Under 30 Lesbian Identities

[AlphaDrug]

This one might be a little tough, I had a conversation with a friend earlier this week and it sparked an interesting conversation. Our generation seems to not conform to anything anymore, being different for the sake of being different.

A lot of our generation doesn't want to identify as butch, femme, boi, dyke, lipstick, stone, what have you, they want to identify as nothing, and I understand you don't want others to label you, but what if that's clearly what you are or what you lean towards, why not just accept it?

Maybe someone else can explain the reasoning behind it because I know I'm girly, I identify as femme, I'm seriously attracted to butches. That's who I am, what I like, and I'm 100% okay with it. And I know there are butches out there that like butches and femmes that like femmes, and that just peachy, but why not want to be apart of a group that will welcome you with open arms?

[Gráinne]

I'm way over 30 but would like to say something, if that's OK.

It's fine if you know what or who you are, and what or who you like when so young. Many of us didn't. Idenity is evolving. I myself couldn't be more in the middle if I tried. I've struggled with being on this site lately because I am not comfortably in either group. And, I have been attracted to both.

I think it's not wanting to box myself in, to take on a "role". And for many of us, no matter who we date or what we look like outwardly, it's not at all clear what group we "fit" in. It's not so easy to point to a very feminine woman and pronounce her a femme. And then there's me, with short hair and not a dress in sight, and I am more or less more feminine inside. I don't use labels.
It's not really what others think of me, it's not putting myself in a box and calling myself one thing or another.

And sadly, not every group will accept everyone with open arms. And to paraphrase Groucho Marx, some people will not join any group that will have them as a member . It's OK to be a lone wolf.

[AlphaDrug]

Originally Posted by guihong

I'm way over 30 but would like to say something, if that's OK.

It's fine if you know what or who you are, and what or who you like when so young. Many of us didn't. Idenity is evolving. I myself couldn't be more in the middle if I tried. I've struggled with being on this site lately because I am not comfortably in either group. And, I have been attracted to both.

I think it's not wanting to box myself in, to take on a "role". And for many of us, no matter who we date or what we look like outwardly, it's not at all clear what group we "fit" in. It's not so easy to point to a very feminine woman and pronounce her a femme. And then there's me, with short hair and not a dress in sight, and I am more or less more feminine inside. I don't use labels.
It's not really what others think of me, it's not putting myself in a box and calling myself one thing or another.

And sadly, not every group will accept everyone with open arms. And to paraphrase Groucho Marx, some people will not join any group that will have them as a member . It's OK to be a lone wolf.

Well put, thank you so much! <3

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by AlphaDrug

This one might be a little tough, I had a conversation with a friend earlier this week and it sparked an interesting conversation. Our generation seems to not conform to anything anymore, being different for the sake of being different.

A lot of our generation doesn't want to identify as butch, femme, boi, dyke, lipstick, stone, what have you, they want to identify as nothing, and I understand you don't want others to label you, but what if that's clearly what you are or what you lean towards, why not just accept it?

Maybe someone else can explain the reasoning behind it because I know I'm girly, I identify as femme, I'm seriously attracted to butches. That's who I am, what I like, and I'm 100% okay with it. And I know there are butches out there that like butches and femmes that like femmes, and that just peachy, but why not want to be apart of a group that will welcome you with open arms?

Well, I don't actually identify as a lesbian and never really have (I consider myself just queer) so dunno how much I fit in this topic, but anyways, you can let me know if you'd prefer to keep it to lesbians only.

I bolded the part of your post that caught my eye. I know others might disagree with me, but I don't think that a person can be "clearly" butch, or "clearly" femme, or any other identity. Being butch or femme really depends on how you yourself identify. There are some queer folks out there who may "look" butch according to the butch stereotype, but identify as genderqueer, genderfluid, or maybe nothing but straight up (har har) queer. Gender identities and sexualities (which I see as more complex/varied than simply gay/straight/bi, personally) are in many respects abstract concepts, and not only that but the nature of queer culture has often made them fluid/ever-changing. As such, you can't really define what butch is or what femme is, beyond what it means to you. Check out Butch Is A Noun if you haven't already...does a bit of a better job than this post, lol.

Personally, I don't have a problem with others not identifying as anything. In some ways I can sympathise. I think my struggle to define my sexuality (rather than my gender identity, which I've found easier to define) is where I've most sympathised with those who prefer no label at all. As someone who identifies as both male/XX male/transmale as well as stone butch, I've often been asked by those curious if my attraction to femmes means that I consider myself heterosexual. Because of course, if I don't consider myself a lesbian, then I must be either heterosexual or bisexual. I don't consider myself any of the three, but have settled for just queer, or as someone who is attracted to queer/non-heterosexual/non-heteronormative, feminine women. The queer part is very important to me. Like I said, that's where I can sympathise most with those who take on no label at all. Sometimes I think that labeling sexuality is a bit stupid, when you take a look at the sexual practices present throughout the animal kingdom. Why do we need to label sexuality? I can understand doing so for the sake of finding a preferred partner. In that sense, it's of course useful. But because society has been forced for ages to default everyone to heterosexual (despite reality), sexuality has become inherently political...and I think really needs to be political in our day and age.

But what comes afterwards? Will we ever live in an age where sexuality won't matter beyond attracting a certain partner? What is the point of sexuality beyond that? I think some of those people in our generation who don't label themselves have a similar perspective, which drives them to drop labels.

I sometimes feel like people get swallowed up by their identities...that it becomes more than a tool for self-understanding, but starts to dictate how people act, speak etc. The person should precede the identity, not the other way around. And I think that asking people to accept that they're butch/femme/dyke etc. when they don't feel that way/identify that way might lead some toward that kind of "must be butcher/femmer than thou" mentality. Or to act as a stereotypical lesbian/gay man/queer person just to fit in. Some people don't feel the need to be embraced by a smaller niche group like the b/f community. Some just don't feel like they fit that particular community, even if outwardly others think they do. I think that's cool for them, if it works for them.

Which kind of brings us back to the question of what is butch and what is femme. I think it's completely possible to continue to thrive within a strong b/f community without supporting the notion of concrete b/f identities. As long as a person feels they belong to the b/f community, then they should be welcome. It's more about feeling that you belong, and that the community resonates with your identity than what others think you are, imo.

That's my two cents, anyway.

[AlphaDrug]

I think I worded mine completly wrong I appologize.

Over the weekend, I went to a Butch-Femme Social and came to the conclusion, that you are who you are. It's something I've always known and felt, just never put into words or expressed. Its okay to label yourself whatever you want, butch, femme, soft, hard, black, white, purple, etc., but as soon as someone else tries to smack a label on you then its wrong.

I dont know why my generation has such a problem with accepting or labeling themselves, maybe it's the idea that as soon as they label themselves it will open a flood gate to others labeling them too?

[Holly.88]

The only labels that matter to me are the ones I apply to myself. Whatever anyone else labels me as is on them. I'm 23 years old and absolutely embrace the butch boi label as it applies to myself. I know lesbians who would rather be called justice Bieber than butch. But that's just them I guess. I have always regarded and carried myself as a boi. Even when I was a child. I knew I liked girls early on in life. When I was six years old I didn't prayed for God to make me like boys, I prayed for him to make me a boy. Everyone has their own unique view of themselves as well as a way they would ideally be viewed as by others. This is just my own unique view.

[starryeyes]

I'm 29.. almost 30! (eek!) I embrace my label as a Femme!! It's my perfect fit! :-D

Smiles,
Starry

[hottprof]

Originally Posted by AlphaDrug

I think I worded mine completly wrong I appologize.

Over the weekend, I went to a Butch-Femme Social and came to the conclusion, that you are who you are. It's something I've always known and felt, just never put into words or expressed. Its okay to label yourself whatever you want, butch, femme, soft, hard, black, white, purple, etc., but as soon as someone else tries to smack a label on you then its wrong.

I dont know why my generation has such a problem with accepting or labeling themselves, maybe it's the idea that as soon as they label themselves it will open a flood gate to others labeling them too?

Let me try this... to me and only me (personal opinion)... I was kind of taken aback by the former sentence of not accepting myself... not offended just made me think...

I do not have a hard time accepting who I am. For many in the area I am living in there is no such thing as butch, femme (and so forth with the labels). you are either straight or gay. there is no in between... I have tried to have conversations about the topic with others and I get the confused look and the question well "which one are you" (to me and those who know me within this community, it is clear that I embrace the femme side of things).

To an outsider they think butch just means short spiky hair, and lesbian just means two women who... well... yeah... It is difficult to place a true label on myself outside of the community. to them I am just a plain lesbian, done deal... that chick is gay ("though she doesn't look or act gay" true words over heard or directly spoken to me).

I know who I am and who I would like to become and maybe it is a bit passe to say but I do not always see where the labels outside of the community make a difference. it is not like I will walk up to someone and be like... "Hi, I am hp and I am a femme" hello look with three heads. People will only see us with in a community as lesbians or dykes (the stereotypes we are placed in by those outside the community).

I respect where the labels come from, how they came to being and the struggle that our past brothers and sisters in the LGBTQA community have been through. Maybe I am being confusing but with everything out there via facebook, twitter and other social networking tools... maybe somethings need to be kept private, within a select community.

As for others labeling me... I get annoyed with it. I told someone I was a femme and I am looking for a butch/ boi to be partnered with... because they heard "Boy" and not "boi" they were like... so you are bisexual or are you just straight (I shook my head trying to explain eventually I changed the topic)... I have come into my own as an independent woman, and I do not need others questioning my sexuality, I have not gone back in the proverbial closet, however I do keep things a bit more private than I did when I came out at 18.
*sigh*

Not sure I am making much sense... I am not trying to offend, just trying to place my words... I am here to learn and educate.

I hope my 2 cents is worth something...

hp

*peace*

[Red-Dragon]

i can understand were everyone is coming from on that. growing up i only knew that there was lesbians gays bisexuals transgender and straights heck the last two yrs i found out there was butch femm etc and just three months ago i found out there were boi types. me well i dont care on what people think its if they think i'm a guy ok if they say i'm butch or boi cause i wear guy clothes and short hair. ok its a label but not what i identify myself as i identify myself as just me its what i feel comfortable in with clothes or hair styles. to me labels are just labels the person if she feels comfortable in dresses skirts etc or slacks muscle shirts etc its the person not the label. but this is just my opinion on what i think.

[Stud_puppy1991]

I can understand that finding how you choose to identify is tough. Labels get tossed around and most of us don't like being defined by a simple term. Or some do. This is why I know plenty of fellow young people who will view themselves as whatever they wish. Personally, I am 25, and I view myself as butch, but I use male pronouns. It all depends on what you are comfortable with.

[Ender]

I think it's just for the sake of being different, because almost everyone who identifies as something other than butch, femme, boi, dyke, etc is under 25. However, to be fair there was a time I thought I might be demigender, fluid, etc. I honestly think because trans people are in the media more now that younger people are experimenting (which is part of life), with expression and don't want to conform to male or female.

I've also noticed this a lot more with afab people not wanting to conform, and I also think it's partially to do with roles and the fact that women are generally seen as 'lessers' compared to male counterparts, which is why I think feminism is so important right now.