A request

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Liam

I find it fascinating that a very polite request to be acknowledged—to be seen and heard, by a member of this online community, has been dismissed repeatedly, and their vulnerability has been met with arrogance displayed in a very cavalier manner. I dare say, that if the roles were reversed, there would be a call for all all non-woman members, to be burned at the stake.

It baffles me why there is so much animosity toward those who are not women on this site—it is not a woman only space. We could be strong allies, yet there are those, who repeatedly choose to create a line, and perpetuate this us against them mentality.

How about now Dylan is the great divider and has an agenda?

It's disgusting to watch the constant attacking towards one another over one's own personal gender choice

Diversity?

Where??

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

It's disgusting to watch the constant attacking towards one another over one's own personal gender choice

Diversity?

Where??

Thank you Lady Snow.

I came into this thread and asked a question oh way back at the beginning....got a nice pm from the OP, and an actual illuminating response from Bit (thank you ....again ), but my honest, "please educate me because I'm new here" question got completely ignored. Instead it sounds like more and more of an old fight.

Honestly, I'm disappointed.

I hear less drama about all this "how do you ID" from my own mother these days (which is saying something...let me tell you...for her to accept that I have a butch partner is probably a sign of the next coming....but anyway....)

At the risk of sounding like I'm asking us all to stand in a circle and sing....I have to say that I'm frustrated. I'm still very new to this community, and I was thrilled to find everyone here....he/she/hy/ze...the ftm and mtf...the daddis and girls...the leather/bdsm (k...I don't read those threads cuz I scare easy, but hey...I'm glad you're here).

I appreciate the diversity here. I don't need to agree with everyone. I don't even need to understand everyone. I just don't understand why we want to spend so much of our time trying to verbally beat the crap out of each other when we have bigger fish to fry.

K...I'm done.

[Chancie]

I've started to post to this thread several times and deleted my post.

In general, like a family or a polyamorous relationship, there is a history of how members here respond and react to each other. In some cases, that history is close to ten years old.

This thread was started by someone who wanted to say I'm here, I'm not a woman, Get used to it.

If your agenda is different, start a different thread.

If you are feeling ignored, start a new thread.

How does that cliche go?

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

[Jett]

I read back through this thread and didn't see anywhere even one person say:

...there's only one way to ID as butch

...that there's only one way to be queer

...that any persons ID is wrong

...that any ID is better

...that anyone even took anothers ID as a dis to there own

...anyone accused of taking up too much space

...that butch can't stand alone

...anyone doesn't belong here

I haven't even seen any general animosity toward any other ID from any ID... OP or posters and I question seriously why anyone would want to make it look like that considering we're trying to foster community for everyone here right? Or are we trying to perpetuate some divide?

What I have seen is Dapper's post about and request that female ID being mixed up with women ID in discussion and that it makes hym uncomfortable even though hy ID's as neither. I think there was a misunderstanding that Dapper was requesting only women ID butches were responsible and should work on it.

Somewhere midway through Dapper said : "I can see how my post may have appeared to be directed towards butch women. It was directed towards everyone for their thoughts."

By this time per usual because of the misunderstanding the thread was slightly derailed, I say slightly because the topic was about female and butch women being used interchangably and those ID's and related were still being spoken about.

That said... I wish that in the interest of the whole community we would read the threads before we jump in and make huge generalized sweeping negative comments about entire groups, ID's sexes or genders and then paint them as thee ones dissing, divisive or downgrading any other IDs. This is how shit gets stirred not how stuff gets fixed or threads get back on track for the OP.

Instead of really heating things up with "look! They're the one's creating all the divisiveness! Listen to what I'm going to say they did!"... how about quoting individuals? How about addressing the actual posters who offended and dealing with that person individually... unless of course we're trying actually to paint or make a statement about ALL people in that group... to which that'd be the true singling out and painting of an entire identity, sex or gender for what-ever motive.

We ALL have a right to speak up, butch women in this thread have a right to speak up here when spoken about, trans people have a right to speak up for themselves, butches have the right, femmes so on and so on... it's NOT an affront to other IDs when people do speak about themselves especially when spoken to or about in the OP.

That's one thing I definately agree we need to get the hell past...

[betenoire]

Thank you, Chancie.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

How about now Dylan is the great divider and has an agenda?

It's disgusting to watch the constant attacking towards one another over one's own personal gender choice

Diversity?

Where??

What kills me is that anyone felt the need to defend themselves against somebody's personal id and request for respect. Defend against what?

[TenderKnight]

A couple more cents to add, mostly along the lines of the default to "he" when it comes to butch/femme online interaction..

I know that when I first started this trek on the b/f interwebs, "He" was my way to get in my head, ok, this is a butch instead of a femme.. It is the visual image of a person with male or mascaline engery. I didn't feel that it was anti anything.. I didn't think it could hurt anyone.. Besides, everyone was doing it.. lol

Now, I get to grow a little, stretch my brain muscle and relearn and rethink this binary way of seeing this community.. It is very diverse, but sadly, as been stated more then once, everyone gets really touch about ID's.. If you start to call me girl or she, yeah, I'd think you were an ass, because it is plainly stated about how I ID.. *shrugs*

Just some of my thoughts and experience while interacting on this and other forums.

In Light,
Tony

[The_Lady_Snow]

Since I am the one who pointed out the whole accusatory agenda thing towards Dylan...

I Snow (this is Snow coming from Snow space and what Snow is feeling) feel this has gotten ridiculous sometimes, notice I said sometimes not ALL the time. I get that Dapper started a space for butches, I did not *ass-u-me* it was for one type of butch or one particular butch gender, care to know why? I don't lump butches into one gender or one pronoun.

Years and years of being on these sites has taught me to look to see what butches, or femmes prefer to be addressed as, and now low and behold there is a place to the left that pretty much tells it all.. I also have learned that even if I make a mistake someone will be kind enough and correct it and I will have the courtesy to remember that.

So yes to me (once again me space) it seems like just A lot of mud slinging is A happening....

I could just be over sensitive right now I am not feeling my best....


Edited to add:

Nope I am not over sensitive

I just need to bounce out of this convo too it's just to fucking crayzee and I promised June to be good while she vacationed..

Peace out Peeps and GOOD LUCK!

[JustBeingMe]

I hate to say it, but this is EXACTLY how threads stop. Just what happens when someone comes in ranting about something in a thread, and then BAM< no more talk. I hate it I do. I can't stand it when this shit happens, and sometimes I just want to say Grow the Fuck Up and stop acting like crying babies and behave. If you have something to say, then dammit by all means say it but dont come in and disrupt a thread with tantrums. Jesus H. Christ. Will it ever end?

signed,
over it already.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Since I am the one who pointed out the whole accusatory agenda thing towards Dylan...

I Snow (this is Snow coming from Snow space and what Snow is feeling) feel this has gotten ridiculous sometimes, notice I said sometimes not ALL the time. I get that Dapper started a space for butches, I did not *ass-u-me* it was for one type of butch or one particular butch gender, care to know why? I don't lump butches into one gender or one pronoun.

Years and years of being on these sites has taught me to look to see what butches, or femmes prefer to be addressed as, and now low and behold there is a place to the left that pretty much tells it all.. I also have learned that even if I make a mistake someone will be kind enough and correct it and I will have the courtesy to remember that.

So yes to me (once again me space) it seems like just A lot of mud slinging is A happening....

I could just be over sensitive right now I am not feeling my best....


Edited to add:

Nope I am not over sensitive

I just need to bounce out of this convo too it's just to fucking crayzee and I promised June to be good while she vacationed..

Peace out Peeps and GOOD LUCK!

And Snow hits it on the head!

When we get personal and frame things via the on-going grudge mentality, we get no where fast because hearing other people ceases. The heels get dug in, mud slings in great archs of grandeur and we go back to our respective corners without change, growth, or just being able to see someone else's thinking as valid.

I have done this and it just is not an effective communication tool. Just doesn't work!

Gonna have to start cussing again............