A Question for Understanding

Ginger · 09-05-2012, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrahamsGirl

I posted this question in another thread, but I guess it wasn't to correct one. I am asking so I can understand, so please do not feel as if I am judging or anything else. Thanks for helping me to understand.

How does a transguy pass as a transguy and not a straight guy? (Sorry if that is worded wrong.) I really want to get a visual/understanding on this. Thanks. GG

You seem really intent to get your question answered and I wish I could help you.

Not that I could answer the question, even if I understood it—but I don't understand it.

To "pass" means to be mistaken for whatever is the "norm" in a given group, right? So are you asking, oh geez I better not even try.

ruffryder · 09-05-2012, 05:32 PM

Trans guys don't always pass as straight guys or want to be labeled as straight. This can be due to not taking testosterone or having the surgeries, which is called pre-op. Even if they do go through all of the steps and surgeries to trans, called post-op, sometimes they just don't want to be "straight". I guess if they do take testosterone and have the surgeries then people could assume they are straight. ?

Tony · 09-05-2012, 05:36 PM

Subscribed. Don't have adequate time right now, but definately will be back to offer my input. ;-)

Linus · 09-05-2012, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruffryder

Trans guys don't always pass as straight guys or want to be labeled as straight. This can be due to not taking testosterone or having the surgeries, which is called pre-op. Even if they do go through all of the steps and surgeries to trans, called post-op, sometimes they just don't want to be "straight". I guess if they do take testosterone and have the surgeries then people could assume they are straight. ?

To me, I wouldn't associate straightness to whether they have medically transitioned or not. I'd associate it more with their sexual orientation within society. To me this would be for someone who has no desire to be associated with the LGBTQ community and likely never participated within a queer/lesbian/BF/<insert orientation here> relationship.

There are a lot more straight "trans" men out there than I think some of us realize. Many would refuse to come to a site like this because they have no desire to date women who may have had or are interested in women or transmasculine individuals. The ones I've met (mostly in NYC) said that they don't even identify with the trans part and don't recognize their past.

Corkey · 09-05-2012, 06:15 PM

The whole question presupposes that Transmen (a gender identity) are straight men, when FTM's may have different sexual identities, such as Gay, or Butch or yes even Genderqueer. We are not necessarily our sexual identity when being a gender identity.

Gender is who I am
My sexual identity is who I have sex with.

Make since?

Martina · 09-05-2012, 06:44 PM

Are you asking how people know he's trans as opposed to cisgendered male?

As people have pointed out, the straight part seems kinda irrelevant. He could be gay. Tons of transmen are gay men. Seems like more than not up here in Norcal.

ruffryder · 09-05-2012, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruffryder

Even if they do go through all of the steps and surgeries to trans, called post-op, sometimes they just don't want to be "straight".

Right, a trans doesn't have to medically transition to be straight. I like how you Linus, and Corkey say that straight has more to do with sexual orientation and gender identity. Although someone may identify as straight, they may or may not be associated with LGBT based again on their orientation or identity and who they choose to have a relationship with, sexual or otherwise. There are straight people, trans or other, who may choose to be with femmes, trans, other straight people, bisexuals, gays, butches, so on and so forth. Not to consfuse the OP, she is asking why don't trans pass as straight also. I was just suggesting that with surgery they could pass and be viewed as straight by a bystander who does not know them. Maybe the OP can come back and clarify or discuss with us further regarding this question.

Nadeest · 09-05-2012, 09:05 PM

I think that what the OP is asking is how does a transguy manage to 'pass', and not be perceived as trans. If I am wrong, please correct me.

Corkey · 09-05-2012, 09:12 PM

When ya' figure that out let me know.

aishah · 09-05-2012, 09:25 PM

others have covered the difference between sexual orientation and gender identity.

as far as passing, i may be wrong, but here is my understanding...

it is based on other people's perceptions. most people automatically sort others into "male" and "female," almost always with the assumption that the person they are looking at is cisgender. if they cannot clearly gauge they might assume someone is trans* or otherwise gender non-conforming. passing as male means adopting/developing enough physical markers to be read as male by others some or all of the time. if you are trans* and pass most or all of the time, since most people assume others are cisgender, i imagine you'd have to out yourself in order to not be perceived as cis, if that makes any sense.

re: passing as straight...regarding sexual orientation, it's pretty much the same as with any other person of any sexual orientation passing as straight or not passing as straight.

09-05-2012, 05:32 PM	#2
ruffryder Senior Member How Do You Identify?: FTM Preferred Pronoun?: guy ones Relationship Status: ... Join Date: May 2011 Location: chillin' in FL Posts: 3,690 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 21,951 Thanked 9,680 Times in 2,875 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	see if i can help Trans guys don't always pass as straight guys or want to be labeled as straight. This can be due to not taking testosterone or having the surgeries, which is called pre-op. Even if they do go through all of the steps and surgeries to trans, called post-op, sometimes they just don't want to be "straight". I guess if they do take testosterone and have the surgeries then people could assume they are straight. ?

09-05-2012, 05:36 PM	#3
Tony Member How Do You Identify?: All Man (FTM if I must have a label) Preferred Pronoun?: Male ones Relationship Status: She's my Southern Comfort Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Midwest Posts: 412 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 569 Thanked 1,241 Times in 326 Posts Rep Power: 18460392	Subscribed. Don't have adequate time right now, but definately will be back to offer my input. ;-) __________________ Words are what we hear; they allow the heart to believe what it wants to believe. But actions, actions show us the real truth of what we need to believe.

09-05-2012, 06:15 PM	#5
Corkey Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Human Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Very Married Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Where I want to be Posts: 8,155 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 47,491 Thanked 29,268 Times in 6,637 Posts Rep Power: 21474860	The whole question presupposes that Transmen (a gender identity) are straight men, when FTM's may have different sexual identities, such as Gay, or Butch or yes even Genderqueer. We are not necessarily our sexual identity when being a gender identity. Gender is who I am My sexual identity is who I have sex with. Make since? __________________ "Many proposals have been made to us to adopt your laws, your religion, your manners and your customs. We would be better pleased with beholding the good effects of these doctrines in your own practices, than with hearing you talk about them". ~Old Tassel, Chief of the Tsalagi (Cherokee)

09-05-2012, 09:12 PM	#9
Corkey Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Human Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Very Married Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Where I want to be Posts: 8,155 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 47,491 Thanked 29,268 Times in 6,637 Posts Rep Power: 21474860	When ya' figure that out let me know. __________________ "Many proposals have been made to us to adopt your laws, your religion, your manners and your customs. We would be better pleased with beholding the good effects of these doctrines in your own practices, than with hearing you talk about them". ~Old Tassel, Chief of the Tsalagi (Cherokee)

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09-05-2012, 06:44 PM	#6
Martina Senior Member How Do You Identify?: * Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: * Posts: 4,999 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 13,409 Thanked 18,276 Times in 4,164 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	Are you asking how people know he's trans as opposed to cisgendered male? As people have pointed out, the straight part seems kinda irrelevant. He could be gay. Tons of transmen are gay men. Seems like more than not up here in Norcal.

09-05-2012, 09:05 PM	#8
Nadeest Member How Do You Identify?: as myself Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: Single Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Leesburg, FL Posts: 595 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,876 Thanked 2,118 Times in 501 Posts Rep Power: 17077999	I think that what the OP is asking is how does a transguy manage to 'pass', and not be perceived as trans. If I am wrong, please correct me.

09-05-2012, 09:25 PM	#10
aishah Member How Do You Identify?: queer stone femme shark baby girl Preferred Pronoun?: she, her, little one Relationship Status: dating myself. Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: dallas, tx Posts: 1,495 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 13,823 Thanked 6,439 Times in 1,288 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	others have covered the difference between sexual orientation and gender identity. as far as passing, i may be wrong, but here is my understanding... it is based on other people's perceptions. most people automatically sort others into "male" and "female," almost always with the assumption that the person they are looking at is cisgender. if they cannot clearly gauge they might assume someone is trans* or otherwise gender non-conforming. passing as male means adopting/developing enough physical markers to be read as male by others some or all of the time. if you are trans* and pass most or all of the time, since most people assume others are cisgender, i imagine you'd have to out yourself in order to not be perceived as cis, if that makes any sense. re: passing as straight...regarding sexual orientation, it's pretty much the same as with any other person of any sexual orientation passing as straight or not passing as straight.