2020 Presidential Election

[Martina]

Everybody's all nervous about the swing states, but this week seems to indicate that Democrats are getting back the suburbs and the Obama/Trump voters. If so, that means Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan return to blue. Trump could still win. And he does have the cheating Republican party and the Kremlin working for him. I've been playing with an electoral college map, and my best predictions make it all come down to Colorado for a seven electoral vote victory for whoever wins it. Our future in the hands of Colorado? Well, they went blue in 2016, so maybe we are ok.

[Martina]

So, Bloomberg. What do you think?

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by Martina

So, Bloomberg. What do you think?

I think he saw Biden flailing and decided he needed to put on his capitalist cape and swoop in to save us from Bernie/Warren

[Martina]

Mayor Pete's moving on up.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/11/12/pol...www.cnn.com%2F

[Martina]

Warren dropped by half. It's either her Medicare plan, which supports those a who think centrist policies will prevail, or just Mayor Pete doing better at her expense. Biden is still on top. Biden looks frail, and Pete is pretty cool. But if it's all about winning the general election, and you had to choose between those two, Biden would be the better bet. But Sanders is still number two, and polls show him doing better against Trump than Biden would. And he held his own in the same poll so I don't think this is a reaction to Medicare for all. Pete's just kicking ass out there.

[charley]

Originally Posted by Martina

Warren dropped by half. It's either her Medicare plan, which supports those a who think centrist policies will prevail, or just Mayor Pete doing better at her expense. Biden is still on top. Biden looks frail, and Pete is pretty cool. But if it's all about winning the general election, and you had to choose between those two, Biden would be the better bet. But Sanders is still number two, and polls show him doing better against Trump than Biden would. And he held his own in the same poll so I don't think this is a reaction to Medicare for all. Pete's just kicking ass out there.

My original thought was that Warren was doing well until she announced her policy - that is, eliminating choice for health care, and how she would finance it. That just won't wash for a large majority of Americans. After keeping an eye on polls and watching news, it still seems that that is the case. I wonder if it is possible now for Warren to backtrack and change her mind on that. It just seems so strange to me that these candidates seem to be entirely locked in their positions. Doesn't anyone talk to them and advise them that they might lose 'cause they won't budge on their positions? I mean, doesn't anyone worry enough that Trump might win a second term, unless some candidate rises to the top against him that is willing to understand that most Americans who vote Democrat have a moderate bent?

Pete is doing well 'cause of his "centrist"/moderate viewpoint and this appeals to many Americans, and this is also why Biden is still ahead in the polls (I still don't trust Pete).

[JDeere]

All I have to say is that I hope to hell people vote no matter who they vote for, I am seeing a huge downfall of young folks not voting even some older folks as well.

I dont know if they dont get that its a right they have to vote or they dont truly care.

[Kätzchen]

That was a pretty amazing Op-Ed over on CNN about Nancy Pelosi: If she ran for President, She'd Beat T---p.


And I would most certainly vote for her too.


Anybody else sick of seeing or hearing about or learning about the latest dastardly game-plan by McConnell and Graham, et al?


Go Team Pelosi, Team Schiff and Team Nadler. RIP Team Cummings (my heart is still broken over the loss of REP Cummings (D).

Nothing could make me happier than for long standing GOP senators to lose their long held seats of in the US Senate. That and Democrats winning in a landslide for President and in the US Senate and maintaining the US House of Representatives. That would make the year 2020 the best gift to the world, ever. Please oh Please, that's my wish for next year.

[homoe]

Republican Sen. Susan Collins has a well-funded Democrat prepping to challenge her next year. She has national women’s groups ready to attack her over her vote for Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh. And she’s a moderate facing an electorate that increasingly prioritizes purity. Still, the four-term Maine senator’s biggest hurdle to re-election may be the president of her own party.

President Trump’s potential impeachment in the House and subsequent trial in the Senate presents a distinct dilemma for Collins. Of the handful of Republicans senators facing re-election next year, she has done perhaps the most to keep a clear distance from Trump.

https://www.pressherald.com/2019/11/...ection-hurdle/

[homoe]

Originally Posted by homoe

Republican Sen. Susan Collins has a well-funded Democrat prepping to challenge her next year. She has national women’s groups ready to attack her over her vote for Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh. And she’s a moderate facing an electorate that increasingly prioritizes purity. Still, the four-term Maine senator’s biggest hurdle to re-election may be the president of her own party.

President Trump’s potential impeachment in the House and subsequent trial in the Senate presents a distinct dilemma for Collins. Of the handful of Republicans senators facing re-election next year, she has done perhaps the most to keep a clear distance from Trump.

https://www.pressherald.com/2019/11/...ection-hurdle/

Clearly her word is worthless! She's served four-term already!

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by charley

My original thought was that Warren was doing well until she announced her policy - that is, eliminating choice for health care, and how she would finance it. That just won't wash for a large majority of Americans. After keeping an eye on polls and watching news, it still seems that that is the case. I wonder if it is possible now for Warren to backtrack and change her mind on that. It just seems so strange to me that these candidates seem to be entirely locked in their positions. Doesn't anyone talk to them and advise them that they might lose 'cause they won't budge on their positions? I mean, doesn't anyone worry enough that Trump might win a second term, unless some candidate rises to the top against him that is willing to understand that most Americans who vote Democrat have a moderate bent?

Pete is doing well 'cause of his "centrist"/moderate viewpoint and this appeals to many Americans, and this is also why Biden is still ahead in the polls (I still don't trust Pete).

Warren lost me with her waffling on Medicare for All. I switched my monthly donation from her to Castro. At this point i am only donating to Castro and Sanders.

[C0LLETTE]

Anybody remember George McGovern?

"In the general election on November 7, 1972, the McGovern–Shriver ticket suffered a 61 percent to 37 percent defeat to Nixon – at the time, the second biggest landslide in American history, with an Electoral College total of 520 to 17. McGovern's two electoral vote victories came in Massachusetts and the District of Columbia, and he failed to win his home state of South Dakota Over the nation as a whole he carried a mere 135 counties. At just over four percent of the nation's counties, McGovern's county wins remain the fewest by almost a factor of three for any major-party nominee." (Thanks Wikipedia).

Nixon won.

I'm sure there are still some Democrats around who remember that idealistic disaster.

[homoe]

Originally Posted by C0LLETTE

Anybody remember George McGovern?

"In the general election on November 7, 1972, the McGovern–Shriver ticket suffered a 61 percent to 37 percent defeat to Nixon – at the time, the second biggest landslide in American history, with an Electoral College total of 520 to 17. McGovern's two electoral vote victories came in Massachusetts and the District of Columbia, and he failed to win his home state of South Dakota Over the nation as a whole he carried a mere 135 counties. At just over four percent of the nation's counties, McGovern's county wins remain the fewest by almost a factor of three for any major-party nominee." (Thanks Wikipedia).

Nixon won.

I'm sure there are still some Democrats around who remember that idealistic disaster.

Indeed, I am old enough to remember this!

[C0LLETTE]

ok then, homoe...lol

Then you also probably appreciate the perils of being too far ahead of the electorate. They don't seem to favour fascists or socialists but if that's the only choice they are less scared of fascists...and they are easier to salute so you can show your loyalty and stay "safe".

[nhplowboi]

Am I just a suspicious sort? Does anyone else think it is odd or just me that BOTH the app failed to work at the Iowa Caucus and THEN the help phone line would not answer? Seems like both those things needed to run the Caucus could easily be breached by anyone with a little knowledge. Also how is it Donald has his highest poll rating after his actions caused the downing of an airliner with all lives lost and serious injury to 64 soldiers in Iraq?!

[nhplowboi]

Also I was kind of neutral on Bernie until I went looking around to see what he is about. If what I read is to be believed, he actually sounds like a clone of Trump but reversed and liberal ie give money away in general vs give money away to your rich friends. Hearing Bernie's first serious job wasn't until the age of 40 means I am not interested in seeing this man run our country.

[~ocean]

Originally Posted by nhplowboi

Also I was kind of neutral on Bernie until I went looking around to see what he is about. If what I read is to be believed, he actually sounds like a clone of Trump but reversed and liberal ie give money away in general vs give money away to your rich friends. Hearing Bernie's first serious job wasn't until the age of 40 means I am not interested in seeing this man run our country.

^5 NH I am not a fan of Sanders at all..... talks out both sides of his mouth on a few very imp. issues.

[GeorgiaMa'am]

Originally Posted by nhplowboi

Am I just a suspicious sort? Does anyone else think it is odd or just me that BOTH the app failed to work at the Iowa Caucus and THEN the help phone line would not answer? Seems like both those things needed to run the Caucus could easily be breached by anyone with a little knowledge. . .

I heard on NPR that the Democratic party paid $68,000 to the company (Shadow - something) to create the app. This small amount leads me to believe that it was probably written by some computer geek working out of their garage, and the (Shadow - something) company is probably just one or two people - hence, that's why nobody could get through on the phone line.

You get what you pay for.

[dark_crystal]

I...sincerely cannot believe this caucus debacle. This was NOT the year to try anything fancy or new, like a f*cking app when the plain ol POTS telephone has always worked fine and there was never a primary that needed to be cleaner than this one.

I...am starting to believe the Bernie bros were right and the primary was rigged against him in 2016 and will be rigged against him this time, too.

At the very least i am starting to believe the Democrats are not serious, or that they are serious about helping Wall Street and the health insurance companies and only that.

They are not the opposition, they are the status quo's backup plan.

I gave Sanders an extra donation last night and put my local DSA on a recurring monthly donation.

I have liked Pete in the past and Warren as well, but i am not supporting a candidate who waffles on M4A or who caps student loan relief

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by dark_crystal

They are not afraid. They are capitalism's backup plan.

The Democrats as they currently exist are allowed to diverge from the Republicans only to the degree which leaves the flow of wealth intact. The flow can narrow within certain margins if it has to, but it cannot be redistributed.

(As much as i have ranted against the idea in other threads, I'm not obtuse, I know that this is what Chapo Traphouse is talking about when they call identity issues a distraction. It is true that there can be huge differences in how the two parties treat minorities without any real threat to most industries' profits.)

As long as social stratification is preserved, capital ultimately doesn't care about the identities inside those strata. The GOP sees that it's easiest and most profitable to just preserve traditional race and gender stratification, while the Democrats are able to look progressive in their willingness to let identities mix within strata, or to sacrifice a variably-sized slice of still-healthy profits to keep people in the lowest strata alive.

Capital does not want to accommodate this sacrifice, but it can easily survive it. The GOP way is more profitable, and therefore preferable, but if they should happen to go too far and fall from grace for awhile, their Democratic replacements will be tolerable. A backup plan.

The thing is, capitalism is not going to survive the things humans are going to have to do to survive on this planet. We keep trying to find ways around that by using tax credits to reward capital for certain sacrifices, but it was already too late for that in 2008.

We are going to fight capital every step of the way and at the end? When what's left of us are eking out our survival down in the caves or whatever?

It's going to be socialist as heck down there.

oh i see i am repeating myself