The Internet and the Death of Privacy

[Nat]

I remember the days when deleting an account or a blog was enough to disappear it from the Internet, but it appears those days are at a close. I was listening to a podcast regarding doctor/therapist/patient privacy on the Internet and how providers and patients both often google each other now- whether or not they disclose their findings, the things they read can affect diagnoses.

In the book 1984, George Orwell imagined a world where the government watched each person's every move. Instead, many of us have put our lives - even very personal parts of our personal lives - into a permanent record with a seemingly endless memory. Even in cases where the information can be deleted, the deep web searches can find it. Also there's the issue of Internet gossip and trolls who post damaging info on the internet about other people that can never really be erased.

So, here's a thread for discussion about the changing rules of Internet privacy.

And a little starter: have you googled yourself - your real name - and found that there is information out there about you that has the capacity to affect your future employment?

Have you found ways to combat it?

[Medusa]

This is a great thread

I have a lot to add here and will be back in just a bit.

[UofMfan]

Great thread.

I think privacy as we know it is quickly disappearing. New technology, this new generation, have blurred the line we (you know the general old we) have been using as a standard for decades.

Today people tweet their every move, no matter how personal or inconsequential it is. Facebook statuses let us all know what we and our "friends" are up to. We post pictures of our family and personal events without considering how these may affect future employment (or other) prospects. We posts pictures of ourselves that in the past we would have only shared with close friends when they came by to visit and we opened out photo albums.

I try to keep these things in mind, yet it is so easy to get caught up in the hoopla of it all. Share, share and share. It is like a major popularity contest at times. But I do try to keep my privacy settings in FB to the max, and although I post on here often, there is very little of my private life that you can read here and what you do read, I have chosen carefully to share.

Privacy is no longer defined by the standards I grep up with. Everyday I read something about how Facebook keeps pushing those standards so that by now it is hard to even know what privacy is. Of course Google and other sites are continuously gathering our personal information so we can be flooded by ads that are specifically targeted for us according to the information collected. Most sites do this, so it is becoming more difficult to 'surf" under the radar if you will.

The government does it, corporations do it, everyone is looking to tap into this plethora of information that most of the time we willingly supply to these sites.

If you Google something having to do with Butch/Femme or a topic discussed on here, you will see that particular discussion show up in your results. And yes, I have Googled myself, with my real name, and I am Ok with has come up so far. Of course the more time that passes and the more active I am online the more I need to check to see what is out there.

I try to combat it as best as I can by being diligent and careful when I am online. I am not always successful, and like I mentioned before, I get caught up on the frenzy of it all and I throw caution to the wind, sometimes.

[DapperButch]

Great thread, Nat.

I want to speak to the therapist issue (b/c I am one and this is a big concern of mine).

I googled myself not too long ago and found a section where my parents and sister's names were listed as relatives. I see that my address and also a picture of my house can be seen (even though my home number is unpublished).

My concern client wise is for their treatment (as you suggested). The reason therapists don't (or shouldn't) share too much about their personal lives is that the "stories" clients create in their minds about the therapist is useful fodder for their treatment. VERY useful fodder. It can tell them so much about themselves and their perceptions.

Additionally, depending upon the information one has on their therapist, even just a small tidbit, can create all kinds of assumptions about a therapist's belief system, which could make the client uncomfortable discussing certain topics if they fear judgement from the therapist. For example, if the google said I was Republican (which I am not), based on a person's perception of Republicans, people could assume all sorts of things (like that I am a conservative Christian, for example).

Anyway, it is disconcerting to say the least. I actually make lots of adjustments in my life due to my work (like not having my picture up on this site which I would like to have, not attending public events if I know a client will be there, I don't have a FaceBook account), so a little thing like google, sucks (especially since I already give up some things I wish I didn't have to in order to give my clients the best treatment I can).

Oh, and I have never googled a client. It feels intrusive.

(for that matter, I rarely google anyone for the same reason).

[Kobi]

I have googled myself before. I have a professional license which is public information, so that info is available. I have found some references to thank yous in books and articles from colleagues which I didnt expect to find.

Like Dapper, I too, have found a site that provides addresses and phone numbers, ages and persons in the household. That was disconcerting considering every address I have had since the 1970's was there.

I dont use fb or twitter or anything else that can blindside me with uninvited attention. After a few threats in child protection cases, I am extremely cautious using the net. It is too easy to track someone if you are so inclined.

I am also a compulsive cookie eraser after having ads specially tailored for me on certain web sites. That felt very bizarre to me.

After one too many crime shows, I am also very cautious when erasing things on my hard drive. I use secure deletion programs and regularly wipe the space as well. When I am totally bored, I have a program that will search the drive to see what info is still recoverable.

There is very little privacy left in the world and on the net without me leaving a digital footprint everywhere I go.

[EnderD_503]

Since I started using the internet I was always concerned about internet privacy.

Since you brought up Orwell, actually dystopian novels are always what comes to my mind when I think about privacy these days, whether on the internet or in real life. Call me paranoid, but I guess I've always just been really careful and at least in the "googling yourself" aspect, it has kind of paid off as far as maintaining my privacy. When I google my birth name, out of 6 or 7 pages of people that come up, only two refer to me, though unless the people knew my history directly they probably wouldn't know it. One is just an article in a newspaper about an award I received for my honours thesis, while the other is a post on a residence page site from my early university days (but because it's so old, when you click the link my comment doesn't even appear anywhere anymore, nor can you see my account apparently...so not too bad). On my chosen name there is nothing either. Like I said, maybe it's crazy paranoia, but I just don't like the idea of people around the world being able to track my info down just by knowing my name.

The only social media I use is twitter and I don't use my real name, so I'm not too concerned about it.

I do think it's crazy that people add their co-workers, bosses etc. to personal facebook pages or twitter. I've generally held that work life and personal life should not mix at all, as you never know when someone is going get offended about something you say or do on one of these pages and how it'll affect your life at work. Also, I think it causes a lot of friendships to go down the drain where people cause drama over something someone said on facebook. Recently a friend of mine was cussed out and "unfriended" by a long time friend of his on facebook for some incredibly stupid...and the situation probably wouldn't have spiralled out of control if it took place irl.

So in general, lack of privacy online has all sorts of negative ramifications. From google selling people's information, to your boss looking at your crazy drunken holiday pictures.

[Linus]

When I first got online (back in 1993/4) and learned about ways to delve into people's networks and such (kinda gray area stuff), I knew quickly that privacy didn't exist. It never does. In Canada, the expectation of keeping data safe is on the gov't and the businesses. In the US, it's more like a wild west feeling.

In both cases, it's up to an individual. I had long ago decided that the only thing that should appear on the Net are the things that someone could learn if they came up to me in person. Add to that my regular persistence at making sure that the computer I used to connect to the Net was secure and that my behaviour was limited to specific trusted sites and... it's all been good.

I've never had an identity compromise in all my time online. I have had fraudulent changes on credit cards due to taxi usage for work when they use the old fashioned credit card slips with the extra carbon in them.

[Nat]

Some opt-out sites:

To request your information be removed from:

Peoplesmart.com
EmailFinder.com
FreePhoneTracer.com
PhoneDetective.com
Archives.com

http://www.peoplesmart.com/?_act=optout

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To remove yourself from whitepages.com

http://www.whitepages.com - search your name, click the "claim & edit" button and request to remove your information.

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To remove yourself from mylife

you can call 888-704-1900 and request to have your information removed

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To remove yourself from beenverified.com

you can try emailing support@beenverified.com and making a request - I have tried this and will update whether they honor it or not.

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The opt-out page for intellius.com requires an image of your driver's license with your photo and driver's license number blocked out:

http://www.intelius.com/optout.php

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To opt out of peoplefinders.com

you have to fill out this pdf http://www.peoplefinders.com/optout-form.pdf

and provide all your previous addresses and then mail the form to them.

I find this kinda scary because it gives them more info than they already have and I don't know if any of these sites can be trusted one bit.

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[UofMfan]

This is an article that shows how much your information is worth. At first you see .01 or .02 cents and think nothing of it, but like the article says, it adds up.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_861829.html

[moxie]

I am a therapist, like DapperButch. Because of that and my professional license being of public record, a lot of my information is available when you Google me. I have had past clients, both adult and child, try to get me to friend them (get me to look them up and friend them) on Facebook because they have tried and they can't find me (which I tell them no and explain why). I have the highest privacy settings on Facebook so that you can only see my picture and any of my personal information if you are my friend. The only picture I have on here anymore is the one in my profile, which you can only see if you are a member.

I have had a lot of friends make fun of me because of my "excessive" need for privacy. I have all of my mail (bills, etc) sent to a PO Box. Occasionally I give out my address for packages to be sent to my apartment but that is it. The only thing my physical address is listed on is my electric/gas and cable bill (because it has to be to get service but they still has PO Box as mailing address) and my driver's license. I do not even have my physical address listed with my employer. I've been like this since the late 90s.

As gar as Googling myself, yes, I have done it. I wanted to know what out there is about me. One of the "interesting" things I have found is a woman, with my same name, in the same general area where I grew up, was busted for prostitution. So, people from my past could think it was me as my last name is not common.

[Medusa]

I'd like to hear folk's thoughts about the "Who visited my profile" feature here.

We have that feature as a fun way to see who's looking. It was meant as a "calling card" to say "Hey, Ebon stopped by your profile today!"

We have talked a couple of times about turning the feature completely off when frustrated with complaints like "I feel unsafe that so-and-so looked at my profile".

What do you think? Would you rather know who visited your profile or would you rather wonder about it?

My thought has always been that whatever is in your profile on this site is fairly "public" info, that there isn't really a reasonable expectation of privacy.

Curious what others think!

[The_Lady_Snow]

Either way sometimes I like to cruise profiles it let's you get to know people a little...

Either way it's no biggie. Thanks for even asking!

[Gentle Tiger]

I like the feature but I wouldn't lose sleep if it were gone.

I can see how someone might not like someone being able to just pop in. Maybe have it as optional feature. And people decide if they want it or not.

[Ebon]

How am I supposed to stalk people with that feature on there?

No seriously though I keep my work and personal life seperate and my Facebook is on lockdown. There are only a few people on Facebook that I am friends with at work. I try to keep my facebook down to people that I interact with on at least a weekly basis. I don't like having Facebook friends that I never talk to. I don't understand the point of that.

[Liam]

I enjoy the feature.

[Random]

I like being able to see who visits me...

You come see me, I'm going to go see you

Then I'm going to see if there is anything of interest to me in what you post and that could lead me to discover a thread that I hadn't noticed before, or someone that has a way with words that makes me want to read more..

I'm a curious kinda femme... I like information..... I like new discoveries...

It's the lazy womans guild to thread stalking..

[Reader]

I think it would be cool to somehow be able to see who has gone into every thread, but I bet it would be a programming nightmare.

[imperfect_cupcake]

I have googled myself. A few years ago it would bring up ONE erotic short story I wrote (about 15 pages in to the search) which used to make me wince; it's not longer there as I think the site has been removed. The rest seemed to prove that women with my name were all either architects or photographers or shoe designers.

When I joined facebook I used a different last name because I work in public service, to ensure employers would not be able to look me up.

as for the rest... I have never filled in forms on line to join anything or any forum etc with my real name. It's always been something silly. I have two email address: one for my emlpoyers or when I look for work or correspond to the government, and one for my daily life. My daily life is a pseudonym, a fun name.

this seems to have taken care of any issues of privacy I might have that would affect employment. the rest I don't really give a shit about.

[ruffryder]

So this topic comes up once again with all the new changes to Facebook. I'm sure you all have opinions. Let's hear it! *bump*bump*bump*

We are all linked to the internet now and the government. Anyone can find us and know what we are doing at any particular time!

So, I'm applying for jobs and the line of work I'm looking at is very public. Everything about me is made public and they want to basically know my life for as far back as it starts, all addresses, friends, acquaintances, aliases, nicknames, websites, etc, etc. So I'm curious as to what they may come across. Low and behold I type in this ID to see what comes up and wow my bfp posts and even the thanks I give to others posts. I was surprised to see this. Because I choose to put myself out there and be a part of this line of work, everything about me should be disclosed. I just sometimes want a bit of privacy especially when it comes to sexual and intimate matters because that shouldn't matter when I apply for a job, but it may to some employers. incredible!

Nothing is safeguarded on the internet anymore and I always hear and must say if you don't want something "shared" on the internet then maybe you should just not post it.

Opinions, comments, perspectives?

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Medusa

I'd like to hear folk's thoughts about the "Who visited my profile" feature here.

We have that feature as a fun way to see who's looking. It was meant as a "calling card" to say "Hey, Ebon stopped by your profile today!"

We have talked a couple of times about turning the feature completely off when frustrated with complaints like "I feel unsafe that so-and-so looked at my profile".

What do you think? Would you rather know who visited your profile or would you rather wonder about it?

My thought has always been that whatever is in your profile on this site is fairly "public" info, that there isn't really a reasonable expectation of privacy.

Curious what others think!

I like the feature. I see it as a calling card, as well.

I would think that it would actually help with keeping the "would be stalkers", away. People realize that it is kind of creepy to be looking at people's profiles repeatedly if you are not friends with them and leaving them messages.