Atheist support, discussion, and information sharing thread

[nycfem]

Hey, Jar,

I think within our culture there are a lot of assumptions about atheists, that we are unfeeling, not in tune with the universe, don't believe in anything, etc. Actually though, there are as many types of atheists as there are religious people. I feel hurt when someone assumes I am not in tune with the universe because being in tune with the universe is so important to me. It may seem like a contradiction but I have a book called "The Little Book of Atheist Spirituality," which helps to reinforce my gut feeling that I don't have to believe in God to find all kinds of deep meaning in relationships, nature, and the universe. I even pray for others when they want it because I conceive of it as a meditation and direction of energy towards those I care about and love. I also relate it to quantum physics. Some atheists don't feel that way at all, but I just want to put out there what a struggle it can be to be automatically written off as unfeeling or lacking depth and meaning when coming out as an atheist. Belief in God, imo, is something we have or don't have. Sometimes I think it would be much easier in life if I did have it, but I don't and yet I still want to be acknowledged as someone who cares and has depth and believes and questions and is a good person. Thanks for your participation in the thread. One aspect of this thread I hadn't thought of but which Wolfy pointed out is its potential to provide some understanding of atheism for those who do believe in God but want to understand more about those of us that believe differently. I have pretended to believe in God to fit in at times in my life, but I don't want to do that because it's not authentic. I think acceptance from those who are different from us as atheists can only help us not to hide our authentic selves. I didn't choose to not believe in God, and have tried very hard to at different times in my life, but I don't, and I want to love myself as I am, because that is what feeds my soul.

Originally Posted by Jar

You're right Lady Snow and even though I have different beliefs I didn't respect the rights of others to have thiers. I apologize for the post because it was certainly disrespectful.

[Jar]

Originally Posted by nycfembbw

Hey, Jar,
One aspect of this thread I hadn't thought of but which Wolfy pointed out is its potential to provide some understanding of atheism for those who do believe in God but want to understand more about those of us that believe differently. ...I didn't choose to not believe in God, ... and I want to love myself as I am, because that is what feeds my soul.

I think I jump so fast to conclusions because I don't understand it and have never really had a conversation with anyone about it. I'll read the thread with more of an open mind and maybe I will understand it better. I never claim to know it all

[*Anya*]

I won't elaborate on what others have so eloquently stated already. I will state however, that most atheists-myself included-do tend to stay in the closet for fear of being attacked by others that are made uncomfortable and unable to accept my own personal value system. I have stated before that I accept you as you are, I do not mock you, belittle or attack you for your own personal choices/beliefs (no jumping on me for using the word belief either-no good word to describe it). What I like about the planet is the wide range of diverging viewpoints. If I feel a pang of discomfort inside myself reading some else's post, I take a step back & try to understand for me and me alone, why it bothered me. I learned a long time ago I could be reactionary if I allowed myself to be. I would much rather be thoughtful & gain wisdom from the viewpoints of others. In case you
Also may think I was just never "shown the way"; I was raised Lutheran, Church every Sunday, confirmed, vacation bible school etc. My parents piously did the same-plus the choir. Meanwhile, they were abusive to me. I prayed plenty as a child though my prayers were never answered. I learned instead to count on myself. Just the same way it would be easier to pretend I am straight & be accepted by straight society; it would be easier for me to pretend I believed there was such a being or spirit such as God. I am going to go strap myself in my body/self-esteem armor now but hope I don't need it to
protect against attacks from planet readers.

[MsDemeanor]

Why am I not surprised that the first thing that happens is folks jump in and bash? High on my list of things that I don't like about religion is the hatred and intolerance that it breeds - from tribes slaughtering each other by the tens of thousands to individuals jumping in to this thread to bash.

I don't get religion, I don't get spirituality, I don't get the whole god thing. As an outside observer, the rituals appear to run the full spectrum, from sweet - like some of the midnight masses my ex used to drag me to - to silly to absurd to deadly - like the oppressions, mutilations, and murders of women throughout the world. I don't understand someone offering to pray for me or light a candle for me or whatever when something bad happens to me. How does this help me? It might make the other person feel better about themselves, but it's a useless gesture and I'd prefer that folks put their time to better use.

'Oh god' does spring from my lips during orgasm, I do pray to the parking goddess when visiting San Francisco, and I seasonally worship at the alters of Foxborough and Fenway. That's all really about great sex, close parking spaces, and winning seasons, not religion or spirituality or whatever y'all want to call it.

[tapu]

I was thinking last night about the distinction between a "soft atheist" and a "hard atheist." Hmm, I really should have looked it up before I came in here today, but I want to think about the possible distinctions that came to me already so here goes:

Say a soft atheist is committed to there being no deity in the sense of a superior being, but allows for the possibility that there might be one. Sort of an atheist without the arrogance. >;-) I think, though, that it may be less simplistic than this. Maybe a soft atheist believes that there IS an organizing principle in the world, just not a cognizant (thinking) being. I always think of this kind of atheist when someone says they are atheist but "believe there is more out there." I'm not sure if they mean an afterlife, or an organizing principle or being, or both.

I think I may be a hard atheist, but again there are fine distinctions. I don't think there is "more out there." I believe that this life is it. And I live with the idea that the likeliest scenario is that the generation of my great-grandchildren may not even know my name. If you think about it, that is generally true. How many here can rattle off the names of their great grandparents. How about "maiden" names?

Now, thinking about my own transience like that can depress me more than a Sartre short story, but it is what I believe. But I grow more comfortable with what I think is the reality because I also believe that it's better to address that reality--better in the sense of a life fully lived--than to assuage that reality with belief systems constructed to deny it.

The hardest of hard atheists believe that everything is random. No organizing principle, even. I am pretty close to that, but to some degree it depends on how "organizing principle" is defined. For me, a scientific (as opposed to mystical) principle is the only possibility. Then, I am left to ponder how much is heredity and how much environment. I'm reading Pinker's "The Blank State" right now for help in how to think about that.