Infidelity

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Insurance companies pay for Viagra and most pharmacies carry it.
The same cannot be said for birth control, the morning after pill, etc.
I've yet to hear of a flacid penis be a pre-existing condition, or beating ones wife be a pre-existing condition.
I HAVE heard of childbirth and being a victim of DV justified as reason to deny health coverage.

I guess my point is that double standards run rampant, but not usually in the favor of women.

Dylan using married queers who are divorcing is almost comical considering the incredibly small percentage of queers who are allowed to get married and how very new it is.

I absolutely see your point about women, here. I was speaking about street Viagra and sexual addictions. And a lot could be discussed about street T here, as well. It isn't used solely by TG individuals to appear more masculine!! Health-care issues surrounding women do demonstrate some very negative and actually, abusive (abuse as in not covering female related conditions) treatment of women.

Your point about divorcing queers is well taken. Have to go back and read these posts.

I have a problem with stereotyping and double standards in general because no one group is all anything. Do I think that women have been more oppressed and discriminated against overall... you bet I do! male privilege (especially, white-male privilege) still dominates our culture.

[Gemme]

This isn't to add to the conversation and probably doesn't have any meaning to anyone at all and that's just peachy. I have an issue with what I wrote myself and cannot edit it, or course, being that I wrote it yesterday.

Meg Ryan, cutie patootie that she was (before the botched plastic surgery on her face)...okay, she's still cute but not as cute as before...prefers accents, I think.

I wrote Latin men and then realized that Russell Crowe was not Latin. Doh. I edited to say manly men because that's the only thing I could think of to change it to but that hasn't sat right with me. So, I think...like me...she has a thing for guys with an accent.

[Ldyluck88]

Interesting posts. I'm new here so I think I will learn as I go, I think, haha

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Dylan using married queers who are divorcing is almost comical considering the incredibly small percentage of queers who are allowed to get married and how very new it is.

I swear, do y'all just read my posts, and then insert whatever wild thought comes to your head? Do you read my posts at all, or do you just see that I've posted, make up some ridiculousness, and then attribute it to me?

Please show me where I used queer marriages as an example of anything.

I'm beginning to think you misconstrue my words on purpose


Dylan

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Dylan

Martina,

I was specifically talking about celebrities. It started with Jet's comment about how much Sandy didn't deserve "this".

I don't know how much more clear I could have made that. Should I now put a disclaimer in all of my posts?

That turned to butch-femme couples.

And somewhere in there, someone (Superfemme?) made a "never" comment

Which led to me asking about queers (specifically queer women, but it could have been reversed to include queer men) who are married, but for whatever reason don't feel they can divorce sleeping with other partners. Because I don't believe in "all" or "never" statements. I see in this thread a number of people discussing infidelity in many forms. I was specifically talking about celebrities, and since I don't much care for celebrities, I tried to turn the convo to b-fers. SPECIFICALLY. Sorry I wasn't more clear in stating I was NOT talking about the entire history of women, or even women in general. I'll be sure to be more clear next time I decide to discuss celebrity cheaters.


Dylan

Oh, I don't know. Where on EARTH did I come up with that?
Because you just feed me the material Rev., I don't have to make a THING up.

[SuperFemme]

p.s. Dylan you are right about sleeping with others while legally separated. Texas and six other states don't even ALLOW legal separation. Who knew? See, I learned something. It has to be whittled down to state law really on a *legal* basis. On a *moral* basis? That is between the couple I guess but technically it IS adultery. So thanks, because I had no idea.

[AtLast]

Legal vs. moral, very different concepts. And I'm thinking about personal moral vs. public moral.... dictates, conditioning, power dynamics and money..... on and on.....

There is no way I can put every single person that is unfaithful into one specific category. Nor can I personally define what is morally right for anyone else but myself. Hummm.. actually, the term moral doesn't sit well with me anyway. And I prefer legal sanctions about marriage (straight or queer) to encoumpass no-fault divorce. I have yet to see a divorce in which fault cannot be found with both partners in some way. Sure, there are things like cheating (if partners have an agreement to be sexually mongamous) and/or abusive trump most fault variables, but I am happy that many states have moved beyond fault which has been really based upon moral issues for dissolution of marriage. There are many other variables such as children to deal with. Many of us do own property together and have set-up retirement plans together.

Along with the right to marry legally, comes all the responsibilities of marriage and divorce.

I am just not OK with someone being sexual with someone else and being with me. However, I am very clear about this at the start and want this honesty returned. Sometimes we just have things that are deal-breakers.

I'm just glad I have developed some clarity about what I can accept and not accept and an understanding that all of us are just different in these matters.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

Legal vs. moral, very different concepts. And I'm thinking about personal moral vs. public moral.... dictates, conditioning, power dynamics and money..... on and on.....

There is no way I can put every single person that is unfaithful into one specific category. Nor can I personally define what is morally right for anyone else but myself. Hummm.. actually, the term moral doesn't sit well with me anyway. And I prefer legal sanctions about marriage (straight or queer) to encoumpass no-fault divorce. I have yet to see a divorce in which fault cannot be found with both partners in some way. Sure, there are things like cheating (if partners have an agreement to be sexually mongamous) and/or abusive trump most fault variables, but I am happy that many states have moved beyond fault which has been really based upon moral issues for dissolution of marriage. There are many other variables such as children to deal with. Many of us do own property together and have set-up retirement plans together.

Along with the right to marry legally, comes all the responsibilities of marriage and divorce.

I am just not OK with someone being sexual with someone else and being with me. However, I am very clear about this at the start and want this honesty returned. Sometimes we just have things that are deal-breakers.

I'm just glad I have developed some clarity about what I can accept and not accept and an understanding that all of us are just different in these matters.

to clarify: i used moral as in we each have our own moral compass of what is right and what is wrong.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

to clarify: i used moral as in we each have our own moral compass of what is right and what is wrong.

Yeppers, I got this!

[Soft*Silver]

one of my main credos is I dont accept the unacceptable. When people start to court me, I go through a series of questions that I ask them at different points along the way, and offer my own answers to them. Its a fun little game, but a serious one as well. I even tease (but am serious) about a contract before living together, compiled of things we have discussed and agreed upon. If someone absolutely has to have the sink cleaned out of dishes at all times...they need to let me know that because I am a stacker...I let the dishes stack up until there is enough of them to warrant standing there to do them. You would think this would not be a serious issue, but with two past partners, it was. So I have included this kind of "research" in my "questionarre"
so if I am going to ask about sinks and dirty dishes, you know I am going to ask about morals and values. Let someone say the "n" word and its a deal breaker. Seriously. Let someone tell me its ok to emotionally cheat on a partner,that they believe its not the same thing as physical cheating, they also lose.

I am CLEAR about my unacceptables, deal breakers. Life is way to short to think I can spend even a day with someone who does things that have the same affect on my soul as nails on chalkboards have on my spine....

[I'mOneToo]

It's not just disruptive to the sufferer, but everyone who knows them. It pervades every pore of the relationship until it kills it eventually. Maybe not in every case, but in my case, yeah. Some people suffer from the whole triple threat you mentioned, it's sad to feel so un-cared for by the other, that they would not want to get help. But they have to want it for themselves, another person will never be important enough. Like with my own addictions, I had to want to be clean and sober for myself, not for someone else. But I've also learned, for ME, sex addiction is a huge consideration in partnering -- learned like everything else, the hard way. I want no drugs, no alcohol, no smoking, and no sex addictions in my life. I want my partner to be able to be as fully in the present as possible. I offer that, and I want it in return. No more compromising my values. There are enough challenges in life without having to face daily addictions as part of the burden. Progress, not perfection -- and for me, progress starts with being free from active addictions, and my partner also. This is a separate issue (but related) from that of honesty and communication which are integral; for me it is impossible to achieve that with addictions in the way.

Originally Posted by Martina

Sex addiction isn't just about fucking. It is about the high, but the high might come from flirting or an emotional connection. It's not just people having lots of sex with random folks. That's one type. A lot of them are porn addicts. A huge number seem to have torrid affairs online with people they never meet. Some just become infatuated a lot but never act on it. Nevertheless, it's disruptive to their lives.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by I'mOneToo

It's not just disruptive to the sufferer, but everyone who knows them. It pervades every pore of the relationship until it kills it eventually. Maybe not in every case, but in my case, yeah. Some people suffer from the whole triple threat you mentioned, it's sad to feel so un-cared for by the other, that they would not want to get help. But they have to want it for themselves, another person will never be important enough. Like with my own addictions, I had to want to be clean and sober for myself, not for someone else. But I've also learned, for ME, sex addiction is a huge consideration in partnering -- learned like everything else, the hard way. I want no drugs, no alcohol, no smoking, and no sex addictions in my life. I want my partner to be able to be as fully in the present as possible. I offer that, and I want it in return. No more compromising my values. There are enough challenges in life without having to face daily addictions as part of the burden. Progress, not perfection -- and for me, progress starts with being free from active addictions, and my partner also. This is a separate issue (but related) from that of honesty and communication which are integral; for me it is impossible to achieve that with addictions in the way.

AMEN. I wonder if these few celebrity cases are doing a disservice to those who really do suffer as sex addicts. IMO it has made the public at large make a big joke about it. Which is sad.

Progress, not perfection baby!

[I'mOneToo]

In a way they do shine a light on a pervasive problem. On the down side, it tends to cause people to make light of a serious situation. Not everyone who suffers can get an all-expenses-paid trip to "Promises" or whatever the hell celeb rehab is popular these days. Maybe instead of highlighting those on pedestals, they could offer real solutions for the average person who may need it. It's a very complicated issue that can't be treated with a golf club.

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

AMEN. I wonder if these few celebrity cases are doing a disservice to those who really do suffer as sex addicts. IMO it has made the public at large make a big joke about it. Which is sad.

Progress, not perfection baby!

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Martina

Sex addiction isn't just about fucking. It is about the high, but the high might come from flirting or an emotional connection. It's not just people having lots of sex with random folks. That's one type. A lot of them are porn addicts. A huge number seem to have torrid affairs online with people they never meet. Some just become infatuated a lot but never act on it. Nevertheless, it's disruptive to their lives.

So glad you bring these points up. What is disrupted and how can really differ from couple to couple, as well. The thread got all involved with the celebrity phenomenon, but, what about just us? And I bet we all have an array of personal variables around relationships/marriages. When something causes our life to spin out of control, like multi-affairs or developing an online relationship that gets us in trouible - thinking about the Michigan man that ended up killing someone via an online romance in which the woman was actually the mother using her daughters identity, it can be addictive in nature. His marriage went down the tubes during his torrid love affair with someone who was actually not who he thought. And the guy he killed (the perceived threat) had never actually met the woman, either! he spent most of his time at home on the pc and he had a family!

[SuperFemme]

Many sex addicts are not in relationships. With a real person that is.

[Nina]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Many sex addicts are not in relationships. With a real person that is.

and, many sex addicts don't feel *themselves* as 'real' people...the whole thing, imo, is that it's all sad, sad, sad and brings that same upon everyone involved...

maudlin this evening, I guess...

[sweetcali]

So.....

I have been reading and following this thread just cuz well it interested me. Often times with threads like this my thinking and questions kind of go off in a direction that really is part of the topic but umm sometimes it doesn't look like it. So with my disclaimer here are my questions:

1) What if societies rules on how someone is to engage in sex were changed/different?

2) What if the societal rules and religious based rules on relationships and sexual conduct and activity were changed?

3) Aren't some of the ideas, rules, practices discussed in this thread really american societal rules of sexual conduct?

4) If the american societal rules of engagement within a relationship with regard to sex, sexuality and sexual conduct were different what would they look like?

sweetcali

[Kätzchen]

Originally Posted by Kobi

With the Tiger Woods and Sandra Bullock ( who in their right mind would cheat on Sandra Bullock????) issues of late. I am wondering what people think of fidelity in relationships these days. Is it an outdated concept?
How do you think you would react if you found out your partner was cheating?

Personally, I still think monogamy is my relationship mode of choice because I like things simple and predictable. And I suspect if I found out my partner was cheating on me, I would be throwing their belongings out a second story window - its the Italian in me.

First: I want to say that I miss you in our community and thanks for this thread topic of discussion.

Second: Fidelity is of paramount importance, especially for those of us who desire and prefer monogamous relationship ties. I *HATE* behavioral choices that cause people to cheat. I also view it as a huge red flag when my partner's friends know my partner has cheated on me and then they accidentally blurt it out in front of both my partner and I -- as it happened on January 1st, just earlier this week.

Needless to say, i am heartbroken over my partner's decision to do what they did, and although we have yet to dissolve our relational tie, I do hope we can salvage something of the last few years we've been together. Not sure what will happen, but I do know that I will not be moving forward until both of us decide what we want to do next.

<<<<<<~~~~ my heart is heavy from our/my relationship trauma. I won't be available anytime soon.

[Chancie]

It’s cool and maybe sad to see so many familiar names on this thread.

I’ve never cheated on anyone, nor knowingly been with someone who was cheating, but I have been cheated on. A few months before I joined the old site, maybe 20 years ago, my partner of ten years told me that she was having an affair.

It was emotionally immature of her, at the least, but as time past, I was relieved, and of course Pete and I have been together for 14 years, and married for eight years.

Still, it was a cowardly choice, and I’m very sorry for others whose partners have made the same cowardly choice.

[Blade]

Fidelity and monogamy are at the top of my tick list. I've never cheated on anyone. I have been cheated on and it is crushing. I put all of my trust into a relationship once that trust is earned. When it is breached, I'm done. No fixing it no apology wanted or needed no excuses. Just leave me alone.

This happens in online and LDR's just as it dies in real life. Not nearly as crushing but still hurtful. I guess perhaps dew to the nature of the situation mostly being virtual.

Either way I back off and need alone time to clear my head and thoughts. Sort of back up and punt. Regroup. I always learn something about myself, so when it has happened, all is not lost, only a setback.