Transgender Professional Athletes

[Medusa]

I have be reticent to post this thread for the last few days but I feel that this is a super interesting and important topic and truly would like to have a discussion about this.
Posting this in the Trans Zone, not because I only want Trans folks to respond (I want *everyone* to feel free to post) but because I feel that this is an issue central to the Trans community (and really, all of our communities).

I read an article recently about Professional MMA fighter Fallon Fox. Fallon is one of the very first Transgender athletes to compete in MMA fighting competitions openly. Naturally, she competes in the female category for MMA fighting.

This has sparked some extreme controversy and some pretty Transphobic comments from folks within the MMA league and even from fans. Many folks feel that since Fallon was born with male parts, she should not qualify to fight against folks born into Female bodies. (and please forgive me if I am being clumsy with language here, trying my best to use the most respectful and correct language).

I'm curious what folks here think. I know this is not just a cut and dry "yes or no" answer and I am still educating myself on this issue but welcome any thoughts.

I believe there was some other controversy a few years back with a Transgender runner competing in the female cross-country marathon and a potentially "unfair" advantage. I'll try to dig up that information so it can be part of this discussion.

As always, please remain respectful!

[Kelt]

I will come back with a more thoughtful post after I look into this, but my first hit; It's deja vu all over again.

I was 15 in 1976 when Renee Richards was denied entry into the US Open, in 1977 she made me think life could be possible when the courts overturned it.

[DapperButch]

For me it is pretty simple.

If the male bodied person (assumingly XY) is on testosterone blockers, they can play/should play women's sports.

If the female bodied person (assumingly XX), is on testosterone, they can/should play men's sports.

It's the T that gives the advantage/takes away the physical advantages.

[DapperButch]

I looked up Fallon Fox (I had never heard of her). Her testicles were removed, so it is not like she could even "pretend" to be on T blockers. She most likely has less testosterone than most cis females now, actually.

[curlyredhead]

Since I am extremely athletic. I am currently training for a half Ironman. I get asked a lot since I have been competing for the last 6 years in Triathlons, Marathons, and Bike rides do you submit a form stating your use of Testosterone? For me personally, no I don't. Considering I am an age grouper, and I really don't see myself placing at large events in my age range. I have a lot of health reasons as to why I have never filled out the paperwork for it.

However there are other trans folks out there that can compete at that level, and I think they should report it, but only if it is required. Last time I looked at some documentation requiring that, the use of testosterone wasn't listed.
That may have just been for that particular race.

I think I might have gone off topic a bit, but I fully support Trans Athletes and think they should be allowed fair competition.

[vagina]

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by vagina

Vagina, could you explain why you posted the pictures?

I don't understand the context.

Thanks.

[Corkey]

Without some form of explanation I can only come to the conclusion it was meant as a slight to the Trans community. Still waiting on clarification from the person who posted, but not for long.

[Corkey]

And time's up.

[Medusa]

Vagina-

Please explain the reason behind posting these photos?

Without context, and based on things you have posted elsewhere on the site, I am concerned that you are posting these photos for negative reasons.

To be clear, I don't want that. I don't want a Trans-shaming thread and I don't want this conversation to be ugly or negative.

Thanks,
Mme

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by curlyredhead

Since I am extremely athletic. I am currently training for a half Ironman. I get asked a lot since I have been competing for the last 6 years in Triathlons, Marathons, and Bike rides do you submit a form stating your use of Testosterone? For me personally, no I don't. Considering I am an age grouper, and I really don't see myself placing at large events in my age range. I have a lot of health reasons as to why I have never filled out the paperwork for it.

However there are other trans folks out there that can compete at that level, and I think they should report it, but only if it is required. Last time I looked at some documentation requiring that, the use of testosterone wasn't listed.
That may have just been for that particular race.

I think I might have gone off topic a bit, but I fully support Trans Athletes and think they should be allowed fair competition.

But, you compete with the men, right?

The issue is when an xx bodied person uses testosterone (therefore having the muscle mass of xy bodied person) and competes against female. The issue is about unfair advantage.

Personally, I see no reason why you personally should have to share your medical status if you are competing in men's racing. It is not like the cis guys have to share their medical information.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Medusa

Vagina-

Please explain the reason behind posting these photos?

Without context, and based on things you have posted elsewhere on the site, I am concerned that you are posting these photos for negative reasons.

To be clear, I don't want that. I don't want a Trans-shaming thread and I don't want this conversation to be ugly or negative.

Thanks,
Mme

Medusa,

Personally, I would prefer you remove the image, regardless of intent. I don't know any trans* individuals who would want their "before" pictures shown without their prior approval. It is disrespectful.

[Corkey]

I want to publicly thank Medusa for her support of the Trans community. It takes character to stand up to inequality.

[vagina]

The photos are meant to show what females are supposed to compete against.

Especially in a sport like ultimate fighting, it's dangerous to put a transitioned male bodied person in the ring or cage with a female. Fallon probably has that muscular body working out 1 hour a day. A female would have to devote her whole life and 8 hours a day to training to get a muscular physique that is nowhere near Fallon's.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by vagina

The photos are meant to show what females are supposed to compete against.

Especially in a sport like ultimate fighting, it's dangerous to put a transitioned male bodied person in the ring or cage with a female. Fallon probably has that muscular body working out 1 hour a day. A female would have to devote her whole life and 8 hours a day to training to get a muscular physique that is nowhere near Fallon's.

There's where the science doesn't meet reality. Once the testicles are removed there is no hormone produced. Epic fail.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by vagina

The photos are meant to show what females are supposed to compete against.

Especially in a sport like ultimate fighting, it's dangerous to put a transitioned male bodied person in the ring or cage with a female. Fallon probably has that muscular body working out 1 hour a day. A female would have to devote her whole life and 8 hours a day to training to get a muscular physique that is nowhere near Fallon's.

WHAT females are supposed to compete against?

Oh lord, this is going to go down hill really fucking fast.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by vagina

The photos are meant to show what females are supposed to compete against.

Especially in a sport like ultimate fighting, it's dangerous to put a transitioned male bodied person in the ring or cage with a female. Fallon probably has that muscular body working out 1 hour a day. A female would have to devote her whole life and 8 hours a day to training to get a muscular physique that is nowhere near Fallon's.

She has no testicles. She actually has less testosterone than you do, as she can no longer produce any. YOU are making testosterone. SHE (that would be transgender female), isn't.

SO, her body is from working as hard or harder than the other women.

[Allison W]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

She has no testicles. She actually has less testosterone than you do, as she can no longer produce any. YOU are making testosterone. SHE (that would be transgender female), isn't.

SO, her body is from working as hard or harder than the other women.

Actually, her adrenal glands can still produce testosterone, but this is true for non-trans women as well.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by Allison W

Actually, her adrenal glands can still produce testosterone, but this is true for non-trans women as well.

At a reduced rate, not at the rate of a cismale, thank you for joining the discussion.

[Allison W]

Originally Posted by Corkey

At a reduced rate, not at the rate of a cismale, thank you for joining the discussion.

I'd assumed that was implied in the qualifier that it's also true for non-trans women, whom no one argues produce testosterone at the same rate as men, but thank you for the clarification.