Open Letter: Dear Femme

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by kat6071

Thanks Bit!

Snow, Isa, I was actually quoting you, Snow and I totally agree with you. We need to speak up for ourselves and not let anyone answer for us..no matter who it is. It's not about femme's asking questions, .. it's about letting butches answer for or about us.. We don't need to question ourselves at all....that's what I meant.

sorry for confusion...

Thank you so much for answering Kat!! My brain is in low gear today along with my body

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Thank you so much for answering Kat!! My brain is in low gear today along with my body

My brain is missing pieces. I win!

[cara]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Me too! Did you ever feel others were suspect of you when you were single? Did you feel less visible? Less valued?

I have spent a large portion of my life single. Going to butch-femme events as a single femme is just plain HARD. So, now I have a love-hate relationship with the larger b-f events. It takes every fiber of my being to remain positive and not start self-hating at those events. I often do feel left out or suspect by others. I don't know that this is because I am projecting my own fears onto the situation or if people really are purposefully leaving me out. Maybe a little of both? Who knows.

On a totally unrelated note, I spend an awful lot of time responding to posts and never actually posting what I've written because I am fearful of offending someone or not sounding academic enough. So, in a way, I guess I'm silencing myself.

I'm working to overcome some of these irrational fears and reading the posts in this thread is very helpful and fills me with hope. You are all so amazing and insightful! Thank you for your support and words!!!

~cara

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by cara

I have spent a large portion of my life single. Going to butch-femme events as a single femme is just plain HARD. So, now I have a love-hate relationship with the larger b-f events. It takes every fiber of my being to remain positive and not start self-hating at those events. I often do feel left out or suspect by others. I don't know that this is because I am projecting my own fears onto the situation or if people really are purposefully leaving me out. Maybe a little of both? Who knows.

On a totally unrelated note, I spend an awful lot of time responding to posts and never actually posting what I've written because I am fearful of offending someone or not sounding academic enough. So, in a way, I guess I'm silencing myself.

I'm working to overcome some of these irrational fears and reading the posts in this thread is very helpful and fills me with hope. You are all so amazing and insightful! Thank you for your support and words!!!

~cara

(((Cara))) I felt left out in Vegas but I took a few good friends with me, so it wasn't so bad. I did feel disconnected though. You are probably not imagining that.

Your posts are great and do NOT need to sound academic. Promise. Just post what you feel and as long as you are not outright hating, it will be fine. I'm glad you find this thread helpful because you are amazing too!

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by June

Give it a rest, FBG and go get me a cup of virtual tea.

Daddy June wants in on the Big Mac dealio. I can tell.
Pours a cuppa for Daddy to go with her virtual apple butter.

[little man]

i wanted to thank everyone who is participating in this thread. i'm finding much food for thought here. i appreciate the opportunity to learn to be a better ally. y'all seriously rock.

[blush]

Hmmmm...sounds like a new femme drinking game for the reunion...

Take a shot every time we hear a load of shit about ourselves or others?

We could call it Shooting the Shit.

[blush]

Originally Posted by June

Well. We let them open our doors for us, buy our drinks and hold our purses, why wouldn't they think they could also speak for us as well? And you know, I am saying this tongue in cheek, but there is some truth to it too, I think. I have seen Femme's give their power away to their partners. Come to think of it, I've seen it happen in all kinds of relationships, but we're talking about Femme's right now.

I get your point, but I don't think allowing someone to open a door for me or show those "old school" manners means that I've handed over my power.

For me, it's a cultural way of showing respect. When Goof does it, it's one of his ways of taking care of me. Certainly it's not the only way, but it was the way I was raised, so it is familiar and comfortable to me. I actually feel more powerful with those manners because I feel like I am being deferred to.

[Random]

I so want to be a part of this conversation, but my nuerons are not firing.. So, I'm going to stop trying to craft this post into anything but the most basic of questions..

After reading some of the rummors that have been flying around for years (?) (I'm more than slightly self involved and am just hearing them now)


Why? I really want to know why people feel the need to tear each other down, spread rummors, tell lies, trying to make someone seem small, or petty... Why tear people down to make yourself feel important?

This is a question that has occupied my thoughts most of my life?

I pretty well walk through life with blinders on.. I have no clue as to what people think of me.. It's always such a shocker to find that not only has someone even thought of me, but that they put the time and effort into talking about me to someone.. Blink..

Last year I started talking to a butch that was friends of a friend of my LT ex.. Some of the things that he passed on to me.. ABOUT ME put me in a state of shock.. Why the hell was someone wasting their time and energy warning this butch about ME??? (Hell, all anyone has to do is read my posts for the last eight years and they will know just about everything about me..)

Apparently, I was a liar, a whore, a cheat, a horrible mother, a gold digger, wouldn't clean or cook,or hold down a job and spent all my time on the internet..

Amazing what you find out about your self from someone you have never met.

The friend of a friend of my ex's was a femme that while I never thought of as a friend, I didn't think of as an enemy..

I ask why... Why do we have to be catty and nasty to each other? I'm not talking snark.. or interpersonal relationships... I'm talking soul biting nastyness.. The kind that if you have a cricket in your head, she is screaming her lungs out at you while you try to sleep..

I don't want to hear about how no one does it... I know I did it twice when I was younger and my cricket was out partying.. I did it out of jealousy and envy... I also know that I wouldn't ever do it again..

I want to hear why you did it...

[Puplove]

Originally Posted by blush

I get your point, but I don't think allowing someone to open a door for me or show those "old school" manners means that I've handed over my power.

For me, it's a cultural way of showing respect. When Goof does it, it's one of his ways of taking care of me. Certainly it's not the only way, but it was the way I was raised, so it is familiar and comfortable to me. I actually feel more powerful with those manners because I feel like I am being deferred to.

I agree with this - for me, I hold the power to decide to allow someone to open a door, get me a drink, etc. (it's not always a butch/femme situation, I like to do the same for other folks when it would be a nice, friendly, non-patronizing thing to do). I love receiving these compliments in that spirit of respect, and I am more powerful for complimenting them back with my acceptance.

However, if I wait for a butch or anyone else to speak/do something for me because I feel afraid or if I believe that someone won't like me or won't think I'm as cute if I show I have a brain and speak for myself, I just handed over every ounce of self and power to another. (does not apply to when I don't speak up etc because I have chosen to be in that dynamic with another).

And considering what Cara said about not posting - I also often do not post in serious threads because others either say what I would have said before I get caught up in the thread and the point has been made, or because I feel I can learn a lot more from listening/reading rather than thinking up what I want to say. Maybe I silence myself, but I don't see it that way.

P.S. About being academic enough - to me, the more academically something is said, the less effectively and meaningfully it gets communicated. Simple is powerful.

[apretty]

Originally Posted by June

Well. We let them open our doors for us, buy our drinks and hold our purses, why wouldn't they think they could also speak for us as well? And you know, I am saying this tongue in cheek, but there is some truth to it too, I think. I have seen Femme's give their power away to their partners. Come to think of it, I've seen it happen in all kinds of relationships, but we're talking about Femme's right now.

i bolded this portion because it was something that i was going to speak to on the 'exlusion' thread: femmes who defer to all things "butch", those that aggressively hand over their power as if subjugating herself were an art form (newsflash: that's totally weird).

[Arwen]

Originally Posted by apretty

i bolded this portion because it was something that i was going to speak to on the 'exlusion' thread: femmes who defer to all things "butch", those that aggressively hand over their power as if subjugating herself were an art form (newsflash: that's totally weird).

I think it may be weird if it is not a known TPE (Total Power Exchange) relationship. I've been in those (with bio males and butches). Giving up the power is freeing on one hand but there is a loss of self if you and your Dominant are not careful.

I've seen some seriously kick-ass strong femmes in these relationships. They are not doormats. As someone else said (Snow?) those submissives were some of the strongest women I've ever known.

And I have also seen what the negative side of that turns people into--grasping, clinging, whining, can't make a decision to pee or poop by themselves. It's ugly. And there's no saving those types from themselves. They will keep going back to that type of relationship until they wise up and grow the spine necessary.

I know. I used to be one.

[apretty]

Originally Posted by Arwen

I think it may be weird if it is not a known TPE (Total Power Exchange) relationship. I've been in those (with bio males and butches). Giving up the power is freeing on one hand but there is a loss of self if you and your Dominant are not careful.

ah, you're right and i wasn't clear--i meant to speak specifically about a femme who isn't necessarily connected in any way to the butch she's deferring to. but good point on the TPE.

[Bit]

Originally Posted by June

I've had people get so irritated with me because I truly believe that if I am a Femme (And I am) and I am fucking someone other than a Butch, I don't lose my Femme card and become Bi, Straight or, um, other? I am a Femme, regardless.

EXACTLY.

In my world, Femme is neither what we wear nor what we do--nor whom we do. Femme is who and what we ARE. Nobody--N O B O D Y--can take it away from us.

Originally Posted by June

No, wait. It was the time I said that anyone who sleeps with me is Queer. That pissed a lot of people off.

Omg, you're kidding! They didn't get that?!

Well, I suppose the context might make a difference on that one, come to think of it.... if I said that to a Transman, I don't think it would necessarily sit well, cuz yanno, Man + Femme does not equal Queer unless the Transman himself already identifies as Queer. But anyone else I might sleep with? Hell YES it would make them Queer to sleep with me... that's the societal definition of Queer, two females having sex, and I am definitely female--so YEAH, if other female-bodied people sleep with me, it means they must be Queer, whether they were before or not.

I'm picking up this undercurrent in your post, June, please correct me if I'm wrong... but this statement about people being Queer because they sleep with you, it's about power, right? It's about the subtle perception that only Butches, being masculine, have the power to claim sexuality, to "make people Queer" through sex? Am I reading you right that people were angry because they saw you "usurping" that masculine power?

If I'm reading you right, THAT is most definitely not only masculine-centric but also male-centric, since it would be derived from the cultural idea that sex belongs to males and females must neither initiate nor enjoy it.

Overthrow that stereotype! Claim that power, Sister Femmes! Viva la toaster oven!

[Bit]

Cara, hon, I wanted to answer you specifically.

Originally Posted by Cara

On a totally unrelated note, I spend an awful lot of time responding to posts and never actually posting what I've written because I am fearful of offending someone or not sounding academic enough. So, in a way, I guess I'm silencing myself.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Cara}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} I have been there, I have been there, I have been there. It is a most uncomfortable feeling for me, yanno? Usually it's a fear of offending people, although sometimes when a convo has been strongly academic I have thrown up my hands and walked away because I just haven't been able to muster up the energy to .......omg, I just almost said "compete" when I meant to say "participate"!!

That pretty much tells me about the threads where I have run into that--none on this site, btw--but oh, how telling!

Well, anyhow. What I mean to say to you is start slow. Take baby steps. Your post here is a marvelous start, very courageous. Speak from your heart, darlin, and the more you do it, the easier it will get.

Sometimes a person just has to break through that fear barrier one step at a time. Soon enough, you won't be silencing yourself any longer.

[SuperFemme]

Anybody I have ever slept with is Queer. Mind you I have four kids. Why are they Queer? Because when I give myself or take somebody else I am doing so a a Femme. I don't care if it is a transman, a bio-man, the Fed-Ex guy/girl, or that one nun from high school. The act of fucking ME is also an act of queering the other person. I'm not a heterosexual. I'm not straight. When I hop into bed it is not as a straight woman, but rather a Queer Femme. So. I don't care if my fellow fuckee is a straight identified transman or any variety of man. They are engaging in a homosexual act.

Luckily there is only one person whom I fuck. I consider hym to be faggy.

[evolveme]

I love y'all, and I think I understand why some of you share this conceptualization around queering others by virtue of fucking them, but it doesn't work for me, and here's why: Although I hold an identity as queer lesbian (femme is my gender) my sexual orientation is more accurately pansexual. It would not work for me whatsoever if by having sex with a straight leaning male-identified fella, a straight heterosexual transman, or a straight bio male that any of these folks decide I were "straightened out" by the act of sex with them.

I think we have the capacity to affect one another on all kinds of levels when we engage this way, but never in the way that we identify, unless that mechanism is not held consciously by us.

See, if it's an act of taking back power for us to say that anyone who fucks me is queered by me, then I feel that power was artificial in the first place because it cannot work both ways. If it only works for me, and not him, then it's a lesser power. He'd think of it as trite, possibly.

I don't want a trite power. I want a whole one.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by evolveme

I love y'all, and I think I understand why some of you share this conceptualization around queering others by virtue of fucking them, but it doesn't work for me, and here's why: Although I hold an identity as queer lesbian (femme is my gender) my sexual orientation is more accurately pansexual. It would not work for me whatsoever if by having sex with a straight leaning male-identified fella, a straight heterosexual transman, or a straight bio male that any of these folks decide I were "straightened out" by the act of sex with them.

I think we have the capacity to affect one another on all kinds of levels when we engage this way, but never in the way that we identify, unless that mechanism is not held consciously by us.

See, if it's an act of taking back power for us to say that anyone who fucks me is queered by me, then I feel that power was artificial in the first place because it cannot work both ways. If it only works for me, and not him, then it's a lesser power. He'd think of it as trite, possibly.

I don't want a trite power. I want a whole one.

I feel one hundred percent whole in my power because the act of queering for *me* has always been consensual. Every. Single. Time.

I discuss before I leap, because I am sick and fucking tired of the world at large identifying me by whom I fuck. Nobody gets to do that to me.

Now I must confess I have had dialogue with those who would not consent with me, nor I with them. No clothes were removed after the dialogue.

The power within me is to remain Queer because it is who I am.

[evolveme]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I discuss before I leap, because I am sick and fucking tired of the world at large identifying me by whom I fuck.

This rather relates to what y'all were discussing before in the way a femme's (and I would say, a feminine person's) agency shifts when she is single. Aspersions are cast, rumors are flung, assumptions run like flood waters. She is identified by both who she is fucking and who she isn't (i.e., who it is assumed she is fucking).

I love that you've made your queer a conscious conversation. This is so important, perhaps especially for women. Sometimes, this has been true for me as well. But either way, it can never be negated. I don't need it to be true for anyone else. I don't have to make it true for them for it to remain true for me. Queer has less, these days, to do with who or how I've fucked than how I think.

I believe we're more alike that way, and in most ways, probably, than we could ever be different. And that is the reason, after all, that I found a home in femme. Why my queer is centered here.

[Isadora]

Being femme is part of my internal identity. It is who I am not who I date. It is part of my locus.

I am unique unto the world, as is everyone one of us. Like most people searching for community we are thrilled when we find family, then more than a little disappointed when the "family" is different or does not live up to what I expected. Sort of like "Yay, I found b/f, my people! There are tons of people out there just like me!" Then "OMG, there are republicans, meat eaters, liars, femmes in tennis shoes, bullies, butches with long hair, crazies, players (fill in the blank) and people who don't like each other."

The other part I think I need to remind myself about is that disagreeing with you does not mean I don't like you. This leap is taken way to often. I may not agree with your politics, your sexual expression, your gnat size brain, your sense of humor but it does not mean I don't like you. I am amazed at the times I get "I don't think she likes me." People. Really.

If I don't like you I ignore you cause I am old and cranky and I don't like wasting my time on you. A very wise woman once told me, "Deb not everyone is going to like you and you are not going to like everyone. So, just accept it and be yourself."

The older I get the less I like people speaking FOR me. Anyone. Femme or Butch. I speak for myself, I am a big girl I can also handle being questioned or asked for clarification. I still speak for myself, not my gender, not my race, not my community, not my relationships...I speak for me. I don't appreciate, any more, any other form of being. Keep your damn self off my words and just ask me what I meant, don't interpret for me or assume. Sometimes I may ask someone to speak for me but I get to choose who that is for me. All this said, after all I am a hothead Aries, let me think about it before I answer. Give me a little time. I, also post with trepidation sometimes, because people assume they understand and react rather than think.

I evolve. I change. I listen, think and review my own beliefs, actions and thoughts. Just because I said it five years ago in a middle of a post does not mean I have not transformed into a new thought pattern. Jeeshhh, people change, ideas change, priorities change, life changes, I change. Be pretty damn sad if I didn't. I am not the same person I was 10 years ago, I am not the same person I was five months ago...