It Hurts Me.

[Firedance]

As a Femme, I love Butches, and I LOVE Butches. But right now I have a bone to pick with some of you.

You are here. You know, we Femme's are only truly seen by those of us who can hear the music of, "The Dance". We are both, inexplicably more fully alive when in the presence of the other, even if we are strangers, even if there is no attraction, and yes, even if we are simply friends.

I can handle being invisible. I have coming out to strangers down to an art form. I have a 30 second, two minute, and 20 minute version of my own gender-education/dynamic-education talk that I deliver to strangers, acquaintances, and friends regularly.

When a Butch walks in the room a part of me can relax. I know there is one person in the room that I don't have to explain my identity to. One person I don't have to educate. One person that can See Me.

Except...

Maybe you don't.


I am sick of Butches who say to me;

"Hey, why don't you go use your charms and get us ___(insert object here)___."

or,

"Hey go work your magic so we don't have to wait."

or,

"Go flirt with that guy so we can get out of here".


No.
No, No, No, and Hell No!


I spend all day every day, verbally and non-verbally telling cis-guys their advances are not welcome. I am friendly, funny, polite, and very, very, firm. I expend great amounts of energy simply asserting my Identity every day and I will not sell out my sexuality or my identity to get you an extra piece of toast!


Yes I know that I will be served more quickly and kindly pretty much everywhere. This is why I step up and handle interactions with ignorant/biased strangers often. I know how hard life is as a Butch and so I happily ease the way when I can. I've got your back. When your friend is taking your picture and tells you to, "Act like a girl. Damn it!" I respond, "She is!" (for my female ID'ed friends). When a stranger looks at you and sneers. I catch their eye and raise my eyebrow, and the smirk on my face let's them know they don't know you, and they have no idea what they are missing out on. In a million other way's I've got your back.

So this is your part of The Dance... Don't ask me to deny who I am. Don't ask me to throw away the identity that I work so diligently to affirm in a world that keeps telling me I doesn't exist. Don't casually, thoughtlessly, dismiss my identity, and dishonor me by implying that my identity is less real than yours, simply because I can "pass" as straight!

I can handle coming out a dozen times a week. I can educate people all week long.

But you?
When YOU don't see me?
That hurts.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To all the Butches who have never, and would never, think of saying such things to a Femme; I thank you. Your strength and respect is what keeps The Dance alive for me.

~Fire.

[JAGG]

Yikes! Sorry that happened to you. I can see why that would tick a person off.

[thedivahrrrself]

I can relate, Fire, and thank you for saying it.

"I can handle being invisible. I have coming out to strangers down to an art form. I have a 30 second, two minute, and 20 minute version of my own gender-education/dynamic-education talk that I deliver to strangers, acquaintances, and friends regularly. "

This made me laugh out loud, because I have the same 3 versions, depending on the audience!

[Apocalipstic]

Sorry this happens to you FD! I have had it happen, but not in a long while. The closer I get to 50, the less I am asked to use my cleavage to get things. Not sure if its respect of my age, or that my Butch/Trans friends know better.

[The_Lady_Snow]

It sucks that these particular butches chose to pimp you out for amenities.

It's pretty gross and you should copy that eloquent fuck you that you shared with us mail it so they know not to do that shit with you or ANY woman again!

[JAGG]

I just thought of something firegal. I will probably get slammed for this but if it ever happens again, turn to the butch who said it and say, you're a WOMEN you go do it yourself. Bet that would crack their face.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by JAGG

I just thought of something firegal. I will probably get slammed for this but if it ever happens again, turn to the butch who said it and say, you're a WOMEN you go do it yourself. Bet that would crack their face.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander!


In other words use your OWN body to get chu some toast!

[Turtle]

To be seen or not to be seen -

Yes, it hurts when we are not seen…and it strikes extra deep when we think the other person should know.

And none of us were born knowing all of this complicated identity business, we learn about it and work through it as we develop into more full wonderful human beings until the day each of us dies…that’s part of what I find so amazing…we keep learning until the moment we die (and maybe even after).

The Planet is wonderful for being a place where we can all mash this stuff around, hearing other ideas, as we figure out what is best for ourselves.

Do I have my moments when I get pissed off or frustrated at other people's unknowingness – yes…and I try to remind myself of the times I have said something dumb or hurtful…I still think nasty things, less often than I used to, but a lot of me moving better in interactions with others has to do with slowing down in my reactions.

I much more appreciate a kind explanation of how I fucked up rather than getting smacked upside the head. I used jump up in people’s shit, but I think the learning and behavior change is more important than the reprimand, so I’ve gone gentle in hope of progress.

I have had friends who would bat their eyelashes to get what they want…or act dumb…or wiggle body parts. I’ve ALWAYS wanted stuff and to be what I consider “boy”…but maybe at different times in my life I have chosen to present as more strongly male and and have been overweight to pre-deflect cis-male judgments, advances, and assumed liberties.

And – there is a certain freedom in an out presentation – this is who I am, like me or not…and some totally natural presentations are not readable as a stereotype – yes? Complicated shit.

Is it nice to be “read” – by the right people, yes. What is that? I think it is being “known” – which includes not having to explain who you are. Does it hurt extra deep when someone you think knows you fucks up? Yes.

I give thanks for the learning and for all the ways people have had my back…and I try to be there for other people in the learning and because we all have needed or will need someone to stick up for us.

Thank you for The Dance, Fire

[Scuba]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

It sucks that these particular butches chose to pimp you out for amenities.

My thoughts exactly **shakes head**

[Apocalipstic]

My apologies for even suggesting some Butches might now know any better and might appreciate guidance rather than anger.

I should have said people.

I think its good to let people know how we want to be treated rather than just being angry. Usually, when we talk about it we realize that the people who supposedly wronged us did not mean to and did not fully understand our boundaries.

[AtLast]

This is so wrong. And it makes this butch angry too.

[Viola]

I've been thinking more, actually any rules with butch femme is scaring me, cause I've never thought about this before...

All that enter my mind is drawn towards butches and that's it...

Forget rules, who cares... I'm into freedom of thought.

so I'm not going to abide by any rules, I'm just going to be me...

who cares who approach who first or second,

if I want to approach I will and or if a butch wants to approach be my guest,

I've really put a lot of thought into this, thread and still am - not sure why.

Um, I never ever been to this type of place that you describe, I've never been to a femme butch hang out offline before.

but still, I'm to the point of saying, I'm me and who cares about rules.

I'm me.

[Beloved]

Originally Posted by thedivahrrrself

I can relate, Fire, and thank you for saying it.

"I can handle being invisible. I have coming out to strangers down to an art form. I have a 30 second, two minute, and 20 minute version of my own gender-education/dynamic-education talk that I deliver to strangers, acquaintances, and friends regularly. "

This made me laugh out loud, because I have the same 3 versions, depending on the audience!

I'd like to hear all of these, please! Or does it need it's own thread?

[JAGG]

Originally Posted by Beloved

I'd like to hear all of these, please! Or does it need it's own thread?

Please don't encourage her..... you will create a monster. Lol

[thedivahrrrself]

Originally Posted by JAGG

Please don't encourage her..... you will create a monster. Lol

LOL Yes, JAGG knows it's hard to pull me down from a soapbox!!



That would be a good thread for the Femme Zone! We all have to be experts in coming out, over and over again, because we are somewhat invisible. I used to don uber-short hair just to try to look more "lesbian" LOL It still didn't work.

[Firedance]

Thanks Jagg.

Honestly the first time it happened it shocked me a little.

The 12th time it happened by the 6th Butch. I had to sit down and write to figure out for myself exactly why it bugged me so much.

And thank you too ladies. It has happened often enough I knew I wasn't the only one who has experienced it!

[Strappie]

Originally Posted by Firedance

I am sick of Butches who say to me;

"Hey, why don't you go use your charms and get us ___(insert object here)___."

or,

"Hey go work your magic so we don't have to wait."

or,

"Go flirt with that guy so we can get out of here".

To me I see absolutely NO RESPECT on the butches part! If hy/shy wants a free drink go find someone to buy it for you. Don't ask your date to exploit herself for you.

I'm honestly furious over what people have done to you!


No.
No, No, No, and Hell No!


I spend all day every day, verbally and non-verbally telling cis-guys their advances are not welcome. I am friendly, funny, polite, and very, very, firm. I expend great amounts of energy simply asserting my Identity every day and I will not sell out my sexuality or my identity to get you an extra piece of toast!

AMEN!!!


So this is your part of The Dance... Don't ask me to deny who I am. Don't ask me to throw away the identity that I work so diligently to affirm in a world that keeps telling me I doesn't exist. Don't casually, thoughtlessly, dismiss my identity, and dishonor me by implying that my identity is less real than yours, simply because I can "pass" as straight!

I can handle coming out a dozen times a week. I can educate people all week long.

But you?
When YOU don't see me?
That hurts.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To all the Butches who have never, and would never, think of saying such things to a Femme; I thank you. Your strength and respect is what keeps The Dance alive for me.

~Fire.

grrrrrrr I'm disgusted!!

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by Firedance

I am sick of Butches who say to me;

"Hey, why don't you go use your charms and get us ___(insert object here)___."

or,

"Hey go work your magic so we don't have to wait."

or,

"Go flirt with that guy so we can get out of here".


No.
No, No, No, and Hell No!


I spend all day every day, verbally and non-verbally telling cis-guys their advances are not welcome. I am friendly, funny, polite, and very, very, firm. I expend great amounts of energy simply asserting my Identity every day and I will not sell out my sexuality or my identity to get you an extra piece of toast!

~Fire.

Wow....honestly, I'd be pretty furious with anyone who asked me to do this....

I also find that I tolerate less and less bullshit as I get older....and I was also probably a smart-mouthed bartender for wayyyyy too long....so I'd probably say, "uh huh, you want me to offer him a blow job and see if I can get you a ham steak?"

Sometimes people need to have it made clear exactly how much of an asshole they are being.

[LaneyDoll]

Originally Posted by Firedance

I am sick of Butches who say to me;

"Hey, why don't you go use your charms and get us ___(insert object here)___."

or,

"Hey go work your magic so we don't have to wait."

or,

"Go flirt with that guy so we can get out of here".

I think the part of this that really bothers me is that you use "butches" (plural) and list multiple examples. So, obviously this has happened more than once, from more than one person. Why would anyone assume that someone can/will "make things happen" and how many other femmes have said butches requested this of?

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Firedance

So this is your part of The Dance... Don't ask me to deny who I am. Don't ask me to throw away the identity that I work so diligently to affirm in a world that keeps telling me I doesn't exist. Don't casually, thoughtlessly, dismiss my identity, and dishonor me by implying that my identity is less real than yours, simply because I can "pass" as straight!

I can handle coming out a dozen times a week. I can educate people all week long.

But you?
When YOU don't see me?
That hurts. ~Fire.

I agree with Snow and Aishah. I think this goes beyond having good manners and generalizing it to everyone. It is specifically about how femmes are treated at times by butches, FTMS, tran guys, other masculine types- and it's not about not opening a door or going up to get a drink for a femme.

I believe what the OP was talking about was dismissing a femme's identity.
And also as Snow says, "pimping women out."