Outrageous!

[tapu]

I've noticed, on a few threads, that people are kind of, um, touchy today....


Anyway, Yellow Band's brief outline of the difference btwn TSA and what we're referring to as "real" security makes very good sense to me. I have no objective data to shore it up, but it seems logical:

TSA is the "security theater"--it is there precisely to make people aware that they can't bring potentiallly dangerous stuff onto an airplane. This is particularly relevant in the cases YB pointed out: with wannabes, and copycats. Oh, and assholes. I would add, assholes.

"Real Security" is looking for organized terrorist incidents, involving bombs, hijackings, bio attacks, etc. And I can see how it would be ineffective, not to say 'dumb,' if they were obvious.

Andrea, if you look back at earlier posts abotu this, you'll see this mentioned. I don't know, but do you think it's not plausible sounding?

[Andrea]

Originally Posted by tapu

I've noticed, on a few threads, that people are kind of, um, touchy today....


Anyway, Yellow Band's brief outline of the difference btwn TSA and what we're referring to as "real" security makes very good sense to me. I have no objective data to shore it up, but it seems logical:

TSA is the "security theater"--it is there precisely to make people aware that they can't bring potentiallly dangerous stuff onto an airplane. This is particularly relevant in the cases YB pointed out: with wannabes, and copycats. Oh, and assholes. I would add, assholes.

"Real Security" is looking for organized terrorist incidents, involving bombs, hijackings, bio attacks, etc. And I can see how it would be ineffective, not to say 'dumb,' if they were obvious.

Andrea, if you look back at earlier posts abotu this, you'll see this mentioned. I don't know, but do you think it's not plausible sounding?

I think it is plausible TSA is not the real security. At least I am hoping our government is not pinning our safety on the TSA. I am unconvinced that TSA is doing any level of real security work and unconvinced TSA prevents even wannabes, copycats and asshole terrorists from getting on a plane.

Andrea

[tapu]

In the sense that the very presence and the practices of the uniformed TSA officers can in many cases deter dangerous materials on a plane, and the more simplistic "terrorists" (i.e., wannabe's, copycats, etc.), then what is there has to work to some degree. I don't know how anyone could dispute that.

Let me try to be clearer: the visibility helps.

[Andrea]

Originally Posted by tapu

In the sense that the very presence and the practices of the uniformed TSA officers can in many cases deter dangerous materials on a plane, and the more simplistic "terrorists" (i.e., wannabe's, copycats, etc.), then what is there has to work to some degree. I don't know how anyone could dispute that.

Let me try to be clearer: the visibility helps.

We will have to agree to disagree because I don't believe wannabes, copycats, etc, care the least little bit about TSA and their rules. I believe if bad guys (wannabes, copycats, etc included) cared about rules, there wouldn't be so many people in jail.

Andrea

[tapu]

Let me try to be clearer: the visibility helps.


Imagine if you walked up with a boarding pass you printed out at home, and right onto an aircraft. No checks. You don't think a few people might be more likely to bring dangerous things with them, and be bad enough or nuts enough to do something with it? You don't think checking their carry-on--even the threat of checking their carry-on--has any deterrent effect?

If you think that's not a good point, then you're right. We disagree.

[Andrea]

Originally Posted by tapu

Let me try to be clearer: the visibility helps.


Imagine if you walked up with a boarding pass you printed out at home, and right onto an aircraft. No checks. You don't think a few people might be more likely to bring dangerous things with them, and be bad enough or nuts enough to do something with it? You don't think checking their carry-on--even the threat of checking their carry-on--has any deterrent effect?

If you think that's not a good point, then you're right. We disagree.

I think people are currently bringing 'dangerous' things with them, knowingly and unknowingly. TSA catches some and misses some. I think most of what TSA deems dangerous, isn't so dangerous. I think some things not listed on the TSA dangerous list are more dangerous than things that are. (I am much more afraid of 12" knitting needles than a bottle of water.)

As to people using things to do something inappropriate on the plane... I believe someone wanting to cause trouble will find a way to do so with or without things considered dangerous.

Please understand that I am not against security and I believe some level is appropriate and helpful. I am just questioning if the current level of security is appropriate and/or necessary, or should there be less or should there be more.

And shouldn't we also be checking others who may have an opportunity to place dangerous items where bad people can get them. Are you aware that pilots are not required to go through TSA security? Are you aware that many airports do not require airport employees or TSA employees to go through security? If a bad guy wanted to bribe or blackmail someone to place a dangerous object (gun, knife...), wouldn't it make more sense to select someone who has unfettered access than hope to carry one on board yourself?

Tapu, thank you for giving me the opportunity to air some of my thoughts. I appreciate the exchange.

Andrea