Proposed Mosque Near Ground Zero

[FeminineAllure]

I think it would be nice to have a space for all beliefs and religions to come together to spend time. A tribute to all faiths of those who were killed as well as their family members. It would bring people together rather than seperate them.

[The_Lady_Snow]

So where can Muslims go that is gonna be OK for all Christian folks?

I mean come on FA why can't this Community Center be built near Ground Zero?

Would it be better had it been a Christian church? Why can't the citizens MUSLIM citizens of New York have a place to go, I am confused can you explain why you think this is not ok?

Thanks in advance

[FeminineAllure]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

So where can Muslims go that is gonna be OK for all Christian folks?

I mean come on FA why can't this Community Center be built near Ground Zero?

Would it be better had it been a Christian church? Why can't the citizens MUSLIM citizens of New York have a place to go, I am confused can you explain why you think this is not ok?

Thanks in advance

I did not state that Muslims can't build their community center near Ground Zero. Or that the space would be better if it was a Christian church. I never said it was not ok. In my opinion I stated I felt that space would be *better used as a place for *all faiths and religions* to be able to go to* pay tribute being so close to Ground Zero. And if it was a Christian space available or any other religion I would feel the same way.
I hold nothing personal against Musilims or any other religion Lady Snow. Or do I think any religion is better than any other one.
I hope I clarified my thoughts better this time.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by FeminineAllure

I did not state that Muslims can't build their community center near Ground Zero. Or that the space would be better if it was a Christian church. I never said it was not ok. In my opinion I stated I felt that space would be *better used as a place for *all faiths and religions* to be able to go to* pay tribute being so close to Ground Zero. And if it was a Christian space available or any other religion I would feel the same way.
I hold nothing personal against Musilims or any other religion Lady Snow. Or do I think any religion is better than any other one.
I hope I clarified my thoughts better this time.

Why though?

Why can't Muslim's have this place to go to? Why can't there be a Community Center built so close?

What is your reasoning?

Truly curious, thanks in advance

[FeminineAllure]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Why though?

Why can't Muslim's have this place to go to? Why can't there be a Community Center built so close?

What is your reasoning?

Truly curious, thanks in advance

As I stated to Toughy. I chose a poor word choice. I surely am not the only one on this site to do that. I own up to my mistakes. That is the best I can do.
I feel any religion that has access to building a community center and a prayer room so close to Ground Zero would be really compassionate to share that space with other faiths.
Unless a strip joint or liquor store would be willing to sell their business to offer a space nearby as well. Which is not going to happen.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by FeminineAllure

As I stated to Toughy. I chose a poor word choice. I surely am not the only one on this site to do that. I own up to my mistakes. That is the best I can do.
I feel any religion that has access to building a community center and a prayer room so close to Ground Zero would be really compassionate to share that space with other faiths.
Unless a strip joint or liquor store would be willing to sell their business to offer a space nearby as well. Which is not going to happen.

Why is it so scary for Muslims to build a community center? Why is it disrespecful?

Why is it wrong for Muslims to build a community center so close to Ground Zero?

You do realize many Muslims were killed during that attack. I don't understand why it's not ok ?

Who is it going to hurt? scare? Insult?

[paposeco]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Why is it so scary for Muslims to build a community center? Why is it disrespecful?

Why is it wrong for Muslims to build a community center so close to Ground Zero?

You do realize many Muslims were killed during that attack. I don't understand why it's not ok ?

Who is it going to hurt? scare? Insult?

Thank You. If a so called christian based faith wanted to do the same, (oh wait..they have their churches...) would we be having this discussion? would it cause such an uproar? I doubt it. Thanks for your logic, truth, fairness and open mindedness.

[Rook]

I found this to be Very true, and thought provoking...

Two blocks is enough to generate controversy. But then it occurred to me: that's in Manhattan, which is a terrifically diverse place, both ethnically and religiously. It has large populations of Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Sikhs and "people of the Muslim faith" as Some call them (I am going to go ahead and just call them Muslims.) So as to why someone might want to build a mosque down there, well, there's probably a need.

But then I started thinking: If the WTC "sacred ground" extends for a few blocks from the actual site, what else might be down there to offend the sensibilities of, say, Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck? For instance, there's a Ground Zero Hookah bar. A Ground Zero Irish pub. A Ground Zero strip club called "New York Dolls" (Not that I knew that; I looked it up on Google Maps. Swear to god.)

There are Ground Zero hot-dog carts, Ground Zero Starbucks (how could there not be?), Ground Zero cigarette stores, and even a Ground Zero shop called "Carrot Top Pastries," which I assume isn't endorsed by THAT Carrot Top, or that would be an abomination. An abomination against good taste.

All this, just blocks from Ground Zero. Now, if you are actually AT Ground Zero, you find a Ground Zero pawn shop, A Ground Zero Chinese restaurant called Hoyip, the Ground Zero hair dresser and a Ground Zero Burger King.

All of them cutting hair, pawning jewelry and clogging American arteries without a hint of controversy.

So let me suggest two reasons why we would not have a national referendum on the mosque (actually a community center).. The first is the oft-referenced freedom of religion, and that's a pretty good reason. The second is property rights: people have the right to, more or less, do whatever they want with the property they own, as long as it is within the law (which appears to be true of the mosque).

The idea that I would have a vote on a private party doing what they have the right to do strikes me as inherently un-American.
What if we all had a vote on guns? Not on the right of gun ownership, but on which individuals could own guns.
Believe me, I know a few gun owners who, if I only had the vote...
And of course I don't, because that would be ridiculous. You know what else is ridiculous? The controversy surrounding the Ground Zero mosque. Those opposed to the mosque frame the argument in terms of respecting the sensibilities of the victims' families, and to the hallowed ground that still to this day is an undeveloped plot of land (if you're looking for a real controversy).
But let us stop pretending and call this "controversy" what it is: a xenophobic, bigoted attack on the religion of over a billion people, 37,000 of whom live in Manhattan: those "of the Muslim faith."

Thomas Strodtbeck
Liverpool, United Kingdom
(Formerly of Athens)

[Toughy]

FA......

It is NOT a Mosque. It is a Community Center that also has a prayer room. It's called the Cordoba House.

How is that inappropriate, considering the number of strip joints and liquor stores that are closer to that 'sacred ground'?

Does that change your opinion?

[FeminineAllure]

Originally Posted by Toughy

FA......

It is NOT a Mosque. It is a Community Center that also has a prayer room. It's called the Cordoba House.

How is that inappropriate, considering the number of strip joints and liquor stores that are closer to that 'sacred ground'?

Does that change your opinion?

I admit that *Inappropriate* is a poor word choice.
I still belive it would be nice to have an all faiths space to go to pay tribute and remember lost loved ones of who were of many different faiths.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by FeminineAllure

I admit that *Inappropriate* is a poor word choice.
I still belive it would be nice to have an all faiths space to go to pay tribute and remember lost loved ones of who were of many different faiths.

Do you feel the Community Center is being built as some kind of tribute ?

I am confused by this as well, thanks in advance

[AtLast]

[QUOTE=Toughy;186210]FA......

It is NOT a Mosque. It is a Community Center that also has a prayer room. It's called the Cordoba House.

[QUOTE]

I KNOW! It is making me crazy that it keeps being called a mosque! Isn't it interesting, that each and every Muslim spokesperson on the media coverage going on, refers to it as a community center with a prayer room. But, non-Muslims keep calling it a mosque. I actually think the media has fed this whole thing.

I had friends in the towers that day, some of which did not make it out as well as co-workers and friends of all of them. I have family and friends in NYC, NJ CT and in PA (all of which i do not get to see often, dammit) that live and work around this area. My 2 remaining friends connected with this group of people in my life that got out do NOT have a problem with this community center being built there at all. Nor do members of my family living there. All of them think it is time heal and that a community center with a Muslim connection may very well help do this. They also feel that the media is heating this up a lot, mainly by continuing to refer to as a mosque and not correcting stories being circulated.

I have no idea how all of the family and friends of those killed that day feel about this or the rest of the City of New York. I don't trust what has been covered about this at this point at all.

What I feel deeply is that if this center's construction is stopped, it will set precident for any Muslim building being proposed all over the US, including mosques and that is just wrong! True Muslims were not responsible for the 9/11 attacks.

[weatherboi]

hey ALH-

i highlighted the part of your post i am speaking to.
here is an interview with a woman whose pregnant daughter was killed in 9/11 that i posted earlier on in the thread.

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

I KNOW! It is making me crazy that it keeps being called a mosque! Isn't it interesting, that each and every Muslim spokesperson on the media coverage going on, refers to it as a community center with a prayer room. But, non-Muslims keep calling it a mosque. I actually think the media has fed this whole thing.

I had friends in the towers that day, some of which did not make it out as well as co-workers and friends of all of them. I have family and friends in NYC, NJ CT and in PA (all of which i do not get to see often, dammit) that live and work around this area. My 2 remaining friends connected with this group of people in my life that got out do NOT have a problem with this community center being built there at all. Nor do members of my family living there. All of them think it is time heal and that a community center with a Muslim connection may very well help do this. They also feel that the media is heating this up a lot, mainly by continuing to refer to as a mosque and not correcting stories being circulated.

I have no idea how all of the family and friends of those killed that day feel about this or the rest of the City of New York. I don't trust what has been covered about this at this point at all.

What I feel deeply is that if this center's construction is stopped, it will set precident for any Muslim building being proposed all over the US, including mosques and that is just wrong! True Muslims were not responsible for the 9/11 attacks.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

hey ALH-

i highlighted the part of your post i am speaking to.
here is an interview with a woman whose pregnant daughter was killed in 9/11 that i posted earlier on in the thread.

Thanks so much for re-posting this. I watch "Keith" often, but missed this one. Thinking that my friend, a survivor might be involved with this group. Would make sense.

I know this is a tough one for so many and I was home only a couple of days from a trip back to NYC when it hit. Just was with these friends and some family, danced at one of the music production at the Towers during lunch hour that used to go there. Frankly, I loved going to those buildings. But, we can't allow the hate-filled bigotry based upon so much misinformation take away some of the things I have hope will be restored to the US, namely our rich immigrant history and the contributions so many have brought here.

[MsMerrick]

Kooch, not really clear what you are saying. While your first link, the wikipedia one, seems not too unbalanced, your second link is clearly inflammatory and not based on facts. Since it starts off by claiming that a Mosque is being built on the ground where the Twin Towers were, right away, I see lies and falsehoods, and slanderous utterances.
You also quote a bit from the Imam's wife, but not the whole sentence, which makes more sense than your snippet.
Full quote :
While the media widely described the center as a mosque, and the protests were against the mosque, the Initiative's official blog portrayed it as a community center with prayer space, making comparisons to the YMCA or Jewish Community Center.[85] The Initiative said that some services planned for the Cordoba House, such as the restaurant and performance center, disqualify it from being a mosque.[86] Daisy Khan, Imam Rauf’s wife and partner, in August 2010 also said:

We insist on calling it a prayer space and not a mosque, because you can use a prayer space for activities apart from prayer. You can't stop anyone who is a Muslim despite his religious ideology from entering the mosque and staying there. With a prayer space, we can control who gets to use it.[51]

The official website for the facility says it will include "a mosque, intended to be run separately from Park51 but open to and accessible to all members, visitors and our New York community".[87]

Besides the Muslim prayer space, the Initiative's plan includes a 500-seat auditorium, theater, performing arts center, fitness center, swimming pool, basketball court, childcare services, art exhibitions, bookstore, culinary school, and a food court serving halal dishes.[37][21][66][74][88][7]

I am not sure what that quote meant to you, but want it meant to me, was that they don't want fanatical hatred filled fanatics, using the space.
As a native New Yorker, born in New York City, and also quite present that day, I am fully for, not letting the Terrorists win, and that means, supporting the Constitution, and refusing to discriminate against any religion. Either we are better then them or we are not.
There's no religion in my book that is better than any other, and I gather in yours. ( Which seems to mark a change for you ? ) but I do believe in the Constitution, and the rule of law, and that means a balanced across the board freedom, for religions.
At some point, I wondered a lot, how Hitler, came to power..and..what about the everyday people / Did they collectively rise up and decide to just over look evil ? Or did they decide to participate. How did that all happen ? Look into it sometime, because I tell you true, the way things are going, the rise of populist "leaders" like Palin and Beck, and this Islamaphobia, correlate way too closely .. Evil does exist, imho, but it exists wherever ignorance and sloppy thinking trump reason, not some shadowy figure.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

But, non-Muslims keep calling it a mosque. I actually think the media has fed this whole thing.

That much should be obvious by now, methinks. If it weren't for the repercussions of the media and American public's ignorance and fear of Islam, this situation would actually be insanely hilarious if only because of people's blatant stupidity.

Muslims: "We're going to build a community centre."
American media/public "Aaaaahhhh Mosque! Terror cell! Aaaaahhh!"
Muslims: "But...it's a community centre..."
American media/public: "How COULD you build a Mosque so close to the 911 site!?"
Muslims: "Umm....community centre?"
American media/public: "The horror of it! How could they build a Mosque! Oh god, the inhumanity!"
Muslims: "But there is already a Mosque some blocks away that has been here since before 911...and we aren't building a Mosque. It's a community centre..."
American media/public: "OH MY GOD A MOSQUE!!!! Terrorists are funding it! How can we let terrorists build a terror mosque so close to the 911 site!"
Muslims:*sigh*

A friend of mine showed me this amusing Daily Show clip. The stupidity of American news networks continues to astound me...

http://www.thecomedynetwork.ca/Displ...9-39b86da82f80

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by FeminineAllure

I think it would be nice to have a space for all beliefs and religions to come together to spend time. A tribute to all faiths of those who were killed as well as their family members. It would bring people together rather than seperate them.

They are building a memorial that will serve this purpose right there ON ground zero. Do you think there needs to be more than one memorial?

Besides what about the atheists that were killed during 9/11?

Continuing to couch 9/11 in religious terms is divisive, not the building of a Islamic Community Center a couple of blocks away. Islam did not fly airplanes into the WTC. A bunch of fundamentalist wahhabist educated terrorists who were all from Saudi Arabia did the deed.