The Femme Continuum: The "Highs" and "Lows" of Visibility

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by apretty

i've experienced more attempts at perpetuating femme-hierarchy when getting to know less attractive and stupid butches.

my experience. me. only.

and to be totally fair--i'm SURE that their attractiveness fell from possibly average to *no way* once they began to offer their unsolicited and absurd insights on high-femme (which i don't think exists and they were sure entailed a demure smile, heels and stockings 24/7), relationships (i'm not a so-called 'natural' submissive because they were ill equipped for someone such as myself), and i could go on...

so, perhaps it's that i find intelligence *highly* sexy that i can't quite separate my disgust of the thoughts from the one doing the thinking--but i have found myself in these situations a few times and it's always presented to me in a way to try to knock me down to their size, like 'i'll fuck you but just so's you know...' trying so hard to mask their insecurity at sitting across from me:

oh, you're very attractive, if a little young... and perhaps not what i normally go for (as fucking IF) and i will do you, though you clearly lack real *experience* so you'd better hold on to your seat, little miss--and normally, i date high femmes--oh what are those? those are femmes who wear nylons and high heels, i have an ex who wore heels every day.... (wistful pause) and skirts--you know those tight skirts? ...yes, that's it--pencil skirt.... (implying that my totally cute outfit isn't drag-enough for the pizza place/diner/hole in the wall) wait. where are you going?"

see? not attractive + stupid = not getting any.

Do you have to embarrass me in public like this?

[apretty]

Originally Posted by UofMfan

Do you have to embarrass me in public like this?

ha! i seriously doubt that's your *first date* style! nice try!!

[Emmy]

In my mind, when someone says 'high femme', for some reason, i think of a glamorous woman from an old movie, from the 40's maybe, wearing satin and complicated hosiery, making smart and quippy conversation. Maybe with finger waves in her hair? It's a nice image. Sorry, I know this is a bit of a random musing on the topic...

[Martina]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I can NOT be the only one on the interwebz who has witnessed a Femme and a male Id'd Butch fall in love. Glitter and unicorns ensue. THEN they break up.
Inevitably, the Femme will come to a thread and switch to using female pronouns and birth names in an attempt to emasculate said Butch.

THAT makes me crazy and is a thousand time worse than being lazy or making a simple mistake.

I'm not the only one? Am I?

LOL. The "glitter and unicorns" got me. Yes, i have seen that. And worse.

[Spirit Dancer]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I can NOT be the only one on the interwebz who has witnessed a Femme and a male Id'd Butch fall in love. Glitter and unicorns ensue. THEN they break up.
Inevitably, the Femme will come to a thread and switch to using female pronouns and birth names in an attempt to emasculate said Butch.

THAT makes me crazy and is a thousand time worse than being lazy or making a simple mistake.

I'm not the only one? Am I?

SF~
I've seen it way too many times, followed by nasty fights or break ups. Then saying it's true they are the same as me down there. It blows my mind and I lose it, my favorite i've heard a few times as of late is hy is a glitter cock. I despise that word, and it just skeeves me. If you view them as a female then why start anything when you know full well they are male id`ed and you won't respect them in their id.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by Spirit Dancer

SF~
I've seen it way too many times, followed by nasty fights or break ups. Then saying it's true they are the same as me down there. It blows my mind and I lose it, my favorite i've heard a few times as of late is hy is a glitter cock. I despise that word, and it just skeeves me. If you view them as a female then why start anything when you know full well they are male id`ed and you won't respect them in their id.

i am misunderstanding. What i have seen is that some femmes have dated a male-ID'd butch, wanting male-ID, not viewing them as female, and then when it was over, cause they were mad at the butches, used female pronouns to disrespect them.

Are you serious? People use glitter cock as a way of calling someone less than in some way? OMG. lol. Let me tell you, i have done some damage with those glitter cocks (hand held).

[betenoire]

How come we can't have a discussion about Femmes without talking about Butches?

[Martina]

Originally Posted by betenoire

How come we can't have a discussion about Femmes without talking about Butches?

i had the same thought, but wtf? i also think part of the discussion was to what degree is this hierarchy, if there is one, reinforced by butches and how do we react to it when it is.

i personally have not gotten much of that from butches. And even not a huge amt from femmes. i don't think it's as big of a deal for us -- the hierarchy.

[SassyLeo]

Originally Posted by apretty

i've experienced more attempts at perpetuating femme-hierarchy when getting to know less attractive and stupid butches.

my experience. me. only.

and to be totally fair--i'm SURE that their attractiveness fell from possibly average to *no way* once they began to offer their unsolicited and absurd insights on high-femme (which i don't think exists and they were sure entailed a demure smile, heels and stockings 24/7), relationships (i'm not a so-called 'natural' submissive because they were ill equipped for someone such as myself), and i could go on...

so, perhaps it's that i find intelligence *highly* sexy that i can't quite separate my disgust of the thoughts from the one doing the thinking--but i have found myself in these situations a few times and it's always presented to me in a way to try to knock me down to their size, like 'i'll fuck you but just so's you know...' trying so hard to mask their insecurity at sitting across from me:

oh, you're very attractive, if a little young... and perhaps not what i normally go for (as fucking IF) and i will do you, though you clearly lack real *experience* so you'd better hold on to your seat, little miss--and normally, i date high femmes--oh what are those? those are femmes who wear nylons and high heels, i have an ex who wore heels every day.... (wistful pause) and skirts--you know those tight skirts? ...yes, that's it--pencil skirt.... (implying that my totally cute outfit isn't drag-enough for the pizza place/diner/hole in the wall) wait. where are you going?"

see? not attractive + stupid = not getting any.

What do you mean you don't do "heels and stockings 24/7"???

[Random]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I wonder what are the ways that Femme's feel umm...femmasculated?
Like how does it look when someone takes a swipe at your femininity?
Because I don't think it looks the same as emasculating.

I think my personal favorite one is..

A particular hand movement I used while fucking someone was *Butch*

*Blink*

gee I didn't know that being concerned about possibly riping someone while getting my hand into them was based on gender id..

silly femme, serious fucking is for butches.. (sarcasm intended)

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by Random

silly femme, serious fucking is for butches.. (sarcasm intended)

Duh. Femmes are supposed to fuck as though they are dialing the phone with wet fingernails.

[AtLast]

ARGH! As I'm reading the thread I am thinking some butches are like this? I think I am really happy with my old nerd, not wrapped-up in butch posturing self! Some of this is just insane and I can't imagine thinking like this!

I'm also understanding more and more why I feel really interrogated sometimes on the first few dates. Makes sense. Total sense!

[The_Lady_Snow]

I love to participate in cunnulingus, I do, I have heard from my peers this makes me not so femme..

I say the hell with that..

oh and yes I said cunnulingus and no I have no gender preference when it comes down to it..

<cleaning gear on in case

[Apocalipstic]

When I think of High Femme, it involves Mary Jane and Cookies.

I don't even know ANY women who wear nylons and pencil skirts 24/7. Zero.
It cracks me up when someone says they are looking for a Femme like that, cause that search is going to lead to dissapointing results!

[ravfem]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

When I think of High Femme, it involves Mary Jane and Cookies.

I don't even know ANY women who wear nylons and pencil skirts 24/7. Zero.
It cracks me up when someone says they are looking for a Femme like that, cause that search is going to lead to dissapointing results!

Wait...i wear mary janes and like cookies....omg, i'm a high femme?! Who knew??

[Martina]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I love to participate in cunnulingus, I do, I have heard from my peers this makes me not so femme..

I say the hell with that..

oh and yes I said cunnulingus and no I have no gender preference when it comes down to it..

<cleaning gear on in case

Thinking of those femmes missing out. Unless this is a true sexual boundary (one just can't imagine doing it), it's amazing to me that anyone would give up all this good stuff up for no better reason than it's not femme????

How sadly self-punishing of someone not to try out something to see if they really like it, but to obey some internalized sexist rule. Boy, that's a case where our gender categories sure aren't liberating. What's next, femme purdah?

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I love to participate in cunnulingus, I do, I have heard from my peers this makes me not so femme..

I say the hell with that..

oh and yes I said cunnulingus and no I have no gender preference when it comes down to it..

<cleaning gear on in case

Me too!

I think it hurts me the most when the shock & awe comes from other Femmes. I tend to keep quiet during gatherings when the convo turns to sexual stuff. Which is kind of sad.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Me too!

I think it hurts me the most when the shock & awe comes from other Femmes. I tend to keep quiet during gatherings when the convo turns to sexual stuff. Which is kind of sad.

Me too and Mee too.

Exept sometimes I just like to spurt out exactly what all I like to do in bed and watch the green foam ooze from their ears.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

Me too and Mee too.

Exept sometimes I just like to spurt out exactly what all I like to do in bed and watch the green foam ooze from their ears.

This made me crack up. Green foam even. teehee

[The_Lady_Snow]

Martina I want to address what you said I just need time to chew on it for a bit.. The reason being is there are folks out there who do not participate in this particular sexual activity due to boundaries their partners have set and such.



On another note..

Being a femme who enjoys having her cock sucked, has brought the *value* of my femme into questions by both gender spectrums....