June Cleaver : Femme Friend or Femme Foe

[JustJo]

Piggybacking off of Medusa's post....

I think some of the that is the same for me. I'm not into submission, but I am into service. I like to do things for the people in my life....partly because it makes them feel good, and partly because it makes me feel good.

And, yes, I confess there's a little bit of the superwoman thing too. I have prided myself on always supporting myself, working, taking care of my son, maintaining a home, putting myself through school, getting an advanced degree....and still being able to bake from scratch or make my own jam.

My pushy broad peeks in too....and I'm just as liable to be pushing the people in my life to do better, which I'm sure can be rather annoying.

[Gráinne]

I was thinking of two other TV women from around the same time who may seem almost the opposite-Lily Munster and Morticia Addams. Ignoring the fact that their houses were supposed to look like that, each prided themselves on the appearance of their homes (well, Morticia had servants). Both were devoted mothers, and Lily was often a font of wisdom for her niece, Marilyn (who was far closer to the "ideal" 60's woman).

It's interesting, maybe only to me, that Lily was one of the few TV wives who was portrayed as being more decisive and perhaps smarter than her husband. She swung into effective action to try to get the family out of a jam of Herman's making. Both of them, but especially Morticia, brought sex appeal back. She wasn't afraid to show "heat" with Gomez.

Maybe the only way TV mothers and wives could be that sexy and independent was to be almost freakish and foreign, especially to the "normal" people around them.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by guihong

I was thinking of two other TV women from around the same time who may seem almost the opposite-Lily Munster and Morticia Addams. Ignoring the fact that their houses were supposed to look like that, each prided themselves on the appearance of their homes (well, Morticia had servants). Both were devoted mothers, and Lily was often a font of wisdom for her niece, Marilyn (who was far closer to the "ideal" 60's woman).

It's interesting, maybe only to me, that Lily was one of the few TV wives who was portrayed as being more decisive and perhaps smarter than her husband. She swung into effective action to try to get the family out of a jam of Herman's making. Both of them, but especially Morticia, brought sex appeal back. She wasn't afraid to show "heat" with Gomez.

Maybe the only way TV mothers and wives could be that sexy and independent was to be almost freakish and foreign, especially to the "normal" people around them.

Yet none of the women portraying a more powerful role in the relationship is upheld as a model or example of what Femme should be, as a matter of fact it's dismissed, nose wrinkled at and pushed aside for a more softer version of Femme.

Women who are empowered are spoken to different, treated different, objectified differently, and put into a less than hole than the softer version.


It's engrained sexism, that we as Femmes are engrained with. I could be wrong though, I don't think so though.

[girl_dee]

Good Gods i love this thread.

i've only read the first few posts and want to thank everyone for posting.

i just realized that when i was a kid, watching that show, was such a fantasy for me, and an escape.

i don't want to sound like i am complaining about my childhood but my family was the complete opposite of all of those shows, the Brady Bunch, Leave it to Beaver, Ozzie and Harriet, Family Affair, whatever was on i watched it if there was a family involved. i loved and hated all of the characters.

My parents were alcoholics and all that came with it. My parents were angry and the violence in our home was a daily thing. In these shows the parents nurtured, were respectful and didn't scream at each other or beat the kids to the point where they couldn't go to school. Ward didn't come home drunk from the bar and verbally and physically abuse the entire family. Ohhh what an episode that would have made! The kids on TV had friends over, and nice lunches made for them, family dinners. We were lucky if there was a potato for all of us at the table at dinner. Just once i wished my mom would talk to me like June did, soft and caring, not angry and spiteful. Dinner time at my house was so stressful i couldn't eat and was a very thin, sickly kid. Our hood was nothing like where the Cleaver's lived. i armed myself at a young age to get to school, and while at school.

For me that was the attraction as a kid, a way to escape. At the time i was not thinking of oppression, suppression, privilege, classism, sexism etc. but then again i was just a little kid. My world consisted of walking on eggshells and staying out of the way.

i haven't decided what the attraction for me as an adult is, but i sure love sporting an apron, being a homemaker and not an angry pissed off drinking and two fisted smoking one.

Maybe i shared too much, if so i am sorry!

[Martina]

I loved your post, Dee. Didn't quote it all cause that annoys me, but wanted to cheerlead outside of the thanking feature.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by Martina

I loved your post, Dee. Didn't quote it all cause that annoys me, but wanted to cheerlead outside of the thanking feature.

Thanks, and i've enjoyed yours. Very thought provoking!

[easygoingfemme]

Originally Posted by JustJo

Piggybacking off of Medusa's post....

I think some of the that is the same for me. I'm not into submission, but I am into service. I like to do things for the people in my life....partly because it makes them feel good, and partly because it makes me feel good.

And, yes, I confess there's a little bit of the superwoman thing too. I have prided myself on always supporting myself, working, taking care of my son, maintaining a home, putting myself through school, getting an advanced degree....and still being able to bake from scratch or make my own jam.

My pushy broad peeks in too....and I'm just as liable to be pushing the people in my life to do better, which I'm sure can be rather annoying.

See and that's the cool thing- doing it because you want to and it's who you are. Then it's not a submission. I love providing too, I love giving and smoothing the corners, and knowing just how to take care of someone. But if the dynamic shifted to where I was supposed to do that because of the name behind my role in the relationship, and that it wasn't an option for me if I wasn't feeling it one day...that's when the scale tips.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by JustJo

Piggybacking off of Medusa's post....

I think some of the that is the same for me. I'm not into submission, but I am into service. I like to do things for the people in my life....partly because it makes them feel good, and partly because it makes me feel good.

And, yes, I confess there's a little bit of the superwoman thing too. I have prided myself on always supporting myself, working, taking care of my son, maintaining a home, putting myself through school, getting an advanced degree....and still being able to bake from scratch or make my own jam.

My pushy broad peeks in too....and I'm just as liable to be pushing the people in my life to do better, which I'm sure can be rather annoying.

Medusa and I talked about stuff like this, how it's not submission (unless it is) when I cook and do house stuff I do them because I like to and want to and because they need to be done. They aren't gender specific in my head. YET when I do bring the family their plate, served, I am coming from my very clear cultural space. You soy la Madre the hand that feeds. I'm specific how and who is served I control it. I can do this and connect with my property and extend my Dominant energy without interrupting the flow of what's going on and not making the family uncomfortable. My gestures are particular and then yes, I am the nurturing, sweet perfection of all things Feminine with the small hint of POWER.


That's why the "June" thing doesn't connect because I can never, ever be her no matter how I try race and culturally we are worlds apart.