Safety in a Failing Economy

[uniquetobeme]

i am extremely concerned about the economy and my families well being. I am a single mom with 3 kids, and my son's boyfriend lives with us also. I went through a break up in 2009 that left me in financial ruin and I am also making much less money than I used to earn.
I am barely scraping by, yet I know that I have it better than a lot of people.
I live in a suburban area and I don't have a yard for a garden, but I plan to use containers this spring to grow food.
I keep saying if I ever win the lottery I want to buy land and build a self sustained farm that is organic and humane to animals. (not that owning livestock can ever be humane, but as humane as possible). But, I don't know the first thing about farming.
I find it so sad that we are being poisoned by the crap that is manufactured andante that animals are treated so harshly.
I would love to come out some weekends and help, when it warms up a bit...that is if I can afford the gas. I've heard it is supposed to go way up...which means the price of food is going to go up even higher.
My mom owns a large plot of land in West Virginia and many times, lately, I have contemplated moving there and seeing if I could talk them into starting an organic farm.
I don't think a lot of people are seeing the writing on the wall. Most of America is asleep at the wheel. There are lots of web sites on emergency preparedness and survival training. My 14 year old is constantly watching the videos. he has a bug out bag that has a few essentials inside. We also have a pantry with extra water and flood, but I don't think we could survive for more than a week. Plus, society in America has become so much more violent. If people are hungry, they will fight and kill for the food. Not all, but there will be some who would. I haven't read all the thread, so I apologize for redundancy. The reality that things are going to get worse economically for the middle and lower class is a real possibility, if not inevetable. I am learning to appreciate the little things in life and be grateful for what I do have, but I can't say that I'm not really scared. Things can get really crazy in the world really fast and those that aren't prepared are going to have a really hard time.
I am grateful for this thread because hopefully some people will see it and take measures before it is too late.
Also, I use freecycle to get things for free (and to give things away) and I also use couponmom.com for saving on groceries when I have time. Which, unfortunately isn't often. ( hopefully there aren't too many typos...I did this from my phone)

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by uniquetobeme

i am extremely concerned about the economy and my families well being. I am a single mom with 3 kids, and my son's boyfriend lives with us also. I went through a break up in 2009 that left me in financial ruin and I am also making much less money than I used to earn.
I am barely scraping by, yet I know that I have it better than a lot of people.
I live in a suburban area and I don't have a yard for a garden, but I plan to use containers this spring to grow food.
I keep saying if I ever win the lottery I want to buy land and build a self sustained farm that is organic and humane to animals. (not that owning livestock can ever be humane, but as humane as possible). But, I don't know the first thing about farming.
I find it so sad that we are being poisoned by the crap that is manufactured andante that animals are treated so harshly.
I would love to come out some weekends and help, when it warms up a bit...that is if I can afford the gas. I've heard it is supposed to go way up...which means the price of food is going to go up even higher.
My mom owns a large plot of land in West Virginia and many times, lately, I have contemplated moving there and seeing if I could talk them into starting an organic farm.
I don't think a lot of people are seeing the writing on the wall. Most of America is asleep at the wheel. There are lots of web sites on emergency preparedness and survival training. My 14 year old is constantly watching the videos. he has a bug out bag that has a few essentials inside. We also have a pantry with extra water and flood, but I don't think we could survive for more than a week. Plus, society in America has become so much more violent. If people are hungry, they will fight and kill for the food. Not all, but there will be some who would. I haven't read all the thread, so I apologize for redundancy. The reality that things are going to get worse economically for the middle and lower class is a real possibility, if not inevetable. I am learning to appreciate the little things in life and be grateful for what I do have, but I can't say that I'm not really scared. Things can get really crazy in the world really fast and those that aren't prepared are going to have a really hard time.
I am grateful for this thread because hopefully some people will see it and take measures before it is too late.
Also, I use freecycle to get things for free (and to give things away) and I also use couponmom.com for saving on groceries when I have time. Which, unfortunately isn't often. ( hopefully there aren't too many typos...I did this from my phone)

Is moving to your mom's land an option? If it is, that sounds like a good plan especially if you have strong kids willing to help you. Will it be easy? Nope, it won't but it will get easier and it will be worth it. If you can earn some kind of income there that seems like your best option. Start a garden, till the soil, grow extra things like tomatoes, greens, almost anything you can sell on the side of the road. There is most likely a horse farm close around there that will give you manure. have your boys till it into the soil good. In fact see if the horse stable will let them work a few hours a week for money and or to trade for the use of a tiller. I had a guy that lived down the street, very close that I use to trade with. He would bring his tractor and tiller and till for me. He sold his tractor. Now I have to rent one. But if there is a farmer close I bet he/she could use an extra hand and will trade with you. Gotta work hard tho.

If you need seeds I'll send you some. If you need laying hens you gotta come get them. But on craigslist you can probably buy chicks pretty cheap in the spring.

I feel safer on land then I would in the city. each year I put in more fruit bushes and trees. My hope is to get a shower and potty built by the barn so people can at least camp out and help develop the land.

[uniquetobeme]

I did buy a little herb garden today :-). I don't know much about farming. I would need to look into it some more. I'd want to find out how to become certified organic. I'd also like to build some cabins and have a little writers retreat or something like that. This particular area could use a decent cultural type center. There is not much to do around there. I would like to open up a used/new bookstore and maybe a coffee shop or bar and have theme nights and live music, maybe a thrift store too. (couldnt do the shop on my mom's land...there is a river and the only way to get to the propery is a long walk over the swinging bridge or to drive a vehicle through the shallow part of the water. The best part of moving is most of my family is there and it would be nice to be near my family. It is also very isolated...I probably wouldn't have many friends and it is highly unlikely that I'd find anyone that I could date. LOL there are probably only 2 lesbians in the entire town! LOL, if that many :-). I'd love to have a writers resort or a couples retreat on the property. I don't think there are any horse farms, but my aunt and uncle own about 3 horses. I just don't know how I would survive until I started to make money and I'm also worried about health insurance. I'll give it more thought and talk with my mom more about it. it would be a big move, but I'd have lots of help, love and support from my family. (again typing from my phone...my cat destroyed my router by knocking over a glass of water onto it!)

[uniquetobeme]

I talked to my mom last night and she is going to talk to her husband and then I'm going to do a bit more research. It sounds like a good idea in theory. Probably, if something doesn't give here within a year, I will move to WVA. In the meantime, I will do as much research as I can :-)
The thought of growing a real watermelon from non-genetically modified seeds is almost enough to motivate me to make such a change right away! Haven't had a good watermelon since I was a kid!

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by uniquetobeme

I talked to my mom last night and she is going to talk to her husband and then I'm going to do a bit more research. It sounds like a good idea in theory. Probably, if something doesn't give here within a year, I will move to WVA. In the meantime, I will do as much research as I can :-)
The thought of growing a real watermelon from non-genetically modified seeds is almost enough to motivate me to make such a change right away! Haven't had a good watermelon since I was a kid!

I am sorry it took me so long to respond. I've been very busy.

What exactly are you waiting to see happen? I feel the best course of action, especially if you have kids, is to move towards safety and sustainability. I do know you need income. Is it possible for you to get some kind of job where your mom is?

Sometimes it takes a leap of faith and learning as you go. You're lucky that you have some little helpers. Pull your family together, make a plan and start moving in that direction. If you'd like to come down some weekends and help I'm sure you'll learn a lot and meet some great people.

[uniquetobeme]

I'm waiting for my son to graduate. Unfortunately, the last 5 years have been crazy in my world and my sons had to change schools 4 times. (I went through a really bad breakup in 2009 that really impacted our lives) so I don't want to move him another time.
The other issue is my 14 year has some medical problems that need to be resolved before I move and I found out he has to have 2 more surgeries :-(.
I am also thinking about going back to school to be a social worker.
I am giving it serious consideration, but I can't move just yet. My eldest son's boyfriend (he is 18) lives with us and he also has another year until he graduates.
I'm certainly keeping the idea in my head as a possibility. I wish I had a crystal ball to see what the best choices were, but I guess that would take the fun out of life. :-).
I would like to know more about some of the struggles people have had setting up a farm, and also about issues such as health insurance and things like that.
I was thinking, if I got a degree in Education, I could work at a school in the area and do farming in the summer.
Life is so full of complicated decisions. I know I long for a more simple life :-)
Thank you all for your support and advice :-)

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by uniquetobeme

I'm waiting for my son to graduate. Unfortunately, the last 5 years have been crazy in my world and my sons had to change schools 4 times. (I went through a really bad breakup in 2009 that really impacted our lives) so I don't want to move him another time.
The other issue is my 14 year has some medical problems that need to be resolved before I move and I found out he has to have 2 more surgeries :-(.
I am also thinking about going back to school to be a social worker.
I am giving it serious consideration, but I can't move just yet. My eldest son's boyfriend (he is 18) lives with us and he also has another year until he graduates.
I'm certainly keeping the idea in my head as a possibility. I wish I had a crystal ball to see what the best choices were, but I guess that would take the fun out of life. :-).
I would like to know more about some of the struggles people have had setting up a farm, and also about issues such as health insurance and things like that.
I was thinking, if I got a degree in Education, I could work at a school in the area and do farming in the summer.
Life is so full of complicated decisions. I know I long for a more simple life :-)
Thank you all for your support and advice :-)

I have a thread here called Sachita Collective where we will document the progress at the farm. Or you can also subscribe to www.sachitacollective.com there is a place to add your email on the left and it will send you an email each time we post to the blog.

A site that I find very helpful is http://rodaleinstitute.org/ there is lots of valuable articles, market studies, etc. Decide on a clear plan based on your ability. If you have a few teenage son's grab your tent and bring their butts down here to help us! lol You'll learn a lot.

Once we get ramped up our goal is to not only operate a successful organic farm business for the farm family but to teach other women to start up and operate the same. Hopefully we'll have some clear grant and loan options. Anyhow, much of this will be discussed in the thread. If you and your boys decide to come down let me know. I can help you with gas and feed you while you are here. We really could use some strong backs to clean up the greenhouse area and start tilling very soon.

[uniquetobeme]

I will plan on coming for a weekend sometime between April and late June. We can plan a specific date as it gets closer. It sounds like it will be hard work, but great fun and a good chance to see how it works for me before jumping in with both feet and moving to WVA. My 17 year old is a football player, so I enlist his help for moving heavy things :-) My 14 year old wants to try "bugging out" and see how we do. This would be a great opportunity for him to get his wish :-)

For some reason, I don't know why, whenever I think about starting a farm, or farm life and communal type living, Nathaniel Hawthorne's book, The Blithedale Romance, comes to mind. It was a strange book...interesting, but strange. LOL The main character, Miles Coverdale, was a strange man. Anyway, back to the topic...

I am wondering what I need to be prepared to bring. Do you have restroom facilities and a shower? If not, I'm thinking I will see if I can find portable ones. When I used to visit my Grandma's (the place I'm thinking of moving to) she had an outhouse, a well outside of the house to pump water, and wood stoves...They did have electricity, but that was it. I remember how much I loved watching the light flicker on the walls at night and sleeping with 10 quilts at night because it was so cold in the winter :-)

I do believe in fate, and I think life will lead me in the right direction. It's kind of funny, because I said that if I won the lottery I would want to start my own organic farm, and I haven't won the lottery, but the opportunity to start a farm at my Mom's house can be a reality. I just wish I had more "cushion" to get started :-) (Still waiting on the lottery part.. LOL)

[aishah]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

I honestly don't know. I think there are so many things that need to happen to lift up the people in poverty in the US. A lot of those things are being addressed by the Occupy movement right now. I think it would be great if we all had some option to "live off the grid" so to speak. I am not the best at being able to answer your question because I happen to be someone with very little money myself.

I live with my folks and I am on disability. They live in a planned community where the home owners association tells you what you can and can't do with your tiny front and back yards. Anything you do to your home, including what color you paint it, is dictated by the HOA here. And my folks are retired and don't have the physical ability to plant anything. They pay people to mow their lawn every week. I have agoraphobia so going out of the house isn't exactly easy for me. I don't mind trying to fix things or putting them together as long as I am in the house.

I think all the ideas put forth in this thread are great. I just don't know how people without much in the way of resources (such as moi) would be able to put them into practice. Does that somehow offend you dykeumentary?

i feel this so much.

i love talking about sustainability, survival, etc. but i struggle with it a lot when working with sustainability organizers because frequently the solutions presented are NOT realistic for elders and disabled people especially, but also poor people and others. yes, in some urban areas now, if you are poor you can work on a community farm - IF you are able bodied. the truth is, most disabled people are going to be fucked when shit hits the fan because of our society's rampant individualist, independence/dependence model of dealing with disability. and there is still a LOT of 'survival of the fittest,' 'we'd be better off without the cripples' sentiment in the u.s. generally speaking. there's also a huge disconnect (in my experience) between folks who live off the grid due to severe mcs and folks who live off the grid for sustainability reasons, but there is so much in common between those two groups. i also feel like those of us who are working on building interdependent community-built access could probably focus more on working sustainably.. a lot of the work i've been doing over the last several months has dealt with introducing disability justice principles into permaculture/holistic health/sustainable living communities and trying to bridge the gaps between us. i'm not sure what the right answer is yet. but i think it's important to include disability in these conversations.

to answer the original question of the thread...

People across the world are concerned with the economic systems, food safety and how they might survive a natural catastrophic event. I know that many of you are on fixed incomes, perhaps SS and government programs that help subsidize your income. In the event there was a shut down or program cuts, how would it effect you and what is your back-up plan?

this is actually why i started doing sex work. if our entire society were to collapse or there were some kind of natural disaster it wouldn't be a viable option for me, but being a disabled person who doesn't have access to benefits and having lost my job during the recession, it is the best option for me right now. so sex work has always been my backup plan, i suppose.

i'm surprised no one's mentioned octavia butler yet...her book 'parable of the sower' is one of my favorites and was my first real introduction to sustainability/survivalist thinking.

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by aishah

i feel this so much.

i love talking about sustainability, survival, etc. but i struggle with it a lot when working with sustainability organizers because frequently the solutions presented are NOT realistic for elders and disabled people especially, but also poor people and others. yes, in some urban areas now, if you are poor you can work on a community farm - IF you are able bodied. the truth is, most disabled people are going to be fucked when shit hits the fan because of our society's rampant individualist, independence/dependence model of dealing with disability. and there is still a LOT of 'survival of the fittest,' 'we'd be better off without the cripples' sentiment in the u.s. generally speaking. there's also a huge disconnect (in my experience) between folks who live off the grid due to severe mcs and folks who live off the grid for sustainability reasons, but there is so much in common between those two groups. i also feel like those of us who are working on building interdependent community-built access could probably focus more on working sustainably.. a lot of the work i've been doing over the last several months has dealt with introducing disability justice principles into permaculture/holistic health/sustainable living communities and trying to bridge the gaps between us. i'm not sure what the right answer is yet. but i think it's important to include disability in these conversations.

to answer the original question of the thread...



this is actually why i started doing sex work. if our entire society were to collapse or there were some kind of natural disaster it wouldn't be a viable option for me, but being a disabled person who doesn't have access to benefits and having lost my job during the recession, it is the best option for me right now. so sex work has always been my backup plan, i suppose.

i'm surprised no one's mentioned octavia butler yet...her book 'parable of the sower' is one of my favorites and was my first real introduction to sustainability/survivalist thinking.

I really want to address this but not sure how. I can talk about our challenges in bringing together a sustainable farm community. Everyone needs to do "something" in order for it to work. Exactly what that "something" is depends on the individual and needs of the community. Even if there are programs for each community to assist people with disabilities or elderly there obviously has to be a balance because you can't have a village of 30 disabled people and 5 able workers. The other thing that would concern me is what would define disability. I see able bodied people that could do "something" and not doing anything.

It doesn't cost money to make movement. I honestly get sick of the word "I can't" and hear too much of it. As long as we keep convincing ourselves that is the pattern we'll create. Learn something, teach, do anything but sit there or spend countless hours online complaining about what you don't have. This is not directed at you BTW, but my mindset. I am impressed by your gumption and honesty. I see nothing wrong with sex work if it doesnt eat your power. If you're ok with it and can use it as an effective tool then by all means! You go girl! But if you strive to step up then do it. You seem very articulate and intelligent. I bet you have a lot to offer without using your back.

But I'm not going to get caught up in the PC of it all. I do understand that they must be addressed and its everyone's responsibly.

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by apretty

I really wish that you hadn't written this--It's (your reasoning is) startlingly ugly and dismissive to someone that is apparently, an ally.

I didn't mean in reference to sex work. Not at all. I meant physically work. But I should have worded it differently. Obviously I have nothing against sex work since I was a professional dominatrix for quite a number of years and have done phone sex work. My comment wasn't addressing her sex work.

[Sachita]

aishah my apologies please.

I meant to say that you seem like someone that could help teach others. If someone is disabled and able to articulate the way that you do and some of the things you are passionate about, it seems you would be a great asset to teach people.

I know a woman right now that is in a wheel chair and has lost use of one whole side of her body. She works for an organization I am networking with as a record keeper and also provides the organization with countless research. She was so passionate about food safety that she taught herself these skills, how she could be valuable and then offered her services free for a chance to prove what she could do. Needless to say, years later she is an employee and very proactive for the cause.

[aishah]

i do teach people, i just don't get paid for it. i also have many other skills and have worked a number of other jobs, they just don't involve lifting more than 5 lbs or standing up for more than 5 minutes. or having decent balance, a great memory, the ability to focus for long periods of time, etc. etc.

i find it frustrating when people assume i'm 'high functioning' because i am so 'articulate' because there is this underlying value judgment that goes with it - i am good and those other disabled people are bad. that's really not okay. people do this a lot with me in real life because i don't 'look disabled.' (i have cerebral palsy, spinal cord injuries, osteoarthritis, and fibromyalgia.) it's not about being 'pc,' it's about - if we are going to talk about futurism, if we are going to talk abut survival in the future, i believe we have to talk about a future that includes everyone. not just able-bodied or 'high functioning' (vomit) disabled people. that's all i'm saying. and having those conversations is also part of the work of building a society that is actually inclusive of everyone in the present, too (which we don't have).

I really want to address this but not sure how. I can talk about our challenges in bringing together a sustainable farm community. Everyone needs to do "something" in order for it to work. Exactly what that "something" is depends on the individual and needs of the community. Even if there are programs for each community to assist people with disabilities or elderly there obviously has to be a balance because you can't have a village of 30 disabled people and 5 able workers. The other thing that would concern me is what would define disability. I see able bodied people that could do "something" and not doing anything.

imho the method of creating 'assistance programs' that we have now is not a sustainable, interdependent way of dealing with disability. i also find it helpful to think of disability as a spectrum rather than a discrete category. the fact is, everyone has access needs - the difference between you and me is society is set up to deal with yours and not mine. in order for everyone - including disabled folks usually labeled 'low functioning' - to be included, their access needs would have to be taken into account. but that really isn't that difficult, to be honest. i do non-profit work in a community of disabled people with a huge variety of disabilities and access needs, and we get shit done. we just have patience and understanding for one another, and we don't expect each other to interact or do everything the exact same way. for example, there's a man who lives downtown in the city where i live and he is considered 'low-functioning' because he has a lot of difficulty with adls (adult daily living skills) due to his developmental disability. he would not be able to hold a job even using voc rehab services because most jobs are not willing to work with his access needs. but he does a billion different odd jobs for the stores downtown and the employees there take care of him and work with his access needs (having short, defined tasks - doing one task before being told to do the next one rather than working down a list - that sort of thing).

in my experience, the work of building supportive community among people with disabilities has a lot to do with not assuming that everyone does everything the same way and with being flexible and supportive in that way.

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by aishah

i do teach people, i just don't get paid for it. i also have many other skills and have worked a number of other jobs, they just don't involve lifting more than 5 lbs or standing up for more than 5 minutes. or having decent balance, a great memory, the ability to focus for long periods of time, etc. etc.

it's not about being 'pc,' it's about - if we are going to talk about futurism, if we are going to talk abut survival in the future, i believe we have to talk about a future that includes everyone. not just able-bodied or 'high functioning' (vomit) disabled people. that's all i'm saying. and having those conversations is also part of the work of building a society that is actually inclusive of everyone in the present, too (which we don't have).

I agree. So let's talk. How do you see it in your minds eye?

[aishah]

sorry, i was just editing while you were writing i hope that answers the question to some extent.

imho the method of creating 'assistance programs' that we have now is not a sustainable, interdependent way of dealing with disability. i also find it helpful to think of disability as a spectrum rather than a discrete category. the fact is, everyone has access needs - the difference between you and me is society is set up to deal with yours and not mine. in order for everyone - including disabled folks usually labeled 'low functioning' - to be included, their access needs would have to be taken into account. but that really isn't that difficult, to be honest. i do non-profit work in a community of disabled people with a huge variety of disabilities and access needs, and we get shit done. we just have patience and understanding for one another, and we don't expect each other to interact or do everything the exact same way. for example, there's a man who lives downtown in the city where i live and he is considered 'low-functioning' because he has a lot of difficulty with adls (adult daily living skills) due to his developmental disability. he would not be able to hold a job even using voc rehab services because most jobs are not willing to work with his access needs. but he does a billion different odd jobs for the stores downtown and the employees there take care of him and work with his access needs (having short, defined tasks - doing one task before being told to do the next one rather than working down a list - that sort of thing).

in my experience, the work of building supportive community among people with disabilities has a lot to do with not assuming that everyone does everything the same way and with being flexible and supportive in that way.

[Glenn]

Folks; This also seems to me to be a nice place to visit or hunker down. Over 3-400 acres of lesbian-owned land for 25,000 per two acre plots. http//:alapine.org/

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by Glenn

Folks; This also seems to me to be a nice place to visit or hunker down. Over 3-400 acres of lesbian-owned land for 25,000 per two acre plots. http//:alapine.org/

I think there is a short documentary about them or some type of news coverage. 25,000.00 is still a lot for people today. There seems to be a lot of communities springing up around the US, some all women, some mixed. Long term I will most likely turn Sachita Collective into a land trust so it can continue and provide homes for all types of people.

Actually now that I think about it I did email and make contact with these women right after I bought the farm. We exchanged a few ideas and I asked them how they got started.

For many years there was a woman who published a guide of all the available women's land. She had an ad in the Lesbian Connection.

[Sachita]

This is a very interesting article about how a household of 7 people live together on only 21.00 a day.

http://www.verdant.net/sharedhousing.htm

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by Sachita

This is a very interesting article about how a household of 7 people live together on only 21.00 a day.

http://www.verdant.net/sharedhousing.htm

As you read it you'll see that their mortgage is over 2000.00 a month! Can you imagine in other parts of the country where its cheaper?

I know a couple that was laid off from huge companies (IBM-HP) earning over 100K a year. When they were laid off they could no longer afford the huge mortgages and car payments they had. They were forced to foreclose on their homes. They sat down and came up with a great plan and its working. In fact they are in NC, just south of me. Both couples walked away from their homes. They rented a house in the country with a few acres of land. Nothing fancy. They kept ONE car and a truck. Three of them went to work and one stayed home. The jobs they were able to get were nothing close to what they were use to but they easily paid their overhead and two of them work part time. The rest of the time they car pool each other, grow all of their own food and take some to the market. They bought a big oven and one of them bakes bread and other baked goods bringing in a few hundred a week just from those sales.

No one is killing themselves and they will all tell you that they are happier then they have ever been. They are healthier, more at peace and relationships stronger.

[aishah]

yeah, mortgages in oakland are ridiculous. unfortunately that area is still one of the best places to find other radical organizers, sustainability oriented folks, etc. for shared housing - i have lots of friends who live in community living situations out there, especially disabled folks. one of the reasons i love kansas is because of the low cost of living here. when i first moved out here people were trying to talk me to moving out to the bay area because of how much awesome organizing is happening there, but imho the idea that if you are radical or into sustainability or other social justice issues you should move to the bay/portland/toronto/new york is really damaging - that vision is not sustainable for the future. we need to be community building and organizing everywhere, not just four cities in the u.s. even if it is easier to move to where the building is already happening. that's one of the reasons i love the allied media conference (it's a social justice conference that focuses on a lot of different issues - i do disability justice work there - but they have sustainability tracks as well as community tech tracks and other tracks) - allied media projects is doing in detroit what we need to be doing everywhere - actually bringing these principles into our own communities rather than moving where it's already easy to practice them, if that makes any sense.

/ramble