only another butch would understand

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Ben-Her

The statements I bolded in blue sound contradictory to me. Is it just me?

The statements in red seem contradictory to me as well.

Also, what would you deem the "positive aspects of masculinity", as you put it? Conversely, what would you consider the positive aspects of femininity to be? Or the negative for that matter? Also you seem to categorize sexism and violence as masculinity, yet you identify as masculine. How does one go about extracting only the positive 'male' or 'masculine' qualities from 'masculinity'? Are females or feminine people never sexist or violent?

What has always and continues to confound me is why masculine/masculine-identified/transmasculine butches, who are female-identified, seem insistent on attributing certain traits/behaviors (you know, the ones we can all be proud of - independence, capability, strength, resourcefulness/handiness, farting prowess, etc) to males/masculinity to begin with. And then I'm told I "can't just be here to get fluffed up and told how manly I am." Well, to that I say, don't fluff me up and tell me how manly I am. ha.

And then the same butch (not picking on you bulldog but since you did it this time... will go on to direct the general 'you' here (which includes me, a male) on how to behave in what I'm hearing you say is (predominantly, if not completely biologically) female space, of which I am unfailingly aware. You said, "You need to realize that when you are in a butch femme community you are in a primarily female queer space and having male identified people in it changes things." I agree. That's why I don't feel I can have it both ways. But I do see quite a lot of butches claiming and embracing masculinity where they like and wanting a lot of praise for it and simultaneously feeling entitled to commit all the sexism and misogyny you can shake a dick at without consequence or at the very least met with a great deal of understanding and forgiveness.

I personally never hear anyone other than female-identified butches talking about this continuum of masculinity that seems to exist somewhere. Creating and perpetuating this type of hierarchy is sexist and misogynist, when anyone does it. I find it especially betraying when females do it to other females, butch and femme alike, especially to women of trans experience who are femme or are female-identified butches and were socialized to be someone's/society's idea of what is 'male' or 'masculine' and are trying to find acceptance and safety in a b-f space as females.

Let me pose a question to the general you - if you're female-identified and you gender behaviors and personality traits, why don't you attribute your best to your female socialization and your female traits/hormones that are inherent within you? (And I'm not talking just compassion and nurturing and those stereotypically female traits here - strength, power, determination, bravery, assertiveness, resourcefulness - you don't think you developed these qualities by living in a female body? And I've not transitioned so I'm not speaking from a place of male privilege here because I do not receive it. I'm speaking as someone who has experienced oppression and discrimination and sexism and misogyny in a female body just like everyone else here at one time or another. In my own sexist mind my best qualities are because of female hormones and socialization. I know these communities are microcosms of a larger society but why bring the larger society's norms into your queer space and perpetuate them? If you can't change patterns of thinking within your little corner of queer space then you're not likely to change the world outside of that space.

Ben-Her I have no idea why you see the parts of my posts that you bolded in red and blue as contradictory. You have lost me there.

You said this: But I do see quite a lot of butches claiming and embracing masculinity where they like and wanting a lot of praise for it and simultaneously feeling entitled to commit all the sexism and misogyny you can shake a dick at without consequence or at the very least met with a great deal of understanding and forgiveness.

You seem to be saying this as if you are disagreeing with me, but I agree with this whole heartedly.

I also agree that my best traits come from my experience being socialized as a female.

I am confused where your disagreements with me are.

[Admin]

Just to be clear:

This space is supportive of female-identified Butches, masculine-identified Butches, Male-identified Butches, Trans Men, Trans Women, Genderqueers, Femmes, and everyone else who falls somewhere along the gender spectrum.

I know that we can incorporate our spaces peacefully and respectfully.

One of the ways that BFP is going to work to help folks feel more visible is to make sure that the "how do you identify" section our our profiles will also include a "preferred pronouns" portion that will be displayed with the users name here in the posts.
Until then, we should all be *asking* one another for the correct pronoun for that person without assuming that it is "he", "she", "hye", "ze" based on how we identify ourselves.

[BullDog]

Thank you!

[Unndunn]

Originally Posted by WicketWWarrick

Realizing that this is a question of personal preference...

We know that within our butch ranks we have female-identified, male-identified, other-identified; those who prefer male pronouns, those who prefer female pronouns, and those who couldn't care less. One word I use frequently with butches is 'bro'. I'm assuming that male-identified would be fine with this, but does this term feel erasing to some? I'd love to hear your collective thoughts on this.

I'm coming late into this thread, but I appreciate you asking this question. I'm a female ID butch and being called bro or anything like it doesn't bother me. I don't care about being referred to as he rather than she. The only thing I don't like is being called one of those "other" pronouns like hy, shy, etc. I know some people love them and that's fine, but not for me.

It also would take quite a bit to make me feel erased or not included. It usually only happens when I'm told that I'm not a butch if I'm female ID, or that I can't be a woman and still be masculine. Other than that I'm fine.

And for the record, I love fixing things and can repair or build just about anything but don't like working on cars. I'm not big on burping or doing anything else like that in front of others if I can avoid it. Table manners, etc matter to me. I am very comfortable around straight men (I have 4 brothers, no sisters) and often feel like a foreigner around straight women.

[evolveme]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Greyson thank you for your post. I am not quite sure where you disagree with me, but we can always further discuss. Having male identified people in a community introduces male privilege on many different levels. It isn't just about what privilege people may or may not receive out in the world at large, it is the effect that is has within a community itself as well. Things are different because there are male identified people within butch femme communities. Female/women identified butches have to fight like hell to be seen or heard, male defaults get used for butch- all of which is ridiculous since most butches do identify as female. The reason we have to fight like hell is because butch gets equated to male and male is more valued.

Bulldog, I recognize that my voice may not be welcome in this thread, and that certainly, there is nothing that I, not being a butch person, can solely understand. But I am hearing what sounds like some older Second Wave feminisms being utilized to dislodge a, perhaps, mythic misogyny in an on-line community.

Don't misread me. I hear you when you say that male has too often been a default for butch in these spaces. I believe that has more often been the fault/responsibility of the butches who actually identified as female and their partners. A need was felt to differentiate between the pairs. It helped to show who was masculine and who was feminine. Everyone enjoyed it. It got carried away. As the space became more accepting of transpeople and transgendered folks, the lines became blurred, and female identified butches appeared to have been swept under the tide. The gender wars seemed to have arrived. (I believe it's up to everyone to put those wars behind us. It was no one person's fault.)

But, Bulldog, it seems that (by your posts) you might be failing to recognize what a male identified person's actual, REAL time experience is like. Even a transman's. For someone who is female bodied but male id'd, please show me the privilege? Who, except his partner and close friends are even showing him understanding? And for the transman, what of the incredible hurdle of transphobia and bullshit he had to face to get to where he is now?

And can we really experience gender privilege in an online space? Given the total lack of acceptance these folks are facing in the day to day, it seems like another voice saying: You're just a guest here, you know. Watch your "male privilege."

[Gryph]

Originally Posted by Tommi

Nodding to the BG WicketWWarrick

and to Metro, who likes what he sees..


So, Butch's let's see in ten words or less.

1. What age were you when you first said "I'm butch" ?

2. To whom, yourself included?

I was called a butch in junior high school, I didn't acknowledge it in myself until I was in my early 30's. After I had left an abusive marriage(yes to a bio-male) of 11years.
I still wasn't fully comfortable with being quite as male ID as I am even after my Two-Spirit vision, as I have been since my girl came into my life. She is the one who has brought out the male that I was hiding for so many years.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by evolveme

Bulldog, I recognize that my voice may not be welcome in this thread, and that certainly, there is nothing that I, not being a butch person, can solely understand. But I am hearing what sounds like some older Second Wave feminisms being utilized to dislodge a, perhaps, mythic misogyny in an on-line community.

Don't misread me. I hear you when you say that male has too often been a default for butch in these spaces. I believe that has more often been the fault/responsibility of the butches who actually identified as female and their partners. A need was felt to differentiate between the pairs. It helped to show who was masculine and who was feminine. Everyone enjoyed it. It got carried away. As the space became more accepting of transpeople and transgendered folks, the lines became blurred, and female identified butches appeared to have been swept under the tide. The gender wars seemed to have arrived. (I believe it's up to everyone to put those wars behind us. It was no one person's fault.)

But, Bulldog, it seems that (by your posts) you might be failing to recognize what a male identified person's actual, REAL time experience is like. Even a transman's. For someone who is female bodied but male id'd, please show me the privilege? Who, except his partner and close friends are even showing him understanding? And for the transman, what of the incredible hurdle of transphobia and bullshit he had to face to get to where he is now?

And can we really experience gender privilege in an online space? Given the total lack of acceptance these folks are facing in the day to day, it seems like another voice saying: You're just a guest here, you know. Watch your "male privilege."

Older Second Wave feminisms- wow I certainly disagree with you there.

Mythic misogyny- wow once again. don't mean to be flippant, I just can't believe you would say that.

Blaming female identified butches and their partners for male language becoming the default? Wow once again. None of the butches I know real time use these male defaults and we have no problem distinguishing who are the butches and who are the femmes. As to the online history I certainly have a completely different take on things than you do.

[apretty]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Blaming female identified butches and their partners for male language becoming the default?

hey Bulldog, i gave this some thought too and i realize that we all (yes, including F -identified butches) have to take some responsibility here for either not speaking up, personally or not questioning the immense use of *HE* when/while it was happening. i think that's actually pretty fair--we *all* need to take some ownership of what it means when we male-by-default or when we don't carve a space for ourselves in the community. either way, all of us owning it is a good thing, to me, it's a great starting (over?) point.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by apretty

hey Bulldog, i gave this some thought too and i realize that we all (yes, including F -identified butches) have to take some responsibility here for either not speaking up, personally or not questioning the immense use of *HE* when/while it was happening. i think that's actually pretty fair--we *all* need to take some ownership of what it means when we male-by-default or when we don't carve a space for ourselves in the community. either way, all of us owning it is a good thing, to me, it's a great starting (over?) point.

I agree we all need to speak up. That is what I am doing now and I, along with other butches like Toughy, have a very long history for speaking up about this very topic. We have worked tirelessly against the invisibility of women and female identified butches. And we have gotten a lot of shit for it along with some support. But yes, I whole heartedly agree with you. Thank you for your post.

[SuperFemme]

Isn't "Male Privilege" akin to "White Privilege" in that because of gender (real or perceived) certain privileges are given even though not strived for?

[Dreams]

Originally Posted by evolveme

Bulldog, I recognize that my voice may not be welcome in this thread, and that certainly, there is nothing that I, not being a butch person, can solely understand. But I am hearing what sounds like some older Second Wave feminisms being utilized to dislodge a, perhaps, mythic misogyny in an on-line community.

Don't misread me. I hear you when you say that male has too often been a default for butch in these spaces. I believe that has more often been the fault/responsibility of the butches who actually identified as female and their partners. A need was felt to differentiate between the pairs. It helped to show who was masculine and who was feminine. Everyone enjoyed it. It got carried away. As the space became more accepting of transpeople and transgendered folks, the lines became blurred, and female identified butches appeared to have been swept under the tide. The gender wars seemed to have arrived. (I believe it's up to everyone to put those wars behind us. It was no one person's fault.)

But, Bulldog, it seems that (by your posts) you might be failing to recognize what a male identified person's actual, REAL time experience is like. Even a transman's. For someone who is female bodied but male id'd, please show me the privilege? Who, except his partner and close friends are even showing him understanding? And for the transman, what of the incredible hurdle of transphobia and bullshit he had to face to get to where he is now?

And can we really experience gender privilege in an online space? Given the total lack of acceptance these folks are facing in the day to day, it seems like another voice saying: You're just a guest here, you know. Watch your "male privilege."

excellent post!!

[evolveme]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Older Second Wave feminisms- wow I certainly disagree with you there.

Mythic misogyny- wow once again. don't mean to be flippant, I just can't believe you would say that.

Blaming female identified butches and their partners for male language becoming the default? Wow once again. None of the butches I know real time use these male defaults and we have no problem distinguishing who are the butches and who are the femmes. As to the online history I certainly have a completely different take on things than you do.

I called it mythic, not because misogyny hasn't happened in our online spaces, but because yesterday it felt to me that you were separating female id'd folks from the male id'd ones in the Who is Just a Bit More Responsible for Examining Their Masculinity. It sounded like transmasculine guys and transmen might be more responsible for misogyny in these spaces. That isn't what I've seen. Hell, I've watched some femmes say some pretty righteous things over the years. And don't misinterpret my investment here. I haven't any. I love every kind of butch there is - equally. I just care that we don't isolate.

And when I first started reading butch/femme spaces, practically *everyone* was he or hy/she-ing. Tell me, who is responsible, if not... all of us?

[evolveme]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Isn't "Male Privilege" akin to "White Privilege" in that because of gender (real or perceived) certain privileges are given even though not strived for?

That's the thing, though, honey.

Show me the privilege.

What privilege are we automatically granting to our male id'd folks and transmen here that nobody else has? The privilege to say righteous shit and get away with it? I haven't seen that.

Am I blind?

[SuperFemme]

I am not a carrier of male privilege, but I'd love to hear from others if they feel it is somethings butches/trans people incur.


The Male Privilege Checklist
1. My odds of being hired for a job, when competing against female applicants, are probably skewed in my favor. The more prestigious the job, the larger the odds are skewed.
2. I can be confident that my co-workers won’t think I got my job because of my sex - even though that might be true. (More).
3. If I am never promoted, it’s not because of my sex.
4. If I fail in my job or career, I can feel sure this won’t be seen as a black mark against my entire sex’s capabilities.
5. I am far less likely to face sexual harassment at work than my female co-workers are. (More).
6. If I do the same task as a woman, and if the measurement is at all subjective, chances are people will think I did a better job.
7. If I’m a teen or adult, and if I can stay out of prison, my odds of being raped are relatively low. (More).
8. On average, I am taught to fear walking alone after dark in average public spaces much less than my female counterparts are.
9. If I choose not to have children, my masculinity will not be called into question.
10. If I have children but do not provide primary care for them, my masculinity will not be called into question.
11. If I have children and provide primary care for them, I’ll be praised for extraordinary parenting if I’m even marginally competent. (More).
12. If I have children and a career, no one will think I’m selfish for not staying at home.
13. If I seek political office, my relationship with my children, or who I hire to take care of them, will probably not be scrutinized by the press.
14. My elected representatives are mostly people of my own sex. The more prestigious and powerful the elected position, the more this is true.
15. When I ask to see “the person in charge,” odds are I will face a person of my own sex. The higher-up in the organization the person is, the surer I can be.
16. As a child, chances are I was encouraged to be more active and outgoing than my sisters. (More).
17. As a child, I could choose from an almost infinite variety of children’s media featuring positive, active, non-stereotyped heroes of my own sex. I never had to look for it; male protagonists were (and are) the default.
18. As a child, chances are I got more teacher attention than girls who raised their hands just as often. (More).
19. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether or not it has sexist overtones.
20. I can turn on the television or glance at the front page of the newspaper and see people of my own sex widely represented, every day, without exception.
21. If I’m careless with my financial affairs it won’t be attributed to my sex.
22. If I’m careless with my driving it won’t be attributed to my sex.
23. I can speak in public to a large group without putting my sex on trial.
24. Even if I sleep with a lot of women, there is no chance that I will be seriously labeled a “slut,” nor is there any male counterpart to “slut-bashing.” (More).
25. I do not have to worry about the message my wardrobe sends about my sexual availability or my gender conformity. (More).
26. My clothing is typically less expensive and better-constructed than women’s clothing for the same social status. While I have fewer options, my clothes will probably fit better than a woman’s without tailoring. (More).
27. The grooming regimen expected of me is relatively cheap and consumes little time. (More).
28. If I buy a new car, chances are I’ll be offered a better price than a woman buying the same car. (More).
29. If I’m not conventionally attractive, the disadvantages are relatively small and easy to ignore.
30. I can be loud with no fear of being called a shrew. I can be aggressive with no fear of being called a bitch.
31. I can ask for legal protection from violence that happens mostly to men without being seen as a selfish special interest, since that kind of violence is called “crime” and is a general social concern. (Violence that happens mostly to women is usually called “domestic violence” or “acquaintance rape,” and is seen as a special interest issue.)
32. I can be confident that the ordinary language of day-to-day existence will always include my sex. “All men are created equal,” mailman, chairman, freshman, he.
33. My ability to make important decisions and my capability in general will never be questioned depending on what time of the month it is.
34. I will never be expected to change my name upon marriage or questioned if I don’t change my name.
35. The decision to hire me will never be based on assumptions about whether or not I might choose to have a family sometime soon.
36. Every major religion in the world is led primarily by people of my own sex. Even God, in most major religions, is pictured as male.
37. Most major religions argue that I should be the head of my household, while my wife and children should be subservient to me.
38. If I have a wife or live-in girlfriend, chances are we’ll divide up household chores so that she does most of the labor, and in particular the most repetitive and unrewarding tasks. (More).
39. If I have children with a wife or girlfriend, chances are she’ll do most of the childrearing, and in particular the most dirty, repetitive and unrewarding parts of childrearing.
40. If I have children with a wife or girlfriend, and it turns out that one of us needs to make career sacrifices to raise the kids, chances are we’ll both assume the career sacrificed should be hers.
41. Magazines, billboards, television, movies, pornography, and virtually all of media is filled with images of scantily-clad women intended to appeal to me sexually. Such images of men exist, but are rarer.
42. In general, I am under much less pressure to be thin than my female counterparts are. (More). If I am fat, I probably suffer fewer social and economic consequences for being fat than fat women do. (More).
43. If I am heterosexual, it’s incredibly unlikely that I’ll ever be beaten up by a spouse or lover. (More).
44. Complete strangers generally do not walk up to me on the street and tell me to “smile.” (More: 1 2).
45. On average, I am not interrupted by women as often as women are interrupted by men.
46. I have the privilege of being unaware of my male privilege.

[Medusa]

(gently)

I think one of the ways that Male privilege might play out in an online forum is that many (most?) men on this site will not have to constantly correct people on their preferred pronoun.

(and this is, again, an example of a privilege that is inherited and not asked for)

edited to add: recognizing also that most Femmes have this identity privlege as well.

[BullDog]

Following up on Medusa's example, time and time again I have seen people online state that when they are not sure what pronoun to use they use the male pronoun to make sure they don't offend anyone. It is considered safer- less offensive. I have read this multiple times over the years and some from very well meaning people that I really liked and respected.

It is not the honest mistake that is the problem. Male is clearly valued over female out in the world- our butch femme online communities have been no different.

I welcome the fresh start here on this website.

[Toughy]

<snip> I believe that has more often been the fault/responsibility of the butches who actually identified as female and their partners. <snip>

really???????????

sorry.......ain't buying or drinking that koolaid.........

[Medusa]

Let me just give a personal narrative here:

(while recognizing that my Femme voice might be intrusive on this conversation)


I just want to say that I *do* resonate with parts of what e said. While I dont want to go into the whole "who did it more to whom" thing, I DO want to recognize that I , as a Femme, have INDEED not been as intentionally watchful as I should have been around my *own* involvment with marginalizing women-identified Butches.

A good example:

When I first logged on to the "other" site, I had NEVER heard anothe Butch referred to as a "he" or a "hye" or a "sir" on any level (outside of the "oh, Im sorry I thought you were a man" conversations when someone would mistake the woman I was dating for a man)
I had mostly been around other Butches in clubs, at rallies, or had long time lesbo friends. We all referred to each other as "she".

When I came to the "other" site, I noticed immediately that there were Butches who wanted to be referred to as "he, hye, sir", etc. At the time, it felt new and wonderful, a way for me as a Femme to show HONOR and RESPECT to that part of my Butch heros who exuded a way of being that words would not describe. But it felt good, it feel like fucking every established context that I had ever known. It felt empowering as a Femme because it felt like I was finally able to show just how much I "got it".

Fast forward a month or two and I met Jack. Jack insisted from the very beginning, "Im a woman, don't call me he." I respected that. (because honestly? STILL hot.)

So now fast forward about 8 years and Jack and I are now partnered and we realize one day after some bullshit on the other site that I have now defaulted to calling my parter a "he" when discussing her in conversations with other BF people. That Jack has stopped twitching when referred to as "he" by random folks online. That the whole thing just kinda felt normal.
There was no feeling of "oh god we slid into hell" by taking up the "he", it just happened because I stopped correcting people, Jack stopped correcting people, and I think in some way, I let my fetishization of the masculine take over. Im not at ALL saying that this is what this means for everyone, but I think it might have been a tiny part of it for me. I own that with 100% responsibility.

After a bit, Jack and I both made a conscious choice to have a discussion about how she identifies and wants to be honored. When she said to me, "I am a woman. I am a she. I am a Butch Woman", that was enough for me to do a 180 on my laziness (personal experience) around gender pronouns.
I have worked steadily and thoughtfully to NEVER refer to my partner as a "he" again because its how SHE wants to be seen.
This doesnt mean that I dont honor those folks who identify as masculine, I certainly do! I honor them and respect their path just as much.

My own culpability in the erasure of not just female-identified Butches, but ....for fuck's sake...MY PARTNER...to some degree, speaks to my own...I struggle for words here....my own idealization of gender.
My own immersion in the binary.
My own static electricity with what makes ME most comfortable.

Maybe it was just easier for me as a Femme on a site where the overwhelming majority of folks identified as "he" to talk about my partner. Maybe it felt more inclusive. Maybe it felt less "abnormal".

The only thing I know is that I wanted to reverse my process because my partner's right to exist, not just in her body, but as a loved being with FULL understanding and honor from me, as the person who loves her, is WAY more important than me feeling comfortable in a cyberworld.

This is all bockety and jangly but I hope people can see that I am owning my own small part in the erasure. I know that this issue isnt "all about me" but I want to be clear that I do NOT think it would be healthy of us as a community to create yet another binary where the masculine-identified folks or Transmen are 100% responsible for the erasure of female-identified Butches.
I do think that there is work to be done around the inherent hierarchies that are created but I think we can all work together to do that work.

With grace. With respect. With honor.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Medusa

Let me just give a personal narrative here:

(while recognizing that my Femme voice might be intrusive on this conversation)


I just want to say that I *do* resonate with parts of what e said. While I dont want to go into the whole "who did it more to whom" thing, I DO want to recognize that I , as a Femme, have INDEED not been as intentionally watchful as I should have been around my *own* involvment with marginalizing women-identified Butches.

A good example:

When I first logged on to the "other" site, I had NEVER heard anothe Butch referred to as a "he" or a "hye" or a "sir" on any level (outside of the "oh, Im sorry I thought you were a man" conversations when someone would mistake the woman I was dating for a man)
I had mostly been around other Butches in clubs, at rallies, or had long time lesbo friends. We all referred to each other as "she".

When I came to the "other" site, I noticed immediately that there were Butches who wanted to be referred to as "he, hye, sir", etc. At the time, it felt new and wonderful, a way for me as a Femme to show HONOR and RESPECT to that part of my Butch heros who exuded a way of being that words would not describe. But it felt good, it feel like fucking every established context that I had ever known. It felt empowering as a Femme because it felt like I was finally able to show just how much I "got it".

Fast forward a month or two and I met Jack. Jack insisted from the very beginning, "Im a woman, don't call me he." I respected that. (because honestly? STILL hot.)

So now fast forward about 8 years and Jack and I are now partnered and we realize one day after some bullshit on the other site that I have now defaulted to calling my parter a "he" when discussing her in conversations with other BF people. That Jack has stopped twitching when referred to as "he" by random folks online. That the whole thing just kinda felt normal.
There was no feeling of "oh god we slid into hell" by taking up the "he", it just happened because I stopped correcting people, Jack stopped correcting people, and I think in some way, I let my fetishization of the masculine take over. Im not at ALL saying that this is what this means for everyone, but I think it might have been a tiny part of it for me. I own that with 100% responsibility.

After a bit, Jack and I both made a conscious choice to have a discussion about how she identifies and wants to be honored. When she said to me, "I am a woman. I am a she. I am a Butch Woman", that was enough for me to do a 180 on my laziness (personal experience) around gender pronouns.
I have worked steadily and thoughtfully to NEVER refer to my partner as a "he" again because its how SHE wants to be seen.
This doesnt mean that I dont honor those folks who identify as masculine, I certainly do! I honor them and respect their path just as much.

My own culpability in the erasure of not just female-identified Butches, but ....for fuck's sake...MY PARTNER...to some degree, speaks to my own...I struggle for words here....my own idealization of gender.
My own immersion in the binary.
My own static electricity with what makes ME most comfortable.

Maybe it was just easier for me as a Femme on a site where the overwhelming majority of folks identified as "he" to talk about my partner. Maybe it felt more inclusive. Maybe it felt less "abnormal".

The only thing I know is that I wanted to reverse my process because my partner's right to exist, not just in her body, but as a loved being with FULL understanding and honor from me, as the person who loves her, is WAY more important than me feeling comfortable in a cyberworld.

This is all bockety and jangly but I hope people can see that I am owning my own small part in the erasure. I know that this issue isnt "all about me" but I want to be clear that I do NOT think it would be healthy of us as a community to create yet another binary where the masculine-identified folks or Transmen are 100% responsible for the erasure of female-identified Butches.
I do think that there is work to be done around the inherent hierarchies that are created but I think we can all work together to do that work.

With grace. With respect. With honor.

THIS is a great post Medusa. I had been guilty of this myself, until I realized I was doing it.

[Medusa]

(and I just wanted to clarify that I just re-read my post and wanted to say that when I write something like "calling my partner 'a "he"' that I am NOT intending to "other" anyone who identifies as "he"...just trying to illustrate a compartmentalization from my own perspective)

with respect,
a