Ask a trans person!

[Esme nha Maire]

Anya, thank you. Probably me overthinking things, then.

[Martina]

I think it is rude to ask if you are just curious, but if it is a potential dating situation, you need to know.

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by Esme nha Maire

Anya, thank you. Probably me overthinking things, then.

You are welcome!

I had another thought.

No matter who we are attracted to, people change over the years.

We have no way to know when someone may be unconsciously struggling with gender or identity issues.

As time goes on, the unconscious can become conscious.

It does not mean that the person was being dishonest, they may not have even been aware of their feelings.

There is no way to prepare for every eventuality.

When I was 16, I saw my first butch. I knew that she gave me butterflies in my stomach and that I felt extremely nervous when I was around her.

I married and had 2 children before my repressed lesbian feelings came to the surface and I was in touch with them consciously.

The end of my marriage had zero to do with this but what if it did?

All we can do is to be as honest as we can be with ourselves and pay attention to anything that gives us concern when we meet people to date.

Dating is anxiety-producing, regardless.

Sometimes, we just have to take a chance and go for it.

I have been single again since this past October. I just realized it has been 10 months and that I still have not felt ready to date yet.

I can give advice, maybe I should take it...

[Vivacious1]

While reading the past few post, I had another question come up for whoever wants to answer...
I have personally know several trans men that felt it was not important to share their transition with women that they dated... Wondering what others think on this????

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by DaddyChrisCo

All you can do is have a conversation with them.. simply ask if they are from and just tell them you mean no harm and let them know your preferance..honesty and being upfront is always the answer

Yes.

Esme, nha Maire,

Yes, it is completely appropriate (and most likely appreciated) to ask those questions. In places where you find butch,femme, and trans identifying people, gender is talked about a lot. Part of that is because people are figuring out for themselves who they are as it relates to gender. On top of that is figuring out who you are attracted to! Therefore, it is common, very common, expected really, that soon in one would ask how the person identifies. You hear a lot more variance in butches than you do in femmes. I think that part of that is because one slides along the gender continuum with butches in the way that you don't (as often), with femmes.

It sounds like you are interested in a female identified butch. You may only be interested in a female identified and woman identified butch (who most likely identifies as a lesbian).

Too, I think it would be prudent to ask any butch presenting female bodied person if they have ever considered transitioning. If they say, yes they have, you might want to take pause. Like you said, no reason to start going down a road that leads to only heartbreak. I am with you.

Prior to transitioning I identified as a Stone Butch. Which, for me, meant no sexual contact with my chest or genitals in the bedroom. I also did not identify as a woman. I dated queer stone femmes. The queer stone femmes I dated didn't want to touch my chest or "junk" any more than I wanted them to. They didn't see themselves as a lesbian because they had no interest in interacting with a female chest or genitals. I didn't view myself as a lesbian because I wasn't a woman. So it all worked out!

Anyway, know what you want, and make sure that both the person's gender identity and their sexual preferences are a match for you. It is pretty common to find butch/femme folks involved in kink or BDSM.

Good luck!

[AmazonDC]

Originally Posted by Vivacious1

While reading the past few post, I had another question come up for whoever wants to answer...
I have personally know several trans men that felt it was not important to share their transition with women that they dated... Wondering what others think on this????

Personally My opinion is if you are in a relationship there should be no secrets... I am all about up front honesty...this was one of the first things Gemme and I discussed

[Vivacious1]

what if it is just casual dating?

The reason that I am curious is, that I know some folks that date and don't disclose... what if it gets serious, would that be considered deception?

[AmazonDC]

Originally Posted by Vivacious1

what if it is just casual dating?

The reason that I am curious is, that I know some folks that date and don't disclose... what if it gets serious, would that be considered deception?

Yes honesty is above everything else.. I would never be with someone I couldn't be with.. maybe that person is just uncomfortable talking about it? But it needs to be talked about.. weather it is casual or serious

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by Vivacious1

what if it is just casual dating?

The reason that I am curious is, that I know some folks that date and don't disclose... what if it gets serious, would that be considered deception?

i would want to know right up front.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Vivacious1

I found this thread very interesting as well. I can relate to some, and some makes me have more questions.

I too was in a relationship with an FTM... He transitioned very shortly after we got together. It was a whirlwind experience for me, scary as well... confusing.. etc

I supported him through his top surgery which scared the crap outta me because I had to take care of him in the hotel after surgery, tubes and drains everywhere... Of course I messed it up, and he had to have a revision... BAD way to start a relationship...

The things I experienced with him was an excess of anger and blame, always to be put off by saying its the *T*

Then there was the group of friends that were also trans men and the comments such as *I can't believe you still ID as lesbian" I felt that they thought there was something wrong with me!!!!

Fast forward, eventually when we broke up, the comment was, * I shoulda stayed butch and you wouldn't be leaving*

Unfortunately, I think I got a lot of messages that weren't correct and maybe specific to this relationship, but, regardless, I was left feeling it was all about the trans man, and what about the femme on the other side? I was a femme, I was lost in this process of someone else's transition...

So, I guess with all this said, I am looking for clarity.. I am looking for someone that relates... maybe from the FTM side or the femme side!!!!

When trans people are medically transitioning, their partners are transitioning, as well. They get lost in their partners' transition, and that isn't fair. A good gender therapist will think about the trans person's partner, and other family members, too. There are a handful support groups on FB for partners of trans people.
One partner's gender identity/sexual orientation should not define the other person's. There is nothing wrong with identifying as lesbian when you are with a trans man. People identify as lesbian and date cis, straight men.
T is a bullshit excuse. Trans men don't get a pass on learning to manage this agitating-type hormone any more than cis men do.
Unless it is something super obvious, I suspect his need for revision had nothing to do with your care. Many, many guys need revisions after top surgery.

Originally Posted by Vivacious1

While reading the past few post, I had another question come up for whoever wants to answer...
I have personally know several trans men that felt it was not important to share their transition with women that they dated... Wondering what others think on this????

Are you talking about trans men who are moving through society as male? Are you talking about when they are dating in the heterosexual community?

I am asking because the other poster was talking about trans guys who are pre-T, and if she it is rude to ask masculine looking females if they identify as butch or trans/ a combo of both.

These are two different topics, in my mind.

Originally Posted by Vivacious1

what if it is just casual dating?

The reason that I am curious is, that I know some folks that date and don't disclose... what if it gets serious, would that be considered deception?

Same as above.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

One partner's gender identity/sexual orientation should not define the other person's. There is nothing wrong with identifying as lesbian when you are with a trans man. People identify as lesbian and date cis, straight men.

Wow. As a lesbian, I can tell you that negates the very essence of who we are.

It is also derogating, insulting and demeaning.

[BullDog]

Kobi, I really hope you are just speaking for yourself because there are plenty of lesbians that don't share your views, and there are lesbians who do date trans men and they still identify as lesbians.

[Gemme]

Word, Bully.

[AmazonDC]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Kobi, I really hope you are just speaking for yourself because there are plenty of lesbians that don't share your views, and there are lesbians who do date trans men and they still identify as lesbians.

AGREED!!!! Couldnt have said it better Myself...

[Kobi]

If who you sleep with does not define who and what you are, then you are negating the very essence of not only lesbianism but of homosexuality itself. And you are also negating the concept of sexual orientation.

That is some major homophobia rearing its ugly head.

The fact that people do not find this disturbing on a queer site is mind boggling.

[AmazonDC]

Originally Posted by Kobi

If who you sleep with does not define who and what you are, then you are negating the very essence of not only lesbianism but of homosexuality itself. And you are also negating the concept of sexual orientation.

That is some major homophobia rearing its ugly head.

The fact that people do not find this disturbing on a queer site is mind boggling.

I have found that lesbians are the most judgmental in accepting of all lgbtq... so you are saying in your eyes ftm and people Like Me Queer Middle sexed people should not be here??? That's the very definition of homophobia... and non acceptance of every flavor of Our big rainbow... Not every lesbian is just a simple butch or femme... there are many spectrums... the lesbian community lacks acceptance of things other than the cookie cutter "lesbian "... makes Me very sad

[BullDog]

Kobi, I find your transphobia mind boggling.

First of all, how is your life, identity, sexuality, sexual orientation, gender identity or anything else defined by someone else's dating choices?

Another lesbian's dating life doesn't define me or anyone else.

And who you date does not define who you are either. If I ended up dating someone who didn't id as femme that wouldn't mean I wasn't butch all of a sudden.

A lesbian can date another lesbian, another woman who doesn't id as lesbian, someone gender queer, a trans man, a cis man, etc. She may very still see herself as a lesbian because that is how she has id'd for a long time and it didn't suddenly change just because she is dating someone of a different id than she did before.

Being a lesbian is not just about who you sleep with. There are community and social ties, your own personal history, your own sense of how you identify and a whole host of other factors that go into it.

You only get to define lesbian for you Kobi.

[JDeere]

Originally Posted by Kobi

If who you sleep with does not define who and what you are, then you are negating the very essence of not only lesbianism but of homosexuality itself. And you are also negating the concept of sexual orientation.

That is some major homophobia rearing its ugly head.

The fact that people do not find this disturbing on a queer site is mind boggling.

I'm asking for myself, not anyone else. Do you see or define lesbian as 2 cis gendered women in an adult relationship?

[hopelessromantic69]

Originally Posted by JDeere

I'm asking for myself, not anyone else. Do you see or define lesbian as 2 cis gendered women in an adult relationship?

In my opinion no one has the right to define anyone's relationship. I'm not sure why people think they are so important that they can impose their opinions on a whole group of people. We all need to stop slapping labels on people and let them live their life as they see fit.
As a trans man I have been shocked by how a small group of woman in our community like to marginalize FTMs when they them selves are marginalized by our society as a whole. You would think they would have a better understanding of how that feels.
Also, enough with the definitions. They are only someone's opinion anyway. How about we are all just human beings. There! Then no one can judge or hate if we are not defined, categorized or labeled. We are not insects for god sakes.
Sorry JDeere for jumping on my soap box. I get tired of being analyzed just to make a few others feel superior over another group of people.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by JDeere

I'm asking for myself, not anyone else. Do you see or define lesbian as 2 cis gendered women in an adult relationship?

A lesbian by definition is a female homosexual aka same sex.

A gay man, by definition is a male homosexual aka same sex.

A bisexual, by definition is someone who sleeps with both sexes.

A heterosexual, by definition pertains to opposite sexes.

These are not my definitions, they are the definitions of sexual orientation.

This next part has nothing to do with you JD.

If you believe someone can identify as a lesbian or a female homosexual and sleep with trans or cis men or butches with dont touch my woman parts parameters, you have just negated their homosexuality/lesbianism/same sex orientation. You have just said, they are other than woman oriented, thus not homosexual. That is simple applied logic and common sense.

When a lesbian speaks to this, she does so because her identity as a female homosexual/same sex person is being negated or marginalized or distorted in their own supposed community by their own supposed community members. That is being disrespectful of someone else's identity. It is also homophobic.

And, more amazingly, the 4 of you think a female sticking up for herself and for homosexuals somehow translates into transphobia? Wow, talk about adding insult to injury.

A woman can say she is a lesbian or homosexual and sleep with variations of maleness but that is the antithesis of what a female homosexual is. I can say I am a heterosexual woman who only sleeps with other women but that is the antithesis of a heterosexual. I can say I am a giraffe but the other giraffes just pat me on the head and laugh at me when I do that - long story.

Gay people fight for gay marriage and even gay rights because they are homosexuals - same sex folks who fight for our right to exist, to be seen for who we are, and to be respected for who we are. And who we are are homosexuals - in same sex relationships.

And no one, even our own community, has the right to negate who we are, define who we are, to tell us we are something other than what we are, or to misconstrue the reality of who we are to make it more convenient for or more in tune to what they need us to be in order to validate themselves.

And, as I am on a roll here, this behavior is very much coming from a place of real or imagined male privilege. Hence, it is not only homophobic, it is also sexist and misogynistic.