Is Marriage for you?

[MsTinkerbelly]

As some of you know I post a whole lot of updates regarding equal marriage in our country and elsewhere in the world. So if tomorrow you were told that you could get married, would you want to? Why or why not?

All I ask is that you (collective you) be respectful to each other and our points of view.

I'll be back later...

[clay]

hi MsTinker:
Thanks for this thread...great idea!


If I was told tomorrow I could get married, would I want to? Why or why not?
Having that same privilege/right as all others in society would be awesome in and of itself...for a number of reasons. All I have ever wanted was for everyone to be treated equally!
I would love to be married with equal rights/privileges....and to be recognized as such! Being able to live life without discretion, phobias, anger, and hate would be ideal!
However, on the opposite side of the coin, "marriage" doesn't "guarantee" us anything. By that I mean, when I am coupled, I want our hearts to bind one another with the strings of love, committment, fidelity, honesty, and such..NOT a "piece of paper". The freedom to be individuals yet remaining committed, one to the other.....by love..by choice...am I making sense...lol..
Looking forward to all the posts. Have an awesome day! Clay
PS I would love to be able to enjoy all the perks and privileges that come with marriage (as stated by Tawse) in so far as marriage in that respect.
I also agree with Novela's post as well. My deceased partner & I had 15 wonderful years, and would have been married had our state recognized the union! But we were so much more committed in our hearts and bound for life...except death took her away from me. Ahh but I digress.

[Tawse]

We got married in Canada in 2007 and I can't wait for it to become legal across the states.

Why?

Strictly Financial and Legal reasons. Hospital visitations, Next of Kin rights, Tax deductions, Insurance benefits, Pension benefits, SSI benefits, etc... My wife and I deserve them just as much as Joe Blow Straight Guy in the office next door.

[Novelafemme]

My partner and I are getting married in March...eep, only 5 weeks left! We had originally planned to get legally married in NYC but we weren't there long enough...there needs to be 24 hours in between your license application and the ceremony. Now that Prop 8 has been overturned in CA we will most likely take a road trip to Long Beach and go the the justice of the peace there. It is very important to her to be legally married in the eyes of the law somewhere, me...not so much since I feel the commitment is in one's mind and heart. We are having a commitment ceremony here in Tucson at our home and her father will be the one marrying us, which makes my heart melt to even think about.

Clay is exactly right. Marriage is never a guarantee of life long happiness and companionship. Look at the lesbian couple who was the first same sex couple in CA to be legally wed. They just filed for divorce after being together for 15 years! People grow and change and move in different directions. That's just life. But when you meet your soul mate and you know it is meant to be, the path you travel together just makes sense and you feel blessed to be on it with your chosen partner. At least that's how I feel.

[Tawse]

for some people.. they can stay with someone forever as long as they don't feel legally tied to that person. As soon as you have the legal bonds - they feel suffocated.


It's cool watching the way different people react to different things.

[Novelafemme]

Originally Posted by Tawse

for some people.. they can stay with someone forever as long as they don't feel legally tied to that person. As soon as you have the legal bonds - they feel suffocated.


It's cool watching the way different people react to different things.

Exactly, Tawse. I had this conversation with my sister when we were in NYC a few weeks back. She has been with her partner for 26 years and they are getting legally married tomorrow at their town hall. She was explaining that marriage was just never really an option for her. It felt too conventional, traditional, confining, doomed, lol. Since she has had cancer her outlook has done a 360. She wrote me this morning and said she thinks tomorrow is going to take she and Michael to a whole different level emotionally and spiritually and she is super excited about that.

I will say that the entire 15+ years I was married it never felt quite "right". And while I couldn't put my finger on what was identifiably wrong, it actually made me heart sick to think that the reality I was living then was all it would ever be in terms of intimacy and partnership. But, I felt like I had made a deal with the devil and I was in it forever. Thank goodness I finally realized I had options and that the world wouldn't end if I spoke up and made my unhappiness known.

[Rockinonahigh]

I beleave marriage is great,but its not a garentee of happyness nor being a life time commitment to some people.That being said I also think that to many folks rush into marriage with out takeing the time to really get to know the person they are commiting a lifetime to,so time should be taken t really get to know who you are contemplateing marriage with.Lets face it when the blush falls from the bloom there is the real life of the ebb and flow of of a long term relationship should be built over time by also being each thers best friends before anything else so a solid foundation is there,I am always wary of a fast pace relationship that leads to the alter,its not to say it cant be good and do work out,but imho its not a everyday thing.MY grand parrents courted for several years and thay had a long term loveing marriage built on love,trust,compatablity and realiseing how to just live life with humor.I would like that kind of relationship but it has not happened...yet.

[Gráinne]

I don't see myself getting married again, as I love having a (close to) empty nest and don't really want to merge my living quarters with a partner. I recognize that that's an unusual arrangement in this community, as most partners do seem to move towards living together/marriage. I am more tempermentally built to live alone, though. Still, I can't say "never"!

Having said all that, of course it should be an option for any couple, providing both are consenting adults of age. I really see all the controversy as much like the fighting over interracial marriage before 1967. I'd like to see America go to an England or Canada-like system. As I understand it, ALL marriages have to be carried out in a civil court (not just as an option, as it is here). Then, the religious church service is optional, but you are married by the civil authorities. That way, churches that don't want gay marriage don't have to do it. It's really a human rights issue more than a moral one.

[Ciaran]

Originally Posted by claybaby

If I was told tomorrow I could get married, would I want to? Why or why not?
Having that same privilege/right as all others in society would be awesome in and of itself...for a number of reasons.

Understand what you are saying Clay but I don't think awesome is the right word in the context - same rights as others should be expected / normal.

[LaneyDoll]

I got married when I was 24. Now, I am 38 and have been fighting for a divorce for much longer than I care to admit. It is exhausting to both my time and energy.

Hopefully I will be single again soon. And I am in a relationship with someone. But do I want to get married? Not at this time. It is easy to fall in love & get married-much harder to fall out of love & get divorced.

Do I see the benefits of marriage? Yes. But they do not apply/affect me to the extent that they do others. My children have a father so they are "ok" if I am gone. My partner & I each have health insurance. I don't have much of monetary value (ie home etc) so that is not an issue. The other issues might be a concern but not at this point in my life.

My partner is twelve years younger than me (38 to 26). So, I am barely thinking of the long-term financial benefits. And I am fairly certain that he is not either-right now, he is focused on school Additionally, we have a D/s relationship that, in our eyes, is far more committed that marriage.

I absolutely support the right to marriage for everyone but for me, marriage is not a concern at this time.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

As some of you know I post a whole lot of updates regarding equal marriage in our country and elsewhere in the world. So if tomorrow you were told that you could get married, would you want to? Why or why not?

All I ask is that you (collective you) be respectful to each other and our points of view.

I'll be back later...

I am in my 2nd Marriage; the first one was to my daughter's father, and (the last one I will ever be in) now with my Kasey. When I say the last one I mean it 100%. Should Kasey leave me, or should she pass before me, I will not marry again.

I hear people (general people) say that it is just a piece of paper...in my opinion if they get married believing that statement they have no business being married. For "me" marriage is HUGE! You tell another person that for better or for worse, bedhead, bad breath, blah, blah, blah, that you are going to work it out day after day, week after week, year after year, because you have chosen to be here in this reality with them. There are days when I wish my Kasey would go to ....well I'm sure you get it. I'm sure there are days that if I wandered into traffic there would be no tears for her either. The thing is, I have sworn before my diety, my family and friends, and before my Kasey, that when the going gets rough it will still be the two of us standing there side by side against the world. That MEANS something.

Marriage also affords the greatest protections for a family...no notarized documents, power of attorney's, or wills are going to stop someone truely determined from taking everything your partner has left you when you go. Marriage changes that...no one has EVER asked me to see my marriage certificate when I have to do something legal for Kasey, but they did when it was a Domestic Partnership.

I don't want to just ramble here...I am truely interested in what everyone has to say, and I enjoy reading your posts and hearing where you are coming from.

[JAGG]

Marriage is for me. When I find that femme who understands what love and trust and loyalty and devotion mean , that 1 special girl who lives her life with integrity morals and standards, I will put a ring on her finger , and share a beautiful life , full of love and adventures.

[aishah]

there wasn't an option that fully represented my situation but i chose "alternate joining" (i wasn't certain if you meant an alternate legal joining, like a domestic partnership or common law situation, or a non-legally-binding commitment).

i have two partners. i am married-but-not-legally to both, which means for us that we've taken vows and committed to each other. i've exchanged rings with my butch (this week!) and been collared by my other partner (and given him a ring, several years ago), who i'm in a d/s relationship with. i have a queer spousal relationship with both partners in addition to our butch/femme and dominant/submissive dynamics. i haven't had an elaborate ceremony with either, though i would like to. rick and i are planning an actual collaring ceremony at some point in the future. chris and i have gone back and forth on whether we'd like to have some sort of wedding ceremony once we are all living together. in both cases, at this point, the ceremonies themselves are just formalities for us.

as far as legal realities, chris and i cannot get legally married because we don't live in a state with same-sex marriage and he isn't far enough into his transition to change his gender on his id (and greyson's post listed well all the reasons why even if he could the whole situation is just fucked up and hypocritical). rick and i could get legally married. i won't marry one of my partners legally and not the other because i am committed to both and i'm frankly just really fed up and angry with the fact that marriage for queer/trans and poly couples and families is really not an option. the whole anti-poly and anti-queer/trans marriage culture is really upsetting to me.

on a practical level, there would be some benefits to legal marriage - sharing health insurance (which i don't have but could get if i were married to one or both of them), tax benefits, veterans and social security benefits (both my partners are veterans and one is close to retirement) and potentially disability benefits if i ever end up getting them, work benefits, and medical benefits if one of us is sick or dying. there would also be some drawbacks - chris and i have a lot of student loan debt, rick has credit card debt, we all maintain mostly separate finances and like it that way.

IF everything else was equal - the finances weren't a huge barrier, polyamorous and queer marriages were legal everywhere, etc. - i'd marry them both legally tomorrow if i could. but even if queer marriage becomes legal in kansas in my lifetime, i seriously doubt polygamy will. rick, who has been married before, is not really interested in getting legally married again; chris is definitely interested in getting legally married but happy to keep things the way they are now because of the lack of equality for queer and polyamorous relationships.

that said - i'm happy with the way things are now. where i am from most people don't get married because there is a horribly high rate of domestic violence (along with virtually everyone living under the poverty line and a lot of substance abuse) so i didn't grow up in a culture where legal marriage was normal. it's much easier to leave an abusive relationship and get your kids out of it if you're not legally married. i never saw a happily married couple til i met my friends anna and dawn, who are lesbian and have been married 13 years (non-legally because they live in a state where it's illegal). when i was little my mom made me promise i would never get married, or at least wait til i was 40 and had a career and my own life and then i could if i really really really really felt i had to. so i've always felt pressured NOT to marry which is the opposite of a lot of my friends (especially other muslims i know and folks around my age - mid-twenties).

[aishah]

another issue for us is religious - i'm a muslim who goes to a ucc church and i'm married to a secular jew and a buddhist. they would be willing to have religious marriage ceremonies with me, and i'm good friends with an imam who does same-sex nikahs (muslim marriage ceremonies) in the u.s. and canada (he is one of only a handful of imams in the world who will do this - i witnessed him perform a nikah for a lesbian couple and it was a very powerful experience). but he does not approve of polyandry. likewise, the church i attend is pretty accepting and my pastor knows me pretty well but i seriously doubt he'd be willing to perform a ceremony for me, knowing that i am poly - the ucc is queer-friendly and doesn't exclude poly folks in the congregation but they are very monogamy-centered officially (though a friend of mine who is a poly ucc minister and i are trying to get together to find out more about the church hierarchy where ceremonies are concerned). so if we were to do a ceremony i would probably have a pagan or buddhist friend perform a ceremony i design myself, and it would be in the community but outside of my places of worship.

[MsTinkerbelly]

I am home on the iPad which won't let me quote so I'll try to make sense when I mention someone else's post.

I am not a fan of "Marriage" in particular, although for "me" I have never felt that sense of deep commitment, even in the Domestic Partnership that my Kasey and I had, without legal binding marriage. Novelafemme said that her partner needed to have the legal ceremony...I also needed that to make my union feel as valid as any other.

I am a firm believer that marriage should be civil joinings and Church marriage (two separate entities) as in some other countries. Those that want a legal equal partnership could just be joined for that purpose, and those that wanted to take it a step further could do so...does that make sense?

[Sparx1_1]

I've been married twice.
Once to the wrong person and once to the right person.

Getting married is not that big a deal ... it's finding the right person to get married to - then it's just something you can't not do.

[Ciaran]

I wouldn't rule out marriage per se but what I would rule out, from a personal perspective is a "conventional" marriage, whether straight or gay. By this comment, I mean that I never want to live 24/7 with a partner as I value time alone i.e. I could do 24/5 or something along those lines or live in separate condos in the same building or in nearby homes .... just not 24/7.

I'm certainly not alone in my thinking on this and the more"unconventional" is gradually becoming the conventional.

[chai~]

Originally Posted by Ciaran

I wouldn't rule out marriage per se but what I would rule out, from a personal perspective is a "conventional" marriage, whether straight or gay. By this comment, I mean that I never want to live 24/7 with a partner as I value time alone i.e. I could do 24/5 or something along those lines or live in separate condos in the same building or in nearby homes .... just not 24/7.

I'm certainly not alone in my thinking on this and the more"unconventional" is gradually becoming the conventional.

I feel this way also, the 24/7 thing.
I used to work with a guy who's wife lived a 1 hour plane ride away, in a neighboring province.
He was in his 50's and I was 17, so I was fascinated by this concept.
He told me it works because he likes to take work home with him, eat cereal for dinner, sit in the dark with only a lamp on, and pace the room and think. He liked having his space to ponder his life. He also liked being able to "miss" his wife, and knew he could be flying to see her for the weekend, or she would be flying in. They took turns.

I thought it was the best idea EVER!!!!
The drag of the everyday can get to be just that, a drag.
On the weekend, I tend to be more relaxed and wanting to play.
Let's do a movie, go out to dinner, visit friends etc.
Not, It's your turn to take out the garbage, I cleaned the litter box...why do you leave your socks on the floor when the basket is right there!!!! Blah blah blah!!!!

To me, it would be always date night!!!

I guess the immediate idea of marriage, living together, eating together, groceries together, being with someone ALL the time, is just too much for me.

I am luckier than I know, being able to have a partner on my health care insurance, on my emergency call list, etc. I am SO lucky.

Come to Canada everyone, we might have some cookies, but we do have a lot of other things!

[LaneyDoll]

Originally Posted by chai~

I thought it was the best idea EVER!!!!
The drag of the everyday can get to be just that, a drag.
On the weekend, I tend to be more relaxed and wanting to play.
Let's do a movie, go out to dinner, visit friends etc.
Not, It's your turn to take out the garbage, I cleaned the litter box...why do you leave your socks on the floor when the basket is right there!!!! Blah blah blah!!!!

To me, it would be always date night!!!

I like the way you stated this. Sun-Thurs, I am in full-blown, kid-wrangling mode. I leave work, pick up kids, run necessary errands, go home, do homework, do housework, make sure showers are taken & clothes laid out for the next day. And, at some point in the day, I try to have a little "me" time.

Honestly, I think that my life can be a circus.

I understand that there are people out there who would gladly be part of that in exchange for an always quiet house, always eating alone, going to bed alone. But I would never want anyone to think I was looking for a maid, a parent, a tutor, a fellow ringleader etc when what I really wanted was a partner.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Originally Posted by Ciaran

I wouldn't rule out marriage per se but what I would rule out, from a personal perspective is a "conventional" marriage, whether straight or gay. By this comment, I mean that I never want to live 24/7 with a partner as I value time alone i.e. I could do 24/5 or something along those lines or live in separate condos in the same building or in nearby homes .... just not 24/7.

I'm certainly not alone in my thinking on this and the more"unconventional" is gradually becoming the conventional.

I think this would be the ideal situation...I love living with Kasey and the family we have made...I love coming home to her, and watching her sleep...but I would LOVE to have a couple of days a week, month, whatever to myself. I crave alone time, and now that she works from home I get very little.