What every Femme should know...

[Kobi]

I will try and make this as simple as possible.

If you want to build bridges, you build bridges. To build bridges, it takes give and take, it takes adjustments on everyones part, it means being committed to learning new stuff that we might not want to learn. That means if someone tells you (generic you) they feel hostility, do you have the right to tell them they dont? Who is the better judge of what they feel and why they feel it...you or them?

If you dont want someone telling you (generic you) what you as a butch or femme should think and feel, you do not have the right to tell them they are not entitled to what they feel and think. It is a 2 way street. Cant get if you dont give. Well you can but thats how wars start.

If you want to build pseudo bridges i.e. the illusion of bridges without doing the actual work to actually build them, have at it. And when we keep revisiting history over and over again, are we justified in saying over and over this irritates me or that person irritates me cuz they dont agree with me, or why is my passion a problem etc? I dont think so.

I am not advocating people be silent. I was silent and it is making me feel crappy. I am not advocating people not be passionate. Passion is good. Im not even advocating you not be chaffed. Chaff away.

What I am advocating is, if the goal is to be constructive, then post constructively. You can be passionate and still be constructive. If the goal is to educate, you can still educate without making someone feel crappy in the process.

And if someone is telling you (generic you) that something you are doing or saying is making them feel crappy or attacked - stop and listen to them. Maybe you are doing something. Maybe that isnt your intent but that is how they are experiencing you at that moment. Will it fucking kill us to just stop and listen for a change? Might we actually learn something?

I dont want to chaff BullDog or make Corkey feel silenced or make Julie feel she cant post after someone else. I dont. It makes me feel bad that they think this. Its not my intent.

Let me ask this.... and let it stew a bit. When do we stop talking about looking out for our brothers and sisters and actually start doing it? Do we have as much responsibility to look out for Jist as we do to look out for Corkey or BullDog or Julie and anyone else I am bound to chaff today?

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by Kobi

I will try and make this as simple as possible.

If you want to build bridges, you build bridges. To build bridges, it takes give and take, it takes adjustments on everyones part, it means being committed to learning new stuff that we might not want to learn. That means if someone tells you (generic you) they feel hostility, do you have the right to tell them they dont? Who is the better judge of what they feel and why they feel it...you or them?

If you dont want someone telling you (generic you) what you as a butch or femme should think and feel, you do not have the right to tell them they are not entitled to what they feel and think. It is a 2 way street. Cant get if you dont give. Well you can but thats how wars start.

If you want to build pseudo bridges i.e. the illusion of bridges without doing the actual work to actually build them, have at it. And when we keep revisiting history over and over again, are we justified in saying over and over this irritates me or that person irritates me cuz they dont agree with me, or why is my passion a problem etc? I dont think so.

I am not advocating people be silent. I was silent and it is making me feel crappy. I am not advocating people not be passionate. Passion is good. Im not even advocating you not be chaffed. Chaff away.

What I am advocating is, if the goal is to be constructive, then post constructively. You can be passionate and still be constructive. If the goal is to educate, you can still educate without making someone feel crappy in the process.

And if someone is telling you (generic you) that something you are doing or saying is making them feel crappy or attacked - stop and listen to them. Maybe you are doing something. Maybe that isnt your intent but that is how they are experiencing you at that moment. Will it fucking kill us to just stop and listen for a change? Might we actually learn something?

I dont want to chaff BullDog or make Corkey feel silenced or make Julie feel she cant post after someone else. I dont. It makes me feel bad that they think this. Its not my intent.

Let me ask this.... and let it stew a bit. When do we stop talking about looking out for our brothers and sisters and actually start doing it? Do we have as much responsibility to look out for Jist as we do to look out for Corkey or BullDog or Julie and anyone else I am bound to chaff today?

I think we have to be adults and look out for ourselves. If that means being blunt, then that's what it means. I think we have to be aware of our words, that they may turn around and bite us in the rump. Most importantly I think we have to be aware that our words can be offensive.
Do I think it was done deliberately, not in the least. Holding a defensive position for too long can scream victim, whether one is or not. Egging people on is kind of like waving a red towel at a bull, there's gonna be consequences.

[Novelafemme]

"And if someone is telling you (generic you) that something you are doing or saying is making them feel crappy or attacked - stop and listen to them. Maybe you are doing something. Maybe that isnt your intent but that is how they are experiencing you at that moment. Will it fucking kill us to just stop and listen for a change? Might we actually learn something?

I dont want to chaff BullDog or make Corkey feel silenced or make Julie feel she cant post after someone else. I dont. It makes me feel bad that they think this. Its not my intent.

Let me ask this.... and let it stew a bit. When do we stop talking about looking out for our brothers and sisters and actually start doing it? Do we have as much responsibility to look out for Jist as we do to look out for Corkey or BullDog or Julie and anyone else I am bound to chaff today?"



Oh dear...this is getting quite redundant.

Feelings are wonderful and amazing and beneficial EMOTIONS! Behavior is how you actualize your thought process, the physical manifestation of how your brain interprets various stimuli, and ultimately, how you respond. If you interpret every situation emotionally than you are going to exhaust not only yourself but lots of others in trying to get everyone to not only see something from your perspective (which is emotional) but to agree with it as well.

[Scuba]

I didn't appear to ME that JistMe meant harm or was telling others what they should or should not be in life. It was simply an expression of emotion...

This is the writing and poetry thread. For the sake of having a place to expose ourselves through our writing WITHOUT persecution I ask you to PLEASE take this discussion to another thread more suitable for the topic.

Scoobs

[yotlyolqualli]

Wow!

Several people have encouraged me to post my writings here.

I don't think I will.

I write what I feel, how I feel it, when I feel it and why I feel it.

When I write, I don't write for everyone, and my writing will not please everyone, nor will it "fit" everyone.

I wrote a poem about myself entitled "Lissa's song"

It is a very personal, very self promoting song (in so much as it speaks to the content of my soul)

No way in HELL would I feel comfortable posting something here, in the POETRY, WRITING... section, knowing that

A) someone may be offended because I say "I bask in the rays of the sun and dance in the light of her sister, moon"... because obviously, the sun isn't female or male, and neither is the moon.

B) someone would think nothing of taking that "offense" and decimating something as personal as MY own feelings about how I feel. No thanks.

C) if poetry, stories, how people feel about themselves and about someone or "generic" all, can and will be decisively polarizing, why bother?

Can we not see poetry as someone's inner beauty shining through?

Are we so "frightened" of the "male" dominated world that we take offense at someone's feelings that may or may not reflect poorly or richly on themselves or someone else?

Confusing? Yep! Thats the way I felt when I read this thread, confused as HELL!


The dialogue between Kobi and Julie helped, but speaking as someone who often puts my feelings "out there" I could definitely feel WHY the OP felt attacked. Was that the intent? For some, obviously not. For other's... well lets just say that I felt like there were some who wanted to cause chaos, hard feelings, and some who just wanted to stand on a soap box and beat their own chest.

Do we not get enough of that from the "outside" world? Should we not all stand together as a COMMUNITY of beautifully diverse people, regardless of IDs and isms?

Ever heard the phrase, you get more bee's with honey?

"Hey, dude, Jist, please correct your "what EVERY femme should know" title, it may be offensive to some.

OR.. PEOPLE, this is a POETRY, WRITING post.

How about, ASKING the OP what he meant by "EVERY" femme, instead of INSTANTLY believing that he obviously MEANT every femme and so he MUST be SEXIST or what the fuck ever that M word is!

There are so many blasted labels here, that I am tempted to start mentally slapping labels on everyone I meet.

People say that "Jist" or anyone else who takes offense at words, should put their big girl panties on.

Guess what? Quit trying to dress other people while you're standing there NEKKID!

Had YOU put your big girl panties on and ASKED simple questions instead of getting ALL OFFENDED at what was a SWEET POEM, maybe this would have been a much nicer read!

You don't have to be a simpering idiot to meet and keep a good butch


It's patronizing, pandering and least of all, heteronormative--Which is all great if I consent and but none of us did.

The title could have read, 'Here's where I degrade and patronize Femme and perpetuate female-feeble mindedness' and that's cool, I wouldn't have reason to read that thread.

I hope that helps your confusion.

Don't ever speak for me. Ever! I didn't find this POEM any of those things and I can assure you that I am NOT some "female-feeble minded" woman! I didn't feel degraded, I didn't feel patronized and I sure as hell didn't feel that this was in any way "heteronormative". What the hell kind of word is that anyway? Am I "heteronormative" because I want to be married, I want to be a "submissive" wife to a butch woman who can lead the household because that is what I believe to be right for me?? Then I guess along with "femme, lesbian, and homosexual and gay, add THAT label to my lapel as well. No label and no one's thoughts or idea's threaten me nor how I identify, not only on an online forum, but in my life.

In my life I have been degraded (by a woman) I have been raped (by a woman) I have been marginilized (by a woman) and I have been patronized (by a woman). Does that mean all women SUCK? Nope. But by the theory or thought process here, I SHOULD think all women suck, because thus far, that is all I have found. No, instead I realize that women, like any other faction of society, differs, sometimes hugely, and while ALL X chromosonal people are biologically "female" not all of them are bitches, psychotic, sexist, patronizing, degrading, raping people.

Interesting how one comes about understanding that, isn't it?

I will put here, these are MY thoughts, opinions and whatnot. And I LIKED the OP's original post and just because I LIKED it, doesnt mean that I am weak, or that I am a simpering fool, or that I need to be validated by someone else nor does it mean that I am so cowed by the "heteronomrmative" standards that I can't see the forest for the tree's. it means that in that POEM, I saw beauty, I saw love, I saw affection and while it may be idealistic, maybe even overly mushy, I saw someone putting their heart on their sleeve. That's more than most ever say or do.

Whose woods these are, I think I know, his house is in the village though, he will not see me stopping here to watch his woods fill up with snow. My little horse must think it queer..... "Robert Frost"

Discect/analyze/criticize that. He said "queer" he must be homophobic! (SARCASM ALERT!)

Put personal thoughts, idea's and emotions on here to be analyzed, dissected, made fun of, made light of or even looked down on?


No thanks.

[blush]

Usually when someone says "every," it doesn't require a lot of interpretation.

"Heteronormative" is acting in a way that is stereotypical of heterosexual couples.

The op's quote is attributed to Nicholas Sparks, a bastion of heterosexual luv.

Part of femme invisibility is the constant assumption that we act (or are) just like straight women. Some of us relish that role because it fits who we are. Some of us don't. Many of us get cranky when we are yet again expected to fall in line with a quote usurped from the straight community and "applied" to us.

I, personally, have a problem with not giving credit to the author of the quote, but I'm persnickety.

As far as posting your own stuff, you might check out other writing threads and see the comments. It's hard to put your stuff out there. Good luck!

[LadyRieinAL]

No one can read my mind - no more thinking that just because someone doesn't do what I think, they should do it anyway because if they love me they would know what it is that I need them to do, without me telling them what it is that I need.

This femme should know I am my own best friend and I should never think anyone's opinion of how I look, dress, or feel is more important than my own.

I This femme knows it is not the responsibilty of anyone else to make me happy - and it is so wonderful to have a partner who supports me being the happiest, healthiest me I can be and thinks I'm damn cute doing it.

This femme knows she can completely give herself to another and she will always have the right to change her mind. She loves getting lost in another, but there is always a trail of bread crumbs so she can always come back home to self.