Legalization of drugs, pros and cons!

[Jess]

Originally Posted by UofMfan

Thank you for engaging.

Here is the way I see this, and this doesn't mean it is the ONLY way or the RIGHT way to see it, it simply means this is the way I see it. Instead of saying, "Why make such detrimental outcomes that much easier?" and I quote you, I say, why not make such a detrimental outcome that much safer?

I think that we agree that addiction sees no deterrents, or at least that is what I see by your post. So, if there are no deterrents, why not make it safer? Why not supply more help where it counts, as in counseling?

I am not an expert, this is jut my opinion.

As for the other issues I agree, we need real health care, we need Human Rights to be Equal rights, but I don't see how this applies to addiction. Perhaps you can help me with that.

Sure. And thanks. I DO see a correlation between drug abuse and core issues such as self esteem/ poverty/ childhood abuse.. the list goes on. How many addicts do you know grew up with a complete sense of self? That "something" wasn't wrong with them in their sense of self worth? ALL of the core issues stem from feeling less than and seeking an easy way to "escape" that dark place.

Whether it being gay/ poor/ of color/ differently abled.. such a huge part of our country grows up feeling "othered" as it were that they seek solace in drugs/ alcohol/ sex. As adults we see it as "choice", but as a child who starts using early on, it is just surviving.

Make marijuana legal, sure. It has it's place. As for the rest, keep it illegal and force our legislators to step up and do the right thing for our people. Make discrimination in all forms illegal. Make education the priority for our youth and stop wasting funds on bullshit like sports., or 6 billion for NASA when we have such high unemployment. Tax corporations who send our jobs overseas and use slave labor in other countries while our people are without jobs. Bust up labor unions , which had their purpose in the beginnings but now just price common labor too high for companies to pay, while all of the rights that were needed back in the day are part of equal employment opportunity. We have no need for the high cost of unions today., Half of the folks are unemployed part of the year anyway cause they are on strike. Make immigration easier for folks truly just trying to make a new start.

We have so many common sense things that can be done to make America safe and profitable again and we are weighlayed daily by our "elected" officials. I don't think we are as "under-informed" as folks like to say, moreover we are over-stimulated by floods of half truths coming at us from every direction. More folks need to settle down and look around them and see what really is "real".

What is real is that we need to do away with the two party system as neither are any longer what they say they are. We need to do away with the electoral college ( cause no one is unable to vote anymore which was it's purpose) and the public vote can truly count again. We need to demand resumes from our candidates and see what the hell they have really done and not vote by popularity. If we truly want to be a country run by the people/ for the people, then the people need to get off our ass and hold our representatives responsible to carry out our wishes.

My opinions only and sorry to blurt them out here, I just see so many circular conversations regarding similar ( though worded differently) situations that it makes my skin crawl.

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by Jess

Sure. And thanks. I DO see a correlation between drug abuse and core issues such as self esteem/ poverty/ childhood abuse.. the list goes on. How many addicts do you know grew up with a complete sense of self? That "something" wasn't wrong with them in their sense of self worth? ALL of the core issues stem from feeling less than and seeking an easy way to "escape" that dark place.

Whether it being gay/ poor/ of color/ differently abled.. such a huge part of our country grows up feeling "othered" as it were that they seek solace in drugs/ alcohol/ sex. As adults we see it as "choice", but as a child who starts using early on, it is just surviving.

Make marijuana legal, sure. It has it's place. As for the rest, keep it illegal and force our legislators to step up and do the right thing for our people. Make discrimination in all forms illegal. Make education the priority for our youth and stop wasting funds on bullshit like sports., or 6 billion for NASA when we have such high unemployment. Tax corporations who send our jobs overseas and use slave labor in other countries while our people are without jobs. Bust up labor unions , which had their purpose in the beginnings but now just price common labor too high for companies to pay, while all of the rights that were needed back in the day are part of equal employment opportunity. We have no need for the high cost of unions today., Half of the folks are unemployed part of the year anyway cause they are on strike. Make immigration easier for folks truly just trying to make a new start.

We have so many common sense things that can be done to make America safe and profitable again and we are weighlayed daily by our "elected" officials. I don't think we are as "under-informed" as folks like to say, moreover we are over-stimulated by floods of half truths coming at us from every direction. More folks need to settle down and look around them and see what really is "real".

What is real is that we need to do away with the two party system as neither are any longer what they say they are. We need to do away with the electoral college ( cause no one is unable to vote anymore which was it's purpose) and the public vote can truly count again. We need to demand resumes from our candidates and see what the hell they have really done and not vote by popularity. If we truly want to be a country run by the people/ for the people, then the people need to get off our ass and hold our representatives responsible to carry out our wishes.

My opinions only and sorry to blurt them out here, I just see so many circular conversations regarding similar ( though worded differently) situations that it makes my skin crawl.

There are a lot of good points in your post, but I am going to start with those in bold because they struck a chord with me.

The same can be said for those of us who grew up like that but did not turn out to be addicts, thank God.

I think addiction is a disease, at times it is also hereditary. I am not a addict, so I am not coming from a place of experience of knowing, What I know I have read or learned while working in paces that do deal with addition. I came across a lot of addicts that came from affluent families and who where never exposed to abuse of any kind. So what made them addicts?

To me Human Rights and Equal rights mean different than to you, and that is OK. We simply see things different.

The other part that I highlighted I did because Bullshit like sports kept me away from drugs and alcohol and I know from my life experience and all those thousands of kids that later on I helped through sports, that it did the same from them. So I humbly disagree with that statement, wholeheartedly.

You make a lot of other points that I do agree with, but one, they are off topic and two I have a sugar induced headache. So perhaps at another time I can engage fully on those.

[Jess]

Originally Posted by UofMfan

There are a lot of good points in your post, but I am going to start with those in bold because they struck a chord with me.

The same can be said for those of us who grew up like that but did not turn out to be addicts, thank God.

I think addiction is a disease, at times it is also hereditary. I am not a addict, so I am not coming from a place of experience of knowing, What I know I have read or learned while working in paces that do deal with addition. I came across a lot of addicts that came from affluent families and who where never exposed to abuse of any kind. So what made them addicts?

To me Human Rights and Equal rights mean different than to you, and that is OK. We simply see things different.

The other part that I highlighted I did because Bullshit like sports kept me away from drugs and alcohol and I know from my life experience and all those thousands of kids that later on I helped through sports, that it did the same from them. So I humbly disagree with that statement, wholeheartedly.

You make a lot of other points that I do agree with, but one, they are off topic and two I have a sugar induced headache. So perhaps at another time I can engage fully on those.

Just to let ya know... I never once used heredity as a premise for addiction , although some science does say it plays a role.

While I do see professional sports as bull shit, that is just my opinion and I also played sports in school and found great commraderie in the kinship of completing a common goal.

I don't know how you define Human Rights vs Equal rights, nor do you know how I do as we have not directly addressed this, so I do not understand how you can so readily disagree.

I am sorry you have a headache. Feel better.

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by Jess

Just to let ya know... I never once used heredity as a premise for addiction , although some science does say it plays a role.

While I do see professional sports as bull shit, that is just my opinion and I also played sports in school and found great commraderie in the kinship of completing a common goal.

I don't know how you define Human Rights vs Equal rights, nor do you know how I do as we have not directly addressed this, so I do not understand how you can so readily disagree.

I am sorry you have a headache. Feel better.

No, you didn't, I did. I think it does play a role, but I am only saying that from what I have observed, not backed by any scientific fact.

Playing sports while in school keeps kids off the streets and by default mostly off drugs, I truly believe that. Again, this from personal experience.

I wasn't saying Human Rights Vs. Equal Rights. I am thinking I may not be as articulate as I hope to be. We can certainly discuss that topic at another time.

Thanks for your sentiments about my headache, I have only myself to blame. Darn trip to "Candy's factory", the place I ran into after lunch. How could I resist nerds and gummy bears when I hardly ever get to eat them?!

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Jess

Opinion only...

Legalize pot. Never heard of anyone od'ing on pot or committing homicide in a pot induced haze. Never heard of anyone jonesing so bad for pot they commit larceny or murder or rape. Keep narcotics/ opiate derivitives /methamphetamines etc illegal.

I share this opinion.

Alcohol is legal and yet it's abused regularly and, during the course of the abuse, others are hurt through domestic violence, vehicular homicide, home invasions, etc. That won't change and it won't change if harder drugs are legal, either.

Pot has medicinal value. I do think it should be legal and bought and sold with few or no restrictions, as long as parameters are put into place to prevent folks from coming to work high, thus endangering any and all they come into contact with. I also think that...as someone already mentioned...sex workers should be legal and should be allowed to Unionize if they wish.

[Toph]

Legalize Marijuana!!! think of the generated tax revenue that will cushion the tax payer!!!

not that i smoke it or partake but, with its' prooven medicinal qualities, it can not be any worse than alcohol... however, many have lost their jobs over the use of it.

my view is simple
if workers are forced to into [the humiliation of] random drug tests in order to work (and pay taxes), then career social system abusers ought to be randomly drug tested in order to collect our taxes every month...

*please note* i said career social system abusers!!!

[weatherboi]

What is more humane people?? Letting the cartels control whats available on the street or a country that takes responsibility for a systemic and societal problem that is not going away no mater what we do??


Legalization of all drugs may work if we strictly enforce the points below and allow them the opportunity to systemically work there way into our society.The demand for drugs will always exist. Fear based laws and restrictions only allow the cartels the opportunity to put the drugs on our street. People, those drugs will be finding the way on the street no matter what!!!! We as a country have been fighting the war on drugs since Nixon and it has only cost lives and money. Being in the hospitality industry there is one thing I have learned. If an employee is gonna do drugs on the job it doesn't matter if they are legal or not...he/she is gonna do drugs. If a person is so depressed or distressed that they turn to heroin then they are gonna find it and do it weather it is legal or not.

People have been choosing drugs for self medication purposes, in some form or fashion, since time began. It is inherent in almost every culture on this earth. Why not make them legal so we can control the product???


Permit private companies to compete for licenses to cultivate, harvest, manufacture, package and peddle drugs.

Create regulation agencies (sorry libertarians and paleo-conservatives).

Sanitation, potency and purity. Standards people!! Set em and enforce em!!

In no way shape form or fashion can anything be advertised.

Taxes, fees and fines need to be imposed. Drug-abuse prevention and treatment programs can be paid from this and cover admin costs from regulation.

Just like the alcoholic-beverage-control agencies keep bars and liquor stores in check, the same can be dome with drugs. Understand there will always be a negative element to the drug world weather they are legal or not. Such reforms would in no way excuse drug users who commit crimes.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Jess

Just to let ya know... I never once used heredity as a premise for addiction , although some science does say it plays a role.

While I do see professional sports as bull shit, that is just my opinion and I also played sports in school and found great commraderie in the kinship of completing a common goal.

I don't know how you define Human Rights vs Equal rights, nor do you know how I do as we have not directly addressed this, so I do not understand how you can so readily disagree.

I am sorry you have a headache. Feel better.

[FONT="Century Gothic"]
Early brain studies demonstrated a consistent hereditary relationship between male children and their father’s. concerning alcoholism incidence. But I don’t know if current research has shed any light on this and also the early work just did not focus on women alcoholics. Kind of the same thing as has been true in many medical research areas in which men were the focus (i.e., early heart disease research). Lots of factors of male privilege and stereotypical assumptions about women are behind this. The woman alcoholic was pretty much disregarded for decades. And not studied until women began to enter colleges, professions and the workforce at large in greater numbers. Now, in relationship to breast cancer (in women) and prostate cancer and even testicular cancer in men, the research was skewed in the other direction. Interesting to think about this as historically men seek medical attention less than women and this has some pretty stereotypic gender role assumptions behind it.


This could be very different today (I’m just no longer up with this literature). Also, the advances in MRI imaging and brain studies could have yielded new data. Maybe someone here knows more about current heredity research and alcoholism or other types of addictions that isn’t influenced in the same ways. There could possibly be research today that takes into consideration transgendered and intergendered people and addiction from a heredity perspective. I wonder..... this could throw a whole new set of variables in the mix!

My mind just works this way.... seems there are ever evolving ways to look at things.[/FONT]

[Jess]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

[FONT="Century Gothic"]
Early brain studies demonstrated a consistent hereditary relationship between male children and their father’s. concerning alcoholism incidence. But I don’t know if current research has shed any light on this and also the early work just did not focus on women alcoholics. Kind of the same thing as has been true in many medical research areas in which men were the focus (i.e., early heart disease research). Lots of factors of male privilege and stereotypical assumptions about women are behind this. The woman alcoholic was pretty much disregarded for decades. And not studied until women began to enter colleges, professions and the workforce at large in greater numbers. Now, in relationship to breast cancer (in women) and prostate cancer and even testicular cancer in men, the research was skewed in the other direction. Interesting to think about this as historically men seek medical attention less than women and this has some pretty stereotypic gender role assumptions behind it.


This could be very different today (I’m just no longer up with this literature). Also, the advances in MRI imaging and brain studies could have yielded new data. Maybe someone here knows more about current heredity research and alcoholism or other types of addictions that isn’t influenced in the same ways. There could possibly be research today that takes into consideration transgendered and intergendered people and addiction from a heredity perspective. I wonder..... this could throw a whole new set of variables in the mix!

My mind just works this way.... seems there are ever evolving ways to look at things.[/FONT]

Great points. Actually breast cancer research was primarily done on men for years. I think it was around 1989 or so that a huge push was made to do more research on women, cause gee, ya know.. we have breasts.

Now that we actually have cases of men getting types of breast cancer of course we need to do more work with their bodies.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Jess

Great points. Actually breast cancer research was primarily done on men for years. I think it was around 1989 or so that a huge push was made to do more research on women, cause gee, ya know.. we have breasts.

Now that we actually have cases of men getting types of breast cancer of course we need to do more work with their bodies.

Thanks... I kind of remember the nutso collection of breast cancer data about men initially. I think that the push to study women (yeah, we do have those breasts!) also shifted due to the upsurge of estrogen related breast cancer after the early years of women taking birth control pills. The first BC pills available had insane amounts of estgrogen!!! My Mom was in the first clinical trials of the little pink pill and devoloped one of these breast cancers. Also, many women taking the early generation of the pill developed problems conceiving when they did desire to get pregnant.

Absolutely, cancer research needs to be gender neutral...

[Toughy]

I'm not remembering that breast cancer research was done in men first.........shrug...........who has a link for this? Cancer research should not always be gender neutral. There are cancers that are not gender neutral.

Narcotics.......poppy based pharmaceutical drugs in the morphine family.........have huge medicinal value.

I'm a self proclaimed outlaw and proud of it. I never have done any drug because of the thrill of doing something illegal.....and none of my friends did it for some bogus crap like that.............

My granddaddy was a moonshiner (and the sheriff)........he didn't make moonshine for some thrill of breaking the law...he was the law.....he did it cuz he liked moonshine and liked the money he made from selling it..........

Romanticizing why folks use is not useful.

I think it is a red herring to suggest pot or any other drug should be legal based on medicinal value. I'm not a fan of the 'legalize pot because it's medicinal' club. Legalize pot because it's stupid to have it illegal. It grows everywhere and I mean everywhere in the world.

I think drug testing for employment is bullshit. I don't care if the clerk at the local grocery store is stoned or not.......who gives a shit as long as they can pass the product across the bar code machine. Drug testing that finds THC present says nothing about my ability to function at the time I pissed in the cup. It just says I smoked pot sometime in the last 2-3 days or month or was in a room full of folks smoking the night before. General employment drug screens only say positive or negative. You can test positive for pot for years after you last smoked some........THC is fat soluble (is stored in fat) chemical and if you start losing weight you can test positive even if you haven't smoked pot for months.

Anyone with half a brain can figure out the half-life of the their prescribed or illegal drug of choice..........it's all out there on the net. Pre-emploment drug testing is kind of like you have to take off your shoes and are limited to only 3 oz containers of liquids and toothpaste and they must be in a quart baggie ....and then there was you can have up to 3 books of matches but NO lighters.........ignorant bullshit that gives you a false sense of security. And if you have a prescription then it's all good.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by UofMfan

You make a lot of other points that I do agree with, but one, they are off topic and two I have a sugar induced headache. So perhaps at another time I can engage fully on those.

Hah! Lightweight. I will see your sugar induced headache and raise you a caffeine-withdrawl headache -and- upset stomache. (I get a headache and throw up if I don't get enough coffee - speaking of which...I need to go make another pot.)

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by betenoire

Hah! Lightweight. I will see your sugar induced headache and raise you a caffeine-withdrawl headache -and- upset stomache. (I get a headache and throw up if I don't get enough coffee - speaking of which...I need to go make another pot.)

Ha! Since I am not allowed to have caffeine, I will raise you a pot of the best decaf coffee in the world and the upset stomach (I am sure to get one) plus I will throw in a little of my day did not start well headache. So there!