Sex, Gender, or Sexual Orientation

DapperButch · 05-30-2010, 09:41 PM

Ummmm..........yep.

Dylan · 05-30-2010, 09:44 PM

I agree with almost all your points

I disagree with butches are female

And I also use transsexed to denote the difference between transgender and transsexed folks. I think using the term transgender as an umbrella term gets confusing, especially when talking in groups where members are transgendered, or transsexed, or both.

Dylan

DapperButch · 05-30-2010, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylan

I agree with almost all your points

I disagree with butches are female

And I also use transsexed to denote the difference between transgender and transsexed folks. I think using the term transgender as an umbrella term gets confusing, especially when talking in groups where members are transgendered, or transsexed, or both.

Dylan

I agree. The terms are very, very often used interchageably/inaccurately, which is useful to NO ONE.

Andrew, Jr. · 05-30-2010, 10:04 PM

Imho, everyone goes on their own journey to figure out if they are glbt or straight.

apretty · 05-30-2010, 10:44 PM

i'm queer by choice.

Darth Denkay · 05-31-2010, 08:44 AM

Hi Dylan,

Thanks for adding transsexed to the pot. I didn't think to include it. I use the term transsexed in the same way that you do (I think), which leaves transgendered as an umbrella term, as you said, that can be very confusing.

Thanks again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylan

I agree with almost all your points

I disagree with butches are female

And I also use transsexed to denote the difference between transgender and transsexed folks. I think using the term transgender as an umbrella term gets confusing, especially when talking in groups where members are transgendered, or transsexed, or both.

Dylan

Andrew, Jr. · 05-30-2010, 09:44 PM

I just say we are all human beings, and reaching out to each other for love. We are family. How someone id's is a personal choice.

Andrew

Queerasfck · 05-30-2010, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew, Jr.

I just say we are all human beings, and reaching out to each other for love. We are family. How someone id's is a personal choice.

Andrew

Umm, no I don't think it's a choice.

Linus · 05-31-2010, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew, Jr.

I just say we are all human beings, and reaching out to each other for love. We are family. How someone id's is a personal choice.

Andrew

Quote:

Originally Posted by EzeeTiger

Umm, no I don't think it's a choice.

Actually, I'd disagree, Ez. The actual term we use to define ourselves is the choice (e.g., I use transman while others just use man and yet others use tranny fag). The reason for who we are isn't. (My body and mind do not match)

I think that's what Andrew might have been referring to.

Andrew, Jr. · 05-31-2010, 09:10 AM

Linus,

Thank you for your help explaining what I was trying to get out.

Love,
Andrew

Nat · 05-31-2010, 12:35 PM

To me, the line between sex and gender is a little blurry just because I can't help but think that there is a biological component often to a person's gender experience, and once biology enters the picture - is it really sex or gender?

Daryn · 05-31-2010, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nat

To me, the line between sex and gender is a little blurry just because I can't help but think that there is a biological component often to a person's gender experience, and once biology enters the picture - is it really sex or gender?

Hmmm... can you talk a bit about why you think there is a biological component to gender experience? Do you think it has something to do with the brain (one theory) or hormones that the fetus was exposed to or ?????

On the topic of choice, the only choices I have made in my life are to embrace who I truly am. I found it easier to embrace being queer (loving women) that to embrace my masculinity (long trip from tomboy to trying to be straight girl to androgynous to soft butch to butch to genderqueer guy with no plans to transition). Coming out was a couple of years and while I was in college. The gender journey was a couple of decades...

Queerasfck · 05-31-2010, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linus

Actually, I'd disagree, Ez. The actual term we use to define ourselves is the choice (e.g., I use transman while others just use man and yet others use tranny fag). The reason for who we are isn't. (My body and mind do not match)

I think that's what Andrew might have been referring to.

Maybe that is what he meant to say Linus but you could read the comment more than one way.
If you and Andrew are speaking strictly about one's own terminology then I would completely agree.

The_Lady_Snow · 05-31-2010, 12:43 PM

I am pretty sure that I was born Queer...

Queerasfck · 05-31-2010, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I am pretty sure that I was born Queer...

I agree Lady Snow. As far back as I can recall I was a big queer. I have no problem looking back and knowing that now. But when I was younger and it was actually happening I was pretty oblivious to my attraction to girls .

Nat · 05-31-2010, 12:49 PM

And to me there is an element of choice in "ID" that is different from the lack of choice involved in experience.

Am I a femme because I don't have a choice or am I a femme because I claim femme? I choose to claim the term femme because it fits me, but to me it's still a choice to have "femme" as my ID.

It is my experience that I feel both male and female. It is a choice whether I make that part of my ID. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. My choice as to whether to make it part of my ID is informed by my experience but also by other factors - social, political, personal.

I meet people *I* would think are butch, but it's not my call. I think it's the choice to claim an ID that gives you ownership of that ID. I don't know how a person IDs without making a choice.

I am innately queer, but I don't think my ID is queer until I make the choice to own my queerness.

Then again, that's what this thread is about - our different definitions.

Queerasfck · 05-31-2010, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nat

I meet people *I* would think are butch, but it's not my call.

I was one of those people.

05-30-2010, 09:41 PM	#1
DapperButch Roadster Guy How Do You Identify?: FTM, Stone Butch Preferred Pronoun?: He Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northeast Posts: 7,745 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 26,545 Thanked 26,808 Times in 5,771 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	Ummmm..........yep. __________________ -Dapper Are you educated or indoctrinated?

05-31-2010, 12:35 PM	#11
Nat Senior Member How Do You Identify?: bigender (DID System) Preferred Pronoun?: he/him or alter-specific Relationship Status: Unavailable Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Central TX Posts: 3,537 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,047 Thanked 13,963 Times in 2,589 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	To me, the line between sex and gender is a little blurry just because I can't help but think that there is a biological component often to a person's gender experience, and once biology enters the picture - is it really sex or gender? __________________ I'm a fountain of blood. In the shape of a girl. - Bjork What is to give light must endure burning. -Viktor Frankl

05-31-2010, 12:43 PM	#14
The_Lady_Snow MILLION $$$ PUSSY How Do You Identify?: Kinky, Raw, Perverted, Uber Queer Alpha Femme Preferred Pronoun?: Iconic Ms. Relationship Status: Keeper of 3, only one has the map to my freckles Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: La Reina del Sur Posts: 22,488 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 32,231 Thanked 80,076 Times in 15,669 Posts Rep Power: 21474875	I am pretty sure that I was born Queer... __________________ "If you’re going to play these dirty games of ours, then you might as well indulge completely. It’s all about turning back into an animal and that’s the beauty of it. Place your guilt on the sidewalk and take a blow torch to it (guilt is usually worthless anyway). Be perverted, be filthy, do things that mannered people shouldn’t do. If you’re going to be gross then go for it and don’t wimp out."---Master Aiden

05-31-2010, 12:49 PM	#16
Nat Senior Member How Do You Identify?: bigender (DID System) Preferred Pronoun?: he/him or alter-specific Relationship Status: Unavailable Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Central TX Posts: 3,537 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,047 Thanked 13,963 Times in 2,589 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	And to me there is an element of choice in "ID" that is different from the lack of choice involved in experience. Am I a femme because I don't have a choice or am I a femme because I claim femme? I choose to claim the term femme because it fits me, but to me it's still a choice to have "femme" as my ID. It is my experience that I feel both male and female. It is a choice whether I make that part of my ID. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. My choice as to whether to make it part of my ID is informed by my experience but also by other factors - social, political, personal. I meet people I would think are butch, but it's not my call. I think it's the choice to claim an ID that gives you ownership of that ID. I don't know how a person IDs without making a choice. I am innately queer, but I don't think my ID is queer until I make the choice to own my queerness. Then again, that's what this thread is about - our different definitions. __________________ I'm a fountain of blood. In the shape of a girl. - Bjork What is to give light must endure burning. -Viktor Frankl

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05-30-2010, 09:44 PM	#2
Dylan Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Permanently Banned 10/2010 Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: She thinks all my jokes are corny Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Great State O' Posts: 880 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,027 Thanked 1,838 Times in 500 Posts Rep Power: 0	I agree with almost all your points I disagree with butches are female And I also use transsexed to denote the difference between transgender and transsexed folks. I think using the term transgender as an umbrella term gets confusing, especially when talking in groups where members are transgendered, or transsexed, or both. Dylan

05-30-2010, 10:04 PM	#4
Andrew, Jr. Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Me Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Unavailable Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Over the Rainbow in a House Posts: 5,072 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 16,004 Thanked 5,249 Times in 2,216 Posts Rep Power: 0	Imho, everyone goes on their own journey to figure out if they are glbt or straight.

05-30-2010, 10:44 PM	#5
apretty Senior Member How Do You Identify?: femme Preferred Pronoun?: sea shell Relationship Status: married Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: san diego Posts: 1,687 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,927 Thanked 4,373 Times in 1,012 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	i'm queer by choice.

05-31-2010, 09:10 AM	#10
Andrew, Jr. Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Me Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Unavailable Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Over the Rainbow in a House Posts: 5,072 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 16,004 Thanked 5,249 Times in 2,216 Posts Rep Power: 0	Linus, Thank you for your help explaining what I was trying to get out. Love, Andrew