Misogyny and Sexism in the News

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by AtLast

Thanks for posting this. I hope more transpeople point out that he is not a great trans rep at all. And he keeps getting a lot of press as such. It is also difficult to talk about this as a non-trans person because what usually happens is that this is viewed as transphobic.

There are so many other trans men and women that have so much more substance that make far better trans activists.

I think a lot of trans people do speak out against him as a rep, especially trans people who are involved in activism. I know that quite a few of us here have mentioned it a few times. It was one of the reasons for my rather disgruntled replies in the Dancing With the Stars thread, Becoming Chaz thread and pretty much anything involving Chaz. I know some others like Corkey and Dapper I think have mentioned it as well. So hopefully this isn't coming as a surprise to people that some in the trans community aren't ok with what Chaz says/Chaz as the celebrity face of trans people.

Irl, the problem is that the media really doesn't pay much attention to trans activists who aren't the children of celebrities. I guess they have no reason to. Trying to find a media source that will accept entries from people who don't think having Chaz as a trans rep. in the mainstream isn't some wonderful advancement in trans rights is difficult. Not that that means people shouldn't try. I think it is important to, but there's still that barrier of there being little demand to hear about trans rights issues in the mainstream.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

I think a lot of trans people do speak out against him as a rep, especially trans people who are involved in activism. I know that quite a few of us here have mentioned it a few times. It was one of the reasons for my rather disgruntled replies in the Dancing With the Stars thread, Becoming Chaz thread and pretty much anything involving Chaz. I know some others like Corkey and Dapper I think have mentioned it as well. So hopefully this isn't coming as a surprise to people that some in the trans community aren't ok with what Chaz says/Chaz as the celebrity face of trans people.

Irl, the problem is that the media really doesn't pay much attention to trans activists who aren't the children of celebrities. I guess they have no reason to. Trying to find a media source that will accept entries from people who don't think having Chaz as a trans rep. in the mainstream isn't some wonderful advancement in trans rights is difficult. Not that that means people shouldn't try. I think it is important to, but there's still that barrier of there being little demand to hear about trans rights issues in the mainstream.

Oh yes, I did see your and dapper's and Corkey's comments in other threads and was glad to you speak up. There were other posts I recall about the documentary and his treatment of his partner. I also thought a lot about transguys that I know in real-time that thought he was a very bad rep for ever speaking about the challenges of taking T. There have been many tranguys on this site as well the old one that speak frankly about some of the "excuses" around this as well as just plain sexist behavior. No discussion of the work one does on these issues as they transition- or even before making the decision to.

I think you have a really good point about how the mainstream is fixated on celeb transpeople and the fact that they would get a much more realistic idea of not only transgenderism, but gender in being exposed to organizations that represent "just people" that are trans.

I want Chaz to have a good and fulfilling life, but have to honest, even prior to transitioning as a LGBT "activist," I have never viewed him as all that enlightened just as a human being. He has never been an inspirational speaker and I don't see him as all that well read. There are quite a few trans people right here that have much more knowledge and evolvement than he does. And organizations that I feel fortunate to have in close proximity such as Colage (but there are others), could do so much positive work if they could get the kind of financial support that would enable chapters in many more states and cities. Also, there is a great need for educational curriculum development in education around gender identity.

Yes, I think many of our trans members speak out and up and certainly don't just follow the "crowd" concerning spokespeople!! Thank you all!

Have to add something-

As a non-trans person I am not unaffected by the very real need for as much research and development of gender identities and issues in order to understand myself as well. Taking into account what is now available in this field as compared to what was when I was a kid brings me a lot of satisfaction just a butch. We are finally able to see the binary and how restrictive it is for everyone. No way do I, or have I ever fit neatly into it. I see so many new horizons for future generations unlocking with what is now finally being studied and understood about gender. My hope is that kids will be able to grow up without so much of the self-loathing and shame that past generations have. I am really joyful that my 77 year old inter-gendered cousin lived long enough to be able to experience the world much differently- that is a true gift of the universe!

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by AtLast

Oh yes, I did see your and dapper's and Corkey's comments in other threads and was glad to you speak up. There were other posts I recall about the documentary and his treatment of his partner. I also thought a lot about transguys that I know in real-time that thought he was a very bad rep for ever speaking about the challenges of taking T. There have been many tranguys on this site as well the old one that speak frankly about some of the "excuses" around this as well as just plain sexist behavior. No discussion of the work one does on these issues as they transition- or even before making the decision to.

I think you have a really good point about how the mainstream is fixated on celeb transpeople and the fact that they would get a much more realistic idea of not only transgenderism, but gender in being exposed to organizations that represent "just people" that are trans.

I want Chaz to have a good and fulfilling life, but have to honest, even prior to transitioning as a LGBT "activist," I have never viewed him as all that enlightened just as a human being. He has never been an inspirational speaker and I don't see him as all that well read. There are quite a few trans people right here that have much more knowledge and evolvement than he does. And organizations that I feel fortunate to have in close proximity such as Colage (but there are others), could do so much positive work if they could get the kind of financial support that would enable chapters in many more states and cities. Also, there is a great need for educational curriculum development in education around gender identity.

Yes, I think many of our trans members speak out and up and certainly don't just follow the "crowd" concerning spokespeople!! Thank you all!

Have to add something-

As a non-trans person I am not unaffected by the very real need for as much research and development of gender identities and issues in order to understand myself as well. Taking into account what is now available in this field as compared to what was when I was a kid brings me a lot of satisfaction just a butch. We are finally able to see the binary and how restrictive it is for everyone. No way do I, or have I ever fit neatly into it. I see so many new horizons for future generations unlocking with what is now finally being studied and understood about gender. My hope is that kids will be able to grow up without so much of the self-loathing and shame that past generations have. I am really joyful that my 77 year old inter-gendered cousin lived long enough to be able to experience the world much differently- that is a true gift of the universe!

You're completely right, AtLast. Trans rights, development of new understandings of gender identity (and here I would add sex identities and sexual identities as well) benefits everyone in the long run. Just as women's rights, lgb/queer rights and ethnic/racial equality benefit everyone in the long run. I know I can get bogged down on how shitty things still are, that I don't always talk about the positives. But there are certainly many positives to talk about, and rights issues has certainly come along way and especially within the lgbtqi community.

I guess part of my worry is that our progress only echoes slightly in mainstream society compared with how loudly it resonates within the lgbtq community. So many people even defending Chaz against what Stephen has said, don't even seem to "get" trans rights or what being trans is. I wish that Pride and mainstream media representations of our diverse communities would display more of our diversity. Would display how we view gender and sex and sexuality. I guess it's just frustrating and it's partially my own fault in being frustrated. I just wish there was a way of entering even the research that has been conducted in the sciences into the mainstream perspective. So that people like Chaz would stop talking about being trans as though it were a "birth defect," or people like Chaz will stop talking about how he has little tolerance for women and what they have to say. So that that won't be what the mainstream preaches as gospel, cause "hey, he's a transguy/lgbtq activist and his bigoted views support our bigoted views, so let's use his ignorance to preach our own discriminatory practices!" It feels like the age old practice of using one marginalized person's limited understanding of their community's marginalization against the community as a whole. Like if one black/African American person spoke out against the civil rights movement, then that would have somehow "justified" the racist practices of the day for white Americans who opposed it. Or when one queer person speaks out against the queer rights movement, then that somehow "justifies" homophobic practices in society. Like, "oh hey one of them agrees with us, so therefore we must be right! Forget the majority who don't!"

I guess on the one hand I want to give Chaz a break because he's a transguy. On the other hand, he's an extremely privileged transguy who's words have really negative reprecussions for the trans community that doesn't have his social privilege. Would I be giving him a break if he were a cissexed male? No, I wouldn't. So while on the one hand I feel badly for him because he doesn't seem to "get it," but is also a transguy who has to deal with transphobia, on the other hand being trans doesn't exempt him from being transphobic or misogynist. And it's just as serious coming from his as from a cissexed person.

And I'm aware that I'm probably preaching to the choir here...but well...I guess I'm a bit of a natural ranter or something, lol.

[Corkey]

I just don't deal well with people who want to push any agenda they might have on the rest of the world. We're all different and have different ways of seeing things. Should be simple, obviously it's hard for some. But I'm still going to be me, take me or leave me I am who I am. One thing I will not be is someone who gives others a hard time on who they are. Humans are such a diverse group, and some of them have huge egos that need feeding. Not interested in being food.

[Nat]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/9...ch-for-in-2012

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by Nat

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/9...ch-for-in-2012

Certainly the commentary for each of the photos has a sexist, sexual nature to it, however many of those photos are deliberately sexual in nature. They were intentional.

The question in my mind has to do with what actually makes them inherently sexist? Is it wrong for a beautiful (or not beautiful) woman to intentionally have that type of photo made and published?

Maybe some of them have an exhibitionist streak in them.......and there is nothing wrong with that. Every one of us has looked at sexy photos of women (and men) and liked the photos and imagined all kinds of things while doing so. Does looking at pictures of almost to totally naked women, while thinking about all kinds of things, make me a sexist?

Certainly the radical feminists think so and they also are most certainly sex negative.

[Soon]

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by Toughy

Every one of us has looked at sexy photos of women (and men) and liked the photos and imagined all kinds of things while doing so. Does looking at pictures of almost to totally naked women, while thinking about all kinds of things, make me a sexist?

Certainly the radical feminists think so and they also are most certainly sex negative.

I just want to point out the broad generalization in this statement.

Not all radical feminists think so and not all are "sex negative".

I, personally, identify as a "radical feminist" and certainly am not sex negative.

Just sayin'.

It always bothers me when I read broad, sweeping statements that lump everyone, no matter how we identify, in the same bucket.

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by *Anya*

I just want to point out the broad generalization in this statement.

Not all radical feminists think so and not all are "sex negative".

I, personally, identify as a "radical feminist" and certainly am not sex negative.

Just sayin'.

It always bothers me when I read broad, sweeping statements that lump everyone, no matter how we identify, in the same bucket.

Originally Posted by Toughy

Certainly the commentary for each of the photos has a sexist, sexual nature to it, however many of those photos are deliberately sexual in nature. They were intentional.

The question in my mind has to do with what actually makes them inherently sexist? Is it wrong for a beautiful (or not beautiful) woman to intentionally have that type of photo made and published?

Maybe some of them have an exhibitionist streak in them.......and there is nothing wrong with that. Every one of us has looked at sexy photos of women (and men) and liked the photos and imagined all kinds of things while doing so. Does looking at pictures of almost to totally naked women, while thinking about all kinds of things, make me a sexist?

Certainly the radical feminists think so and they also are most certainly sex negative.

I quoted the whole post for clarity. I should have said 'certainly many/most radical feminists think so'. What I think of when I say 'radical feminist' is the anti-porn, no penetrative sex, no adornment (make-up etc), no males over 5 yrs old, separatist lesbian kind of femininst.

So what do you think about the questions I asked? Is porn inherently sexist?