40' mark I realized I didn't care to live under anyone else's definition. I was reborn to 'all femme', I like long bathes, 'my femme day' (1day a week to pamper myself), hiking in nature, or camping out. I am more that just a pretty face and so areall of us! I glad to see some commaradity here.

[imperfect_cupcake]

I just wanted to put in this photo, just published today about steel workers in Sheffield during WWII...

This picture really speaks to me about how *I* am feminine and the things *I* enjoy. And that - I know the picture is staged for the journalist of the time - but that she is dressed the way she is, with heels, doing something she loves and supporting her family by doing so - and contributing to the needs asked of her...

few things make me feel "right on sistah!" but this pic really does.



I don't think of this job as masculine and therefor more valued. I think of the unacceptance of femininity to BE there and how hard it is to be taken seriously when I do the same thing (well, not fixing a tank. though my god, I would LOVE to) wearing my own femininity.

One of the biggest achievements, for me, was changing the bearings in a 4x4 drifeshaft, in the jungle, and not cutting my nails to do it. and I didn't break one. And I wore daisy flip flops. my symbols of femininity while I do something someone thinks I shouldn't be doing, while I'm doing it, is my happy "fuck you. I'm all fluffy a cute and I can do it better than you can, @sshole." to those it seems bizzare to.

and she's not all pin up about it either. rock!

[Bit]

Originally Posted by evolveme

Lovely Bit,

Given that we are primarily socialized to think of others first, to literally seat ourselves last, it is no wonder we have this difficulty when it comes to times like these.

Yikes e, lol..... I forgot how hard it was for me to learn to sit down before the Butch!!! And yanno... I can still only do it in restaurants.

Originally Posted by evolveme

The entire time we were trying to catch up, however, men in the bar/restaurant, and one in particular, were/was interrupting us, attempting to dominate the conversation for attention. Both of us being the very Southern and feminine women that we are continued to smile wanly but permit them.

I soooooo completely understand. It is SO HARD to break through the conditioning that we have to be polite, isn't it?

I bet you would have had exactly the same reaction had they been women. That's happened to me more than once, and although the unwanted attention has not been sexual, it has still been very MUCH unwanted.

Originally Posted by evolveme

I actually felt terribly guilty for possibly having hurt his feelings. And my friend did too. But we both laughed each time a man approached that I held up my hand and said, "No, back!"

I'm a little bit almost finally able to do that. To just say what I think. To go, No, back! whenever I need to and not worry about "his" feelings. Because I have allowed mine to be just as important.

I think that I am coming to that also, although not quite so literally. What I tend to do is to avoid people, or to leave....

.......unless, of course, they are people I care about. That's the rub, eh? Because I care about Butches and Transmen... it's one thing to stop being unnecessarily polite to strangers. It's another to stop caring about Butches and Transmen..............

..............you caught that, I'm sure. I caught it as the thought came out of my head. Since when does politeness equal caring? Am I required to be self-effacing enough to accept any kind of intrusion, simply to be seen as caring? Am I required to seat myself last at the table (I can hear half the world's Butches cringing, lol, can't you?) simply to be considered properly supportive?

It's a lot of food for thought,
Cathie

[SuperFemme]

In reading e and Bit's posts I had a thought.

Is the expected demur and polite veneer used as a way to silence us?

[little man]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

In reading e and Bit's posts I had a thought.

Is the expected demur and polite veneer used as a way to silence us?

i think, perhaps, it is more emblematic of "knowing your place" and being in it.