Did a civil war just start?

[Lyte]

I've bolded the bit to which I'm responding.

The irony here is... and I'm not disagreeing with you entirely... is that while "white women" might be a subset of an oppressed group, there's large chunk of white women who have (quite happily!) tethered themselves to men... to Trump... to the "oppressors" ... for lack of a better term. I don't know how else we can explain Collins' vote and/or the continued support for these morons by women of all shades ... except to suggest that they must be feeling a little ... better you than me!

Originally Posted by tantalizingfemme

Nope. It's already been happening. Just ask anyone who is Black, Hispanic, Native American,an immigrant, transgender, etc. White women are just another subset to add to the group. And let's be honest, for all of those women who fall under the groups I mentioned above, what is happening now is nothing new to them. It's the white woman that is now feeling it. I cannot even imagine what a non-white woman has been thinking watching this because because they have been dealing with this and fighting forever.

It would be an absolute insult to millions who have already been fighting for their rights to insinuate that a Civil War is now starting simply because white women are affected.

[Lyte]

I hate when the quote feature doesn't work right... so hit and miss.

To this... WheatToast

I happen to think Trump's probable conspiracy with Russia to steal the election takes priority over all the other crimes, because democracy as we know it may be ending as a result. That feels more urgent to me right now than anything else, and I did not like the immediate implication(s) that I was being callous and cold and possibly "too white" toward the issue of immigrant babies held in cages without their parents. That was a fucking stretch, considering.

I totally agree. Whatever the fuck is going on in DC ... with Trump and his monkeys ... reaches into every crack and crevice of everyone's life. Addressing oppression, bigotry, inequality, etc... are of paramount importance but we'll hardly be able to address those if our economy... our security ... our cohesion as a nation ... etc... etc... are in the friggin' toilet. Figuratively speaking ... how can one bring peace and solidarity to members of a household when the house is literally collapsing all around them?

[tantalizingfemme]

Originally Posted by Lyte

I've bolded the bit to which I'm responding.

The irony here is... and I'm not disagreeing with you entirely... is that while "white women" might be a subset of an oppressed group, there's large chunk of white women who have (quite happily!) tethered themselves to men... to Trump... to the "oppressors" ... for lack of a better term. I don't know how else we can explain Collins' vote and/or the continued support for these morons by women of all shades ... except to suggest that they must be feeling a little ... better you than me!

I initially wasn't going to respond to this because having to explain once again in my life that no where did I say "all" is exhausting, as I already have to do this when I am confronted with not "all" men. (Because clearly I am not smart or aware enough to recognize that not everyone gets lumped into one category because of a few.) <insert eyeroll> But I am responding because I don't appreciate your assumption.

And so, after what I wrote in this thread, and have written in other political threads we both are involved in, you come here and infer that I am unaware that white women like Susan Collins and her ilk exist. Actually you don't infer, you tell me I am unaware by pointing out to me that "there's large chunk of white women who have (quite happily!) tethered themselves to men... to Trump... to the "oppressors" ... for lack of a better term" as if I had no idea. It's insulting.

I am glad there are other people who read what I wrote and got it.

[Martina]

I don't even understand this thread. Seriously. What is it about?

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by Martina

I don't even understand this thread. Seriously. What is it about?

I feel like the OP was saying that the Judiciary was the last branch of government with some integrity and that the confirmation of Kavanaugh means that branch has joined the other two in having been taken over by the forces of evil, and that the fall of the judiciary is what marks our descent into war.

This was interpreted as the OP having said that the official addition of white women to oppressed classes marks our descent into war, and that is insulting because the war has been going on for centuries and white women just didn't know or care.

This makes sense if "the fall of the judiciary" and "the recent addition of white women to the oppressed class" are interchangeable statements, and that therefore, by stating the former the OP also implies the latter.

I have seen this a lot on twitter, but the rhetoric there is more "welcome to the struggle, here's a syllabus"

We have twelve years to save the planet. I am going to lecture the white women about their tardiness in year 13.

[kittygrrl]

so, we all acknowledge that most women who live in U.S. have woke? yay. i would have appreciated it had it happened sooner but, better late then never! Americans are fickle about mostly everything..not much attention span pass their neighborhood. It's the nature of the beast

[Martina]

I read that Evangelical women in Texas are polling more strongly Democrat than in the past and that they could make the difference in the Senate race there.

I also saw an article on Trump voters who had been Obama voters but are coming back to vote for Democrats this election. Trump won on women rust belt voters who had flipped parties -- had been Obama voters -- and because African Americans in cities like Milwaukee didn't come out for Hillary. The Midterms aren't a Presidential election, and every election is different. But it is undeniable that these are gains.

[Lyte]

Whoa! lol

There was no assumption in my head or heart when I responded to your post. No assumption regarding all... or some... or many... not so much as f'ing baker's dozen. I was, in fact, agreeing with you and adding a wee caveat to the subset that you highlighted … white women.

Perhaps, in future, you might ask the author of the post clarify before assuming that they've assumed.

Whoa

Originally Posted by tantalizingfemme

I initially wasn't going to respond to this because having to explain once again in my life that no where did I say "all" is exhausting, as I already have to do this when I am confronted with not "all" men. (Because clearly I am not smart or aware enough to recognize that not everyone gets lumped into one category because of a few.) <insert eyeroll> But I am responding because I don't appreciate your assumption.

And so, after what I wrote in this thread, and have written in other political threads we both are involved in, you come here and infer that I am unaware that white women like Susan Collins and her ilk exist. Actually you don't infer, you tell me I am unaware by pointing out to me that "there's large chunk of white women who have (quite happily!) tethered themselves to men... to Trump... to the "oppressors" ... for lack of a better term" as if I had no idea. It's insulting.

I am glad there are other people who read what I wrote and got it.

[Lyte]

A couple of quick preface points...

1. This is not intended to hijack the thread from the OP's original intent or topic of the thread.

2. The assertion that there are (white) women still loyal to Trump even after the Ford/Kavanaugh hearing and confirmation isn't one that just popped into my head. I heard it several days ago on MSNBC and it made me go WTF??

I just Googled and found a most interesting opinion piece on the subject. I've not read the whole thing (at work) but one sentence did jump out at me that might better explain the point I was trying to make in a previous post. The paragraph begins with...

"We’re talking about white women. The same 53 percent who put their racial privilege ahead of their second-class gender..."

If you'd like to check out the whole thing...

White Women, Come Get Your People
They will defend their privilege to the death.

[Martina]

That's a given, that white women are heavily Republican. Not news. The Dems may be making inroads. But no shit, Sherlock. White college educated women have been the backbone of the Republican party since Eisenhower probably. Gender issues don't seem to affect their votes, unless it's abortion, and those who care deeply about that tend to be Republicans.

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by Martina

I read that Evangelical women in Texas are polling more strongly Democrat than in the past and that they could make the difference in the Senate race there.

I also saw an article on Trump voters who had been Obama voters but are coming back to vote for Democrats this election. Trump won on women rust belt voters who had flipped parties -- had been Obama voters -- and because African Americans in cities like Milwaukee didn't come out for Hillary. The Midterms aren't a Presidential election, and every election is different. But it is undeniable that these are gains.

I am not seeing wokeness from Evangelical women.

My aunt, who was florist and bridesmaid at my wedding, has posted a Dr. Ford meme saying "are you sure it wasn't Bill Clinton who raped you?" and a Bill/Chelsea meme with Bill saying "did i rape the ugly one?" and Chelsea saying "Dad, that's mom."

[Martina]

This is where I read it. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/09/u...als-women.html

My Evangelical relatives have posted some nasty memes, too. One early one basically called Dr. Ford a crybaby, so when Kavanaugh sniveled through his second hearing, I made a big point of mentioning his entitled whining.

[Martina]

Seriously, for Obama and Clinton, if you liked them, you can thank people of color.

[Lyte]

Me neither. I'm in Texas and I'm not seeing/hearing a lot of … I'm done with Trump!!

I'm actually okay with that (to some degree) so long as their voting follows this new inner voice.

Originally Posted by dark_crystal

I am not seeing wokeness from Evangelical women.

[Lyte]

Also not news... hope springs eternal Holmes.

Originally Posted by Martina

That's a given, that white women are heavily Republican. Not news. The Dems may be making inroads. But no shit, Sherlock.

[WheatToast]

Originally Posted by dark_crystal

I feel like the OP was saying that the Judiciary was the last branch of government with some integrity and that the confirmation of Kavanaugh means that branch has joined the other two in having been taken over by the forces of evil, and that the fall of the judiciary is what marks our descent into war.

This was interpreted as the OP having said that the official addition of white women to oppressed classes marks our descent into war, and that is insulting because the war has been going on for centuries and white women just didn't know or care.

That's precisely what I was saying. Thanks!

[kittygrrl]

Did anyone watch the msnbc special last night on the vote? Most of the country is totally unaware and doesn't much care about Russia, the "me to" movement or that trump lies constantly...people in u.s are very short-sighted and take freedom for granted. No amount of shaming or warning will really move them until they "feel" it personally(on some level)..i think those of us who are woke, live in a bubble..which will probably burst at some point..we as liberals are almost as clueless as the conservatives..so pulling out your fur when it comes to trump won't get you anything or anywhere. I think (at some point) it's prudent to personally prepare for the consequences we are obviously in no mood to consider.

[Kätzchen]

Originally Posted by WheatToast

If a certain social media spot (that rhymes with SpaceLook) is any indication, the addition of Trump sympathizer Brett Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court marks the third and final segment of the Federal Government to be invaded by a man or men in a position to let Trump's many crimes* go unpunished.
If the number of protesters and arrests are any indication, this Supreme Court scam could be the last straw for Democrats, liberals and progressives going high when they go low.
I spent a good chunk of the evening swatting at MAGA-maniacs and encouraging my more temperate friends to start using the F word with gusto.
I may not own a gun, but I can talk so much smack, some of them might want to shoot themselves.


*please don't say he's innocent until proven guilty--his lawyer Michael Cohen already confessed to felony campaign finance violations (using campaign funds to pay off Trump's humps), thus making Trump an unindicted co-conspirator. No quibbling, please.

You haven't been around in an awfully long time, WT, but I can't help but think you were on to something, when you made your posts, months ago.

I can't help but think that maybe it's more than a 'civil' war.

I can't help but think how T***P has a penchant for suing anyone and everyone who stands in his way of getting what he thinks he wants, when all he wants, apparently, is to monopolize people's lives, time and money (what money, right?) with his inability to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Maybe when this A-hole fucks up enough people's lives, and the ability to support themselves or their families, people will demand this A-hole be removed from office and prosecuted to the hilt, before he ties up courts forever with his brand of jack-assery.

Wherever you are, I hope you're still fighting the good fight.

-K-

[cathexis]

The socio-political environment is so full of rage. People seem to jumping in each others face. I see where it's coming from - Trump, but not sure where we're headed. Anti-Semitism is rampant. Where is that coming from? We aren't even in this equation, except the fact that we seem to be the default scape-goats. "Jews will not replace us." Where DID we get involved in the initial complaint? We weren't even a target then.

As a Jew, I am a target every time we dain to go out the door, not to mention the other things that they hate. TG, I am a quiet person. If I open my mouth, be sure that all is triple filtered, re-checking continuously. How is the recipient reacting to my words, claming up often. Ain't anonymity great?

Back to the purpose of this post - rage and civil war. I, too, believe that we're already in this stage, an active civil war complete with weapons. Free falling toward what, I don't know. It's beyond recognizable now. All this rage is scary, as a person who generally doesn't handle anger well. It's the most uncomfortable emotion for me. F bombs are becoming the first curse word out of folks mouth. In my speech, they're used for absolute emphasis. Many people seem angry all the time. Where is it all coming from?

When talking politics, the rage is palpable. What can people accomplish being so angry? One can't make political changes with anger, but maybe that's the point. The ability to discuss ends when someone displays anger. Hats off to mediators who deal with rage filled people.