Misogyny and Sexism in the News

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

It's frustrating. Society constantly goes through these phases of becoming more progressive before sending people back 50 years.

I'm not sure it really is a deliberate, calculated, informed choice. How informed is it? Yes, everyone has a right to a choice, but at the same time we can't ignore the social realities that inform that choice. In many ways this parallels the niqab debate in many Western nations...claiming that women have the "choice" and that they shouldn't be permitted to wear the niqab in places like schools and work places. So yes, the woman might have a "choice," but the choice is to defy your upbringing, your family, your culture as you were raised to understand it or be shunned from the rest of society (education, jobs etc.) While perhaps less extreme, the "choice" can be similar for many women in various societies. You are brought up to see yourself a certain way...and if you do something radical according to your culture...no longer subscribe to gendered norms or sexual norms (not talking necessarily about queer/trans community here) you still might have much to lose, if not what little privilege conformity gives you in society.

And what if you don't even question it?

At what point is that "choice" not so much a choice as a reaction to social programming...as is everything. We are all socially programmed and no choice we make is ever divorced from that. It just depends on whether we challenge it or conform to it.

I believe we all should have a right to make a choice except in the instances where it brings direct harm to other human beings. Yet in many respects these choices, as extensions of how these behaviours will affect how these women interact with other generations of women (namely younger women and girls), do do damage.

And if these choices are extensions of upbringing and social expectations, how do societies provide room for them while also making sure that future generations of children are not brought into such a world of gendered social expectations or into a world where it is deemed "the way things are" to sexually objectify half the population based on the sex they were assigned at birth. Where they might have more options to make choices that aren't framed around the ingrained need to focus those choices on the desires of cissexed hetero men.

All I know is the world is seriously too fucked up

I agree with you. We seem to share a common paradigm. Your words are my words. Your thoughts are my thoughts. Except when they arent. Sometimes, I see things differently when my values, morals, paradigm and life conflict in ways I dont expect. I have to adjust, adapt, make choices, change perspectives etc.

There is a distinct difference, it seems, between theory and real life. Lots of things work in theory. They dont always work in real life or maybe they dont work in quite the way we expect or maybe they work in various ways for ways people at various times. Is confusing stuff.

The "choice" I was referring to involves individual perspective which may be unknown or just plain foreign to me. Take any act as an example. I might see it as sexist and misogynistic. Someone else might see the partiarchy lurking in it but feel the act was an adaptation to conditions. Someone else might not even acknowledge the patriarchy paradigm, thus they see an act as what is expected or their role in life period and they are very comfortable with that. Someone else might see the patriarchy but their behavior is more geared to exploiting the exploitation for their own benefit. Someone else might see something totally different. Thats diversity.

Wish it was simplier but it isnt. The mere fact something is observed will change its properties. That is scientific fact. Funny thing this life can be.

You also said - "Where they might have more options to make choices that aren't framed around the ingrained need to focus those choices on the desires of cissexed hetero men."

We are of the same thinking and paradigm yet I dont limit my perspective to "the desires of cissexed hetero men". To me, it is much broader. It is the appearance or even just the suggestion of masculinity. Social programming runs deep, and there are perks and privileges all along the spectum of real and perceived masculinity.

Being a woman, this never occured to me until I began playing around with how best to word my id so I didnt have to keep explaining it. When I used butch or lesbutchian, I was treated differently. People related to me differently. They flirted with me differently. They "honored" my butchness in ways that were unfamiliar and uncomfortable to me because I am not male id. If I addressed something female i.e. pms, what I said could be miscontrued as a sexist comment rather than a shared female experience - because I wasnt seen as a female. It was a very weird yet enlightening kind of experience.

Of course, now, I just use lesbian and woman. Again, I am treated differently albeit in more familiar and comfortable ways. I am also mistaken for a femme more and this is ok cuz at least I am being seen as a female. And, I dont get as many perks and privileges as I used to. On the other hand, I dont get the feeling people are checking out my crotch anymore either.

Social programming works both ways tho. A femme can say something to me and I dont think twice about it. A male id person can say the exact same thing using the exact words and I want to smack him/hym upside the head. Tricky stuff this programming.

The older I get, the more I appreciate how life teaches us some interesting lessons. It is a journey of creativity not a destination. We are works in progress not a final product. In a lot of ways, it seems to me like we are making it up as we go. Sometimes we do good. Sometimes we dont. Sometimes we do good by accident not intent. Sometimes good intent turns into a unforseen fiasco.

I used to have a lot of answers. Now I have a lot more questions cuz nothing and no one is ever as simple as I would like it or them to be. The older I get, the clearer this becomes.