older femmes

[Hollylane]

Originally Posted by Linus

Heh.. could be dangerous. A relationship troubleshooting thread in the Relationship forum makes sense. BUT would need heavy caveats as it could lead to some serious drama if questions asked aren't done with appropriate consideration.

Perhaps in the redzone

[Linus]

Originally Posted by Hollylane

Perhaps in the redzone

Uh... no. The Red Zone does not automatically equal "Let me rip on X because they did a, b, c and such to me and I don't like them!". And anyone who suggests it again will have the Poodle with the Evil Eye following them around. I'll script it in if need be.

[Ginger]

If you live in the United States and I guess just about anywhere else on the planet, you're going to be subjected to cultural ageism. After all, it sells products!

I think it's true though, that many women's communities are less ageist than the general culture. In the straight culture—not that there's just one straight culture—but in general, a woman in her forties or god forbid, older, really doesn't have a statistical prayer in finding a partner.

On the other hand, lesbians, butch-femme people, others in the women's communities, can find lots of people their age looking to date.

For the sake of full disclosure, I will say that about five or six years ago I noticed in a butch-femme dating site I won't name (because it really is a good site and I wouldn't want to discourage people from using it), that most of the butches my age were looking for women at least ten years younger than they were! I felt very discouraged.

But now I don't think that's the norm; it could have just been a fluke or some little cultural eddy I got pulled into; some trend of defiantly emulating the worst of straight culture, who knows. But I do know it doesn't seem a trend, at least in the little peeks at butch-femme culture I get these days.

And besides, women's communities tend to be less sexist, and the less sexist a group is, the less likely they are to devalue a woman because she is aging. Hence, I like it here!

[Soft*Silver]

Dont knock AARP. I was given a membership by my sister (OLDER SISTER ...lol> We tease each other who is oldest) and lo and behold, it saved me $216 on my prescription glasses and frames...to the point that the eye vision place let me use the discount to "up" my frame from the medicaid ones to Ed Hardy ones! I was floored! So I get new hot frames because I am 55! (and have an older sister who loves me..lol)

[Soft*Silver]

as for ageism I actually did find ageism in an ex while we were together. It was one thing for him to get old and soft and wrinkled but he had a real problem with his femmes doing so.

Other than him tho, I havent run into it again. In fact, I have only been courted by fine butches of age as I grew older. I have made it clear how attracted I am to silver hair butches. Always have been, even in my 30s. Its only gotten stronger as I got older. I cant imagine young hands touching me. The thought doesnt appeal to me at all.

I am much more myself as I age. I have let go of several self induced expecations of Self that truly werent me at all. I am so fluid in my Being, and am so happy with Me, that I no longer concern myself with the worries I had as a young one.

I think alot of that does have to do with my Self and the energy I offer. I am not meek. I am very self confident. And I am compassionate and caring. And I love well. And I dont tolerate silliness (in a bad sense, not a haha sense) in character, so people know that when they are chosen to be part of my life, it is a sign of respect as well as interest. When you offer respect, it is a big draw. When you deserve respect, that too is a big draw...

[Ginger]

Originally Posted by Miss_Tia

I am much more myself as I age. I have let go of several self induced expecations of Self that truly werent me at all. I am so fluid in my Being, and am so happy with Me, that I no longer concern myself with the worries I had as a young one.

You really sum it up well. There are definitely advantages to the wisdom of age.

[kittygrrl]

Job market but otherwise, I haven't noticed or maybe I don't want to

[imperfect_cupcake]

I'm having a bit of an issue with my age and level of experience in life/sex today. Two of my exes are now seeing girls 10 years my jr. Both of them are dead sweet, lovely, intelligent girls. They also have smooth, lovely skin, pert tits and round firm asses. Oh an long dark curly hair.

My wife ran off with someone with no experience, straight girl that turned out to be not straight - so that triggers a bunch of political stuff for me... and the other girl is just a doe eye'd sweet girl with some, but not a heap, of experience.

I'm feeling a bit old a battle scarred today. I know I have a ton of experience and that's all grand, but it tends to paint me as a cougar type older femme and to be perfectly honest, I'm just not.

I'm just as sweet, soft and vulnerable as I was in my 30's. I'm tired of 20-30 something dykes coming up to me and telling me "oooo I bet you'll eat me for breckfast!"

No I fucking won't, actually. Piss off!

I don't want to be pegged into the Mature experienced woman who will show you things and unlock your secret desires then you can fuck off with those new skills and go pull sweet innocent things.

I've got a side to me that seems to be more invisible with age. If I'm maternal, dominant, firm handed, experienced and a bit tough... then as I age that's all jim dandy. But my sweet, vulnerable girl side seems to become more and more invisible and unacknowledged.

It was fine to be that way till I hit 40. Then I've been thrust into a different realm of how my femininity should be played out in terms of desirability.

And I've never been hacked off about aging before - I've always been relieved by it. But today when I was doing massage work on my ex's new gf (we were over before she met her) and I was running my hands over her 10 year younger body and listening to my ex tell me "she's lovely and sweet, isn't she?? what do you think? you like her??" in the kitchen... yeah, I do like her. She really is a lovely person.

But I feel, if I'm totally honest, banged up and worse for wear. And like a part of me is utterly invisible.

So how does femininity age? I feel shoved into a different "role" if you like as an older and, frankly over-expereinced femme. Having given sex seminars, worked in sex shops, done phone sex, webcam girl and pro-domme (that's a job, not exactly who I am), written about dyke sex, shown quite a few butches/genderqueer/androgdykes their first connection with their female dick... I don't get to be viewed as the sweet girl that I am. I don't know how to make people still see her.

So I'm trying things to make her more visible. Like stopping swearing, not maybe dressing quite so femme-fatal. Reminding people my favorite flower is daisies.

How do other femmes deal with this switch over and being thrust into Mature femininity? I feel a massive loss. And to be honest it really hurts.

I think about Maude from the Movie Harold & Maude (on of my most favourite romance films) and Maude is incredibly sweet, charming, funny, delightful and full of a mature and experienced innocence that I wish I could convey. I adore Maude. You can still clearly see the spritely girl she is.

But yes, do others feel this pressure in femininity, a shift as they age?

Maybe I'm just feeling it more having had two ex's select girls 10 years my jr with little experience.

[Soft*Silver]

what I love about being a Classic Femme, is that people smile and respect me just because of my age...I head toward a door and people open it and smile at me as they hold it open for me to go first. I glow when they do this. At the check out register, the cashier calls me Maam and the boy shows up automatically to take my groceries to the car (and is surprised when he sees I drive a huge 350 dually, lol). While admiring flowers in Lowe's, young couples come over and ask my advise. Young nieces call me when their babies are sick to find out what worked when my almost 30 year old daughter was a sick baby. The phone person who is calling me to check on an order, who cant even see me, but knows me from the store, asks me how I am doing in the heat and if I need anything.

I dont remember this kind of kindness as a younger femme. I have had butches open doors for me but honestly, everyone does it for me now. And I know I dont look THAT old. But old enough. I smile alot..and i always look for people's eyes...I catch them alone in the world, and somehow make contact with them and they respond in kindness. I am moving slower nowadays and I think people see this too. I hurt alot, and never without it, so this probably is seen on me too. But I also smile..always. Always. And not out of pretense. Its because I am smiling inside. I am so out of my former worlds of despair and loneliness and fear and anger. I think sometimes we walk around with those four emotions and it keeps the world out. When they are gone, it lets the world in. And i think that really has alot to do with age. the older I get, the less time i want to give to those four emotions...

[*Anya*]

I always find it interesting to go back and read posts that I had written a year ago- or even as recently as the one I had posted in this thread on February 1st.

I kind of came "out of the closet" about the 10-year age difference between my sweetheart and I on that date. (I'm the older one!!).

It was very difficult for me then and not difficult at all now to talk about.

I already had gone through what HoneyBarbara describes in her post, when I was in my late 40's, early 50's. I would look around at all the younger femmes and looking at them did make me feel at times, as though I were "less than".

Sometimes, it still gives me pause to look at the 20 and 30-year-olds but it is more nostalgia now than grief.

My life is infinitely happier now than it was 10-years ago. I can't undo the passage of time. Don't ask me if I would-if I could.

I do not know the answer to that. Perhaps only to have met my love sooner but who knows if the stars would have aligned for us then? Things do happen when they are supposed to, even if not on our own personal timetable.

I don't know if aging is more difficult for femmes, than for butches. I can only speak for myself.

I do remember when I was not invisible, when heads turned to look at me and when my body was so tight that you could bounce a dime off of it. Frankly, on some level, that attention made me uncomfortable.

I like that now it is just my butch's face that lights up when I approach. That attention feels warm, comfortable and so welcomed by me.

As long as I am beautiful in her eyes, can walk, talk, think and have hot sex; I am happy and content and feel so very lucky.

[imperfect_cupcake]

I don't think it makes me feel less than... though in some ways it does. It makes me feel that an important part of my femininity - my girlishness, rather than womanliness - is utterly erased or completely invisible because of my "level of experience" and I feel my femininity is being forced in a direction that doesn't allow for that type of

daisy loving
butterfly chasing
barefoot
giggling
daisy chain making
glitter loving
vulnerable
sweet

girl that does reside in me along with the skilled, knowledgeable, nurturing, kind woman. I feel like my femininity, because of my age and my amount of experience can only be accepted as desirable if - and only if - I'm maternal, teaching, dominant, femme-fatal, classy older woman... I'm no katherine hepburn. I'm really not. I don't have that kind of grace. That's not the kind of femininity I bring to the table.

So what happens to the girly girl in me when she is no longer wanted as a part of my femininity? When the younger dykes do aproach me, it's always with the attitude of me teaching them something, or I'm going to blow their mind or wow an older woman guess she'll show me a thing or two, put me in my place mama, or other some such nonsense.

and those my own age, who once adored my girlishness are now with much younger femmes who have an innocence that I can't provide to them. But I'm still a girl inside. But that part of me seems to have become completely invisible.

That's why I'm asking: what happens to femininity as we age? what *kind* of femininity are we "allowed" to own as desirable as older women? Cause I don't see being a sweet girl as something a femme is viewed as if she's had a certain amount of experience and age.

Am I the only one who feels parts of them is invisible due to the expectancy of "experience", "wisdom," "maturity" and "skill"?

[*Anya*]

I will always be feminine, no matter how old I am because it is just a part of me, just as breathing in and out is a part of me.

To me, it has nothing to do with being girlish or womanly. It is an intrinsic part of who I am and aging has done nothing to diminish the feminine aspect of myself.

daisy loving: I love daisies but I love roses more

butterfly chasing: I did not chase butterflys as a young girl and do not imagine I will start now

barefoot: I walk barefoot now as much as I ever did

giggling: I still giggle when something tickles my fancy or my funnybone

daisy chain making: never did, probably never will

glitter loving: I never did like glitter even as a young girl-too messy for me

vulnerable: I am a very vulnerable person, always have been and imagine I will continue to be so until I am an old woman

sweet: I think sweetness has nothing to do with age

I think each of us may look at aging and girlishness or womanliness differently.

I never really gave much thought to being girlish but always have given being feminine a great deal of thought.

Maybe also because I am not dating, my "experience", "wisdom," "maturity" and "skill", does not factor into any equation for me or for my partner.

We accept each other where each of us are at this point in out lives, just as I work on accepting myself and where I am at today.

I try hard to not focus on my yesterdays or my tomorrows but to be here now.