It's Time to Boycott Arizona

[apretty]

in addition to what Firie has posted, i'd like to remind everyone that we have the moral obligation to disobey unjust laws.

additionally, "everything Hitler did in Germany was legal" -MLK, Jr.

[suebee]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

Yes, you can take your papers with you everywhere and be stopped for them all the time. But what if it were you and every time you left the house you had to get your papers checked...sounds like North Korea or East Germany (the DDR).

Apocalipstic, I have to take my papers with me every time I leave the house. My community is made of of two towns, divided by the international border between the States and Canada. I have an I.D. card issued by U.S Homeland Security that I carry with me all the time. It's just something you get used to, like having your driver's licence or bus pass with you when you leave the house.

My post was an FYI - maybe it will help someone - I don't know. The problem of course is profiling. And that's just more racist shit. It's unrealistic for ANYONE to think that this law can be be applied WITHOUT profiling, it's probably a law that will be found illegal in and of itself (unreasonable search and seizure), and it is most certainly the backlash of the privileged majority feeling that the status quo is in danger.

I hesitate to say this, because I don't want it to be taken in the wrong way, but I think the time has come where the right of the people to "govern themselves" in the States has come around to bite the people in the ass. Although there is equality entrenched in the U.S. constitution, it's never become a reality in real life, and the privileged few have found a myriad of ways to turn their power against those who they consider a minority or undesirable. Equality is only for those who can afford it. I doubt the founding fathers could have imagined how their principles would be misused in the 21st century.

Respectfully,

Sue

[MsDemeanor]

Originally Posted by BornBronson

God knows that Mr.Obama isn't doing much to solve it

Gee, Obama's been in office a little over a year. He's had to deal with pesky little things like economic meltdown and two wars.

McCain, meanwhile, has been Arizona's elected representative in Washington for 28 years. This should be at the very top of his priority list, yet after 28 years, it's still a problem. Why point the blame at the new kid on the block instead of at the guy who's been around and representing that very state for almost 3 decades?

Originally Posted by BornBronson

God knows that Mr.Obama isn't doing much to solve it,well,he might if it gets him another 4 years in office.Actually,that may be what he's planning now.Oh,to have the latino vote,good call Mr.Obama.

It's not Obama trying to gain minority votes that pushed this up the priority list. The Republicans did this. The AZ legislature started it and several other states and lots of big mouths on Faux Newz are pushing it along. If Obama gains latino support from this, it'll be because of what the Republicans are doing.

By the way, why is a bad thing when liberals court minority voters, but not when conservatives court those voters? It's politics and public elections - it's ALL about courting votes. That's what elections are, and I wish that people would quit talking about it like it's wrong.

[apretty]

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

By the way, why is a bad thing when liberals court minority voters, but not when conservatives court those voters? It's politics and public elections - it's ALL about courting votes. That's what elections are, and I wish that people would quit talking about it like it's wrong.

thanks for mentioning this (as well as the rest of your post). i also don't get the qualifier, 'minority' to define a voter. like, as if their vote is somehow less desirable.

[firie]

Originally Posted by apretty

in addition to what Firie has posted, i'd like to remind everyone that we have the moral obligation to disobey unjust laws.

additionally, "everything Hitler did in Germany was legal" -MLK, Jr.

Fucking a, hell yeah we do! Particularly because they are often put in place by really super duper rich people looking to protect their property and interests.

Great quote by the way, and absolutely on point.

And what always gets me is that immigration "issues" and "problems" are always spawned by the media and their primary funders--our government and corporate interests, and the camera zooms in on what is black and brown, but those corporate interests save billions of dollars in not paying workers (immigrant workers) legal wages or insurance for that matter (oh wait, but in America we're supposed to follow the law!). Think of all the CEOs who should be, yes, I'll say it, rotting in jail for breaking the law (as well as for being able to own four homes and a private jet, and sleep all sorts of cushy, and all off the backs of immigrants--their sweat, lost limbs, and, yeah, deaths). Those interests, the ones the rich keep so dearly protected, are even further strengthened when, and you can check the historical patterns just by doing a quick google, we get a democratic congress or ahem president and there is buzz/stir/a few goosebumps about maybe one of those camps--the president or congress-- looking at amnesty again. And so whenever amnesty is even mildly, so very quietly whispered, we have a "real war" at the border and make all the apathetic, fearful white people in this country scared again about the "immigrants."

The real war here, for me, however, is the human rights violations that are occurring every living second of this day, the racism behind immigration and what being "illegal" really means.

Why aren't the cops also arresting all sorts of people for hiring "illegal" labor? Why aren't those folks going to jail for abusing people, say like in the construction industry, there is no medical comp for an immigrant. He just loses his arm, or leg, and his family doesn't get to eat. The CEO just fills the spot and carries on with his fucking golf game. We, the US, have been breaking all sorts of international human rights violations--breaking international law (but we're all supposed to follow the law!) for as long as the US has been here and has been choking the ever loving shit out of Mexico, since well before Mexican Independence.

Sorry, I have a specific rant here with respect to Mexico and US relations, because it's a bunch of mad fuckery, and I can't help myself. I am not denying that we are on a sociopathic hunt for all immigrants of black and brown skin, but in Texas, immigration "issues" or "problems" are always Mexican.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by firie

Fucking a, hell yeah we do! Particularly because they are often put in place by really super duper rich people looking to protect their property and interests.

Great quote by the way, and absolutely on point.

And what always gets me is that immigration "issues" and "problems" are always spawned by the media and their primary funders--our government and corporate interests, and the camera zooms in on what is black and brown, but those corporate interests save billions of dollars in not paying workers (immigrant workers) legal wages or insurance for that matter (oh wait, but in America we're supposed to follow the law!). Think of all the CEOs who should be, yes, I'll say it, rotting in jail for breaking the law (as well as for being able to own four homes and a private jet, and sleep all sorts of cushy, and all off the backs of immigrants--their sweat, lost limbs, and, yeah, deaths). Those interests, the ones the rich keep so dearly protected, are even further strengthened when, and you can check the historical patterns just by doing a quick google, we get a democratic congress or ahem president and there is buzz/stir/a few goosebumps about maybe one of those camps--the president or congress-- looking at amnesty again. And so whenever amnesty is even mildly, so very quietly whispered, we have a "real war" at the border and make all the apathetic, fearful white people in this country scared again about the "immigrants."

The real war here, for me, however, is the human rights violations that are occurring every living second of this day, the racism behind immigration and what being "illegal" really means.

Why aren't the cops also arresting all sorts of people for hiring "illegal" labor? Why aren't those folks going to jail for abusing people, say like in the construction industry, there is no medical comp for an immigrant. He just loses his arm, or leg, and his family doesn't get to eat. The CEO just fills the spot and carries on with his fucking golf game. We, the US, have been breaking all sorts of international human rights violations--breaking international law (but we're all supposed to follow the law!) for as long as the US has been here and has been choking the ever loving shit out of Mexico, since well before Mexican Independence.

Sorry, I have a specific rant here with respect to Mexico and US relations, because it's a bunch of mad fuckery, and I can't help myself. I am not denying that we are on a sociopathic hunt for all immigrants of black and brown skin, but in Texas, immigration "issues" or "problems" are always Mexican.

Hence why it's important to *me* it feels like a bounty has been put on my people and they are scared, and don't fucking anyone (yes I know you will) come in here and sell me the shit that they are not...


Also....... This is not just this whole *brown* people issue, it's a *HUMAN* issue, ffs they are people, not vermin and to portray them as such...is so ugly---This is just so so ugly..... and sad.

[apretty]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Hence why it's important to *me* it feels like a bounty has been put on my people and they are scared, and don't fucking anyone (yes I know you will) come in here and sell me the shit that they are not...


Also....... This is not just this whole *brown* people issue, it's a *HUMAN* issue, ffs they are people, not vermin and to portray them as such...is so ugly---This is just so so ugly..... and sad.

it's absolutely a 'human' issue-- racism, bigotry, prejudices erode our society, despite who the TARGET is.

[PapaC]

I really do.
I mean... I REALLY REALLY do.
I can still hear my mom say

"você tem que ter seus documentos em ordem!"

she was very particular about that kind of paperwork, and I'm very grateful for that.

But I never thought in a million years that her prudence and lessons would be needed for the level of grief I have in North American border crossings. So yes, I understand if you're close to the border, have your papers if you plan to cross...

but on your person? Every time?

Now, just suppose SB 1070 was in BC. I like open water swimming. you realize if SB1070 existed literally in my backyard, I could be stopped and harassed because I don't happen to have my SIN or my DL tattooed somewhere on my ass.


I'm wearing a pair of shorts right now with no pockets. I have to walk to the mailbox to get my mail. Are you telling me I should take my ID with me if I want to go for a 10 minutes walk?

or what if I just plainly forget my ID/wallet but I'm on a bus somewhere in Victoria? I paid with a ticket, I have my house keys, I might even have a $20 bill on me.

But if SB1070 existed up here, I'd be nervous as fuck.

Two years ago, I paid for a friend of mine on Nova Scotia to get his birth certificate (it was -- ha ha, a birthday gift actually, I'm a fan of practical gifts). Both him and his boyfriend don't update their IDs. I almost find it weird that 'regular' Canadians (people born in Canada, not naturalized like me) don't keep up to date passports.

It's been ingrained in my head to have my papers in ordered... (like my momma taught me). But honestly, I'm a little jealous at my friend's lack of interest... (some might say lack of responsibility)..

but, I also see it as a type of privilege that I've *never* felt... the privilege of being free of worrying of harassment of questioning of who I am, and if...

I 'actually' belong in the country of which I'm citizen.

I am racially profiled at borders... Wanna know what's saved my ass each and every time?

I sound Torontonian. Not Portuguese.

So, while I believe in the prudence of it, cybersuebee, I also see the bullshit behind it. Knowing that my parents lived in a fascist country prior to coming to Canada in 1974, I understand now where the fear was instilled from. And it ain't pretty.

[Toughy]

I don't have the all the links, but you can start with this guy......Kris Kobach ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kris_Kobach ) then follow up with FAIR (mentioned above) and The Pioneer Fund and guess who .......the John Birch Society.

The fun thing about Kobach is he wrote the AZ law and a similiar law in OK that was tossed out and declared unconstitutional by federal courts. The AZ is unconstitutional based on the 14 amendment.

Another fun thing is the AZ law requires police officers be trained in how to implement the new law and guess who that rat bastard Arpaio is going to use to train his officers at 300 bucks an hour.

There is also another little clause in that law that allows citizens of AZ to file suit against any law enforcement agency they think is not enforcing the law. The law is apparently set up so Kobach can represent either side in the suit.....guess he can't decide which is more important: racism or money...

reading the law and doing some research is kinda interesting sometimes......

[Toughy]

How about the sheriff in Pima Country....Tucson and a whole bunch of the AZ/Mexico border..............

Pima County (according to Sheriff Dupnik) has the highest rate of detaining and turning over to ICE undocumented folks using the laws already on the books. He pointed that the new law requires police to arrest and detain folks in local/county/state jails/detention facilities. This will cost AZ taxpayers a whole bunch o money......before this law was passed, if you found an undocumented person, you called ICE and they came and got them.........no cost to AZ....it's a federal cost.

Sheriff Dupnik says the law is unconstitutional and he will not enforce it. The laws on the books now work just fine.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by BornBronson

I won't be boycotting them.Things got so bad,specially near the borders that something had to be done.Gov.Brewer did what she thought was necessary in order to gain attention to this serious immigration problem,because it is a huge problem in this county.God knows that Mr.Obama isn't doing much to solve it,well,he might if it gets him another 4 years in office.Actually,that may be what he's planning now.Oh,to have the latino vote,good call Mr.Obama.

We as Americans have to go by the law,what is so wrong with wanting people to go by the law?.Yes,there will be a few racist assholes out there,but you can't say the every law officer in Arizona now is a racist cop because he or she is pulling over those they suspect are in this country illegally,they are just doing their jobs,right?,right.

I have Mexican blood running through my veins.I have black hair and brown eyes and skin.If I get pulled over in Arizona someday because of that,trust me,I will have my camera rolling and I will be taking names and badge numbers.The lawyers will love me.But I have this gut instinct that they'll be having fun regardless if that day ever comes.

But I do understand why the good state of Arizona was 'forced' into this law.

This is just how I feel and I know not everyone will feel the same way,so be it.

Problem is the Gov, usurped the federal mandate. That is against the 14th amendment. She broke federal law in signing Az's racist law.
The rest of your post has been answered by others.

[key]

Originally Posted by BornBronson

God knows that Mr.Obama isn't .........,good call Mr.Obama.

.

While "Mr. Obama" is a "Mister", he is actually much more than just a "Mr."

"Mr. Obama" is actually "President Obama" It is a title that only 43 other humans on earth have held. It is a pretty big damn title that has been and continues to be earned and should be respected.

By calling President Obama "Mr. Obama" it feels to me as a show of your disdain and disrespect for him, the man and for the office and title that he holds.

Just had to say something.

Carry on.

[Diva]

Say what You will about Texas.....but there are plans for the Austin City Council ~ I know, it's just Austin ~ to Boycott Arizona at their next meeting in a couple of weeks.

Austin will take any business with Arizona elsewhere.

Evidently, there are several other cities around the nation who are doing the same thing.

[Jess]

I may have missed it but I have yet to see any offer here of what exactly to boycott.

Here's a start:

http://padresunidos.org/node/515

Boycotting something that just has the name Arizona in it seems to be what a lot of folks are doing, hence the earlier comment about Arizona Tea.

Hope this helps... please note U-Haul is based in AZ. Heh. There goes the ole dyke first date thang.

[key]

Thanks Jess for that link.

I find it helpful to make a list of Arizona based companies I might possibly use without even realizing it.

Go Daddy

PetSmart

US Airways

Mesa Airlines

Freedom Airlines

Dial Corporation (read your labels they are everywhere)

Checker Auto Parts, Schucks Auto Supply, Kragen Auto Parts, Murray's Discount Auto Stores (All part of CSK Auto based in Phoenix)

Best Western

and finally and most sadly...

Cold Stone Creamery

And it is also helpful and reinforcing to me to go ahead and call or email them to let them know you are taking your business elsewhere.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by BornBronson

I won't be boycotting them.Things got so bad,specially near the borders that something had to be done.Gov.Brewer did what she thought was necessary in order to gain attention to this serious immigration problem,because it is a huge problem in this county.God knows that Mr.Obama isn't doing much to solve it,well,he might if it gets him another 4 years in office.Actually,that may be what he's planning now.Oh,to have the latino vote,good call Mr.Obama.

We as Americans have to go by the law,what is so wrong with wanting people to go by the law?.Yes,there will be a few racist assholes out there,but you can't say the every law officer in Arizona now is a racist cop because he or she is pulling over those they suspect are in this country illegally,they are just doing their jobs,right?,right.

I have Mexican blood running through my veins.I have black hair and brown eyes and skin.If I get pulled over in Arizona someday because of that,trust me,I will have my camera rolling and I will be taking names and badge numbers.The lawyers will love me.But I have this gut instinct that they'll be having fun regardless if that day ever comes.

But I do understand why the good state of Arizona was 'forced' into this law.

This is just how I feel and I know not everyone will feel the same way,so be it.

I'm far less sanguine about this law than you are. I'm far less sanguine about racial profiling than you are. I'll tell you why.

When I was 15 I was getting ready to do my paper route. My routine was this:

Fold the papers, load them in a bag, bring the bags to the front porch and then go to the backyard and get my bike, bring that around to the front porch, load the bags on the bike, put my shoulder bags on and then leave. This had been my routine for three or four years at this point. One cold December morning, a couple of weeks before Christmas, I was just finishing up that very last bit when one of Sacramento's Finest drove by and stopped at the stop sign (we lived on a corner lot). He saw a black kid in a neighborhood that was 99% white (there were three black families within about a square mile) and pops his light on me. He then gets out of his vehicle, tells me to approach the car slowly. I get to the edge of the lawn and notice he has his gun out and trained on me. He asked me "what are you doing in this neighborhood". I told him I lived here. He then said, "right. What are you doing out so early." I told him I was getting ready to deliver my papers. Now, this is important. I have bags on my shoulders with reflective material that spelled out 'Sacramento Bee'. There's a bike, with similar bags on the rack. He then asked if I had any idea. I said I was 15. He said "I didn't ask your age, I asked for your ID". I told him I had a bus pass, a student ID and a library card, all of which were upstairs. He asked if I had a key. I said I did. He asked to see it. I VERY SLOWLY pulled it out of my pocket. He then asked, "Does it fit THAT door?" At this point, I got pissed (which just shows how smart I wasn't at 15) and said "yes, officer. Perhaps we should wake my dad up and we can see if his key fits the door." I then dropped the name of one of my dad's friends who was a superior court judge and said perhaps we should drive to his house and see if his key fit his door.

At that point, I think this officer saw his career flash before his eyes and told me that he was just being cautious because there had been a string of robberies along our street. The thing is, my parents were head of the neighborhood watch! There hadn't been a burglary within 6 blocks of us in over two years! This man harassed me for one reason and one reason only, I was black in a white neighborhood. Now, it turned out okay but it did so because in the pinch of the moment, I had some serious juice I could borrow from the prominence of my parents in the community. One can easily imagine a whole lot of iterations of that scenario that don't turn out that well.

I have a modest proposal that I like to bring up in discussions of immigration because, given this nation's history I think it is *entirely* reasonable for people of color to be *highly* suspect of racial profiling and not at all out of touch for us to think that no small part of the immigration hysteria is about the color of the skin of the people. Here's my proposal.

For the next generation (20-25 years) no immigration, of anyone, from anywhere, for any reason *except* for people seeking political asylum. That means no H1Bs, no actors, baseball or football players, no one, period. Now, if you are really and truly worried about illegal immigration, then you should think this proposal sounds like a pretty good--if somewhat draconian--idea. It takes race out of the question and allows us to deal *solely* with the question of how to best allow immigrants in. If, however, you think "well, no, we needn't do that", then I submit to you that it may be worthwhile to consider that perhaps some of the energy driving the anti-immigration hysteria has less to do with people being here illegally and more to do with *brown people* being here illegally.

I suspect that if, instead of Juan and Rosa coming from south of the border, it were Seamus and Catherine, coming from England there would be far less outcry even IF the latter were coming in the same numbers.

Btw. I want to be clear, I'm not saying that YOU are racist, please don't have that reaction. I AM saying that I think that beneath the surface (and not that submerged at that) of the general weltanschung that 'they' are 'coming in droves' and want to 'change our culture' is a fear of brown people. One must admit that fear of brown people is as American as the apple pie, Chrevolet and invading nations filled with non-white people with names we have trouble pronouncing. Even the most cursory and superficial glance over American history shows that.

[Rook]

A few artists are already starting in the Protest, and those that aren't well informed are Looking into it directly..

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100430/...o_ricky_martin

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100430/...on_enforcement

Btw...
About that Cold Stone Creamery?

[Apocalipstic]

I do worry that this boycott will ultimately most hurt those people it is in support of. So much of Arizona's income is tourism and if it is boycotted then what about the taxi drivers, cooks, laundry people, hotel workers, bartenders,restaurant owners and workers, convention workers and all the people who make things happen?

Even more of them will lose their jobs.

This Governor was not elected by the people, she was next in line after the existing Governor was "promoted" to a Cabinet position by President Obama.

So there she is making draconian laws because, you know, God told her to. People all over the country boycott Arizona and who is hurt? The Governor?
No, not the Governor, the workers are hurt, as usual. The workers who did not elect her.

So not only will people (even kids) have to carry their "papers", but many more jobs will be lost in an area already heavily hit by the recession.

So yes the new laws are terrible, but is boycott the answer?

[apretty]

i think a boycott is only PART of the answer. but i am ALL for a boycott, as are my local and like-minded friends.

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

I do worry that this boycott will ultimately most hurt those people it is in support of. So much of Arizona's income is tourism and if it is boycotted then what about the taxi drivers, cooks, laundry people, hotel workers, bartenders,restaurant owners and workers, convention workers and all the people who make things happen?

Even more of them will lose their jobs.

This Governor was not elected by the people, she was next in line after the existing Governor was "promoted" to a Cabinet position by President Obama.

So there she is making draconian laws because, you know, God told her to. People all over the country boycott Arizona and who is hurt? The Governor?
No, not the Governor, the workers are hurt, as usual. The workers who did not elect her.

So not only will people (even kids) have to carry their "papers", but many more jobs will be lost in an area already heavily hit by the recession.

So yes the new laws are terrible, but is boycott the answer?

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by apretty

i think a boycott is only PART of the answer. but i am ALL for a boycott, as are my local and like-minded friends.

I wondered how people who actually live in AZ felt about this.

I hope this will go away as unconstitutional quickly.

I wonder if there is a plan to help the people who will lose their jobs becasue of the boycott? The regular people who do laundry, clean rooms, cook food. There needs to be, because they will bear the brunt.