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[Okiebug61]

Originally Posted by Greyson

Okiebug, I too believe there are many caring and good people in our country. I see it almost daily because I look for them or else I would be greatly disheartened overall by what is on the news daily.

I do believe that the majority of Americans care about our children (even if they are not related to us). We can care and have the best of intentions and still not grasp the totality of things happening in our nation every day.

I cannot help but wonder why as I watch this latest tragedy unfolding why our nation does not react with such magnitude when everyday a brown, black or poor white child is killed. It is as if we accept it on some level. That is the way things are and the best we can do is distance ourselves from such lives and neighborhoods.

When it happens in a community that is much like the community many of us live in or aspire to live in, then we are shocked and outraged. I don't think most Americans conciously realize that this reaction or lack there of is in fact collectively our responce to everday gun violence and violence in general.

Greyson,
I think each of us have our own prespective and that prespective is dependent upon our own experiences.

I don't see it being all Americans, it's like any other issue. There are people who will change their mind on gun control and there will be those who ideas of the open carrying act will be stronger than ever.

I believe in a very strong gun control policy, but I do not believe in outlawing guns.

The individual that committed this horrific act used guns because it was the easiest and most available. However he planned this attack, he didn't just get up and decide to do this. I believe he would have used any form of weapon he could have to accomplish his goal. If the guns had not been available he could have easily made pipe bombs or any other easily made explosives. He was on a suicide mission and I believe he would have done this no matter what.

Not that this matters to anyone, but I was 7 miles north of the Oklahoma City bombing. I felt the overwhelming power of the explosion and I lost friends. There weren't any guns used that day, it was ammonium nitrate fertilizer .
168 people died, 19 children under the age of 6. My point is, the wacko that attacked the school layed out a plan. I firmly believe that his plan would have been carried out no matter what. He was on a mission to kill and nothing was going to stop him.

We need to work on strengthening our mental health system. It's quite obvious to me that this person appeard to be mentally ill. It's sad the number of people that do not get treatment due to know one caring, the lack of services available or far worse the denial of family members because they are embarassed that someone they love has a mental illness and they try to keep it a secret and refuse to seek help. I can't believe his mother did not see there was something wrong with her own kid.

[spritzerJ]

Snipped for ease of addressing my point...

Originally Posted by Okiebug61

We need to work on strengthening our mental health system. It's quite obvious to me that this person appeard to be mentally ill. It's sad the number of people that do not get treatment due to know one caring, the lack of services available or far worse the denial of family members because they are embarassed that someone they love has a mental illness and they try to keep it a secret and refuse to seek help. I can't believe his mother did not see there was something wrong with her own kid.

I recommend this article...
http://thebluereview.org/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother/

To help understand a bit of parent perspective when it comes to seeking help for a mentally ill child.

To me it is wrong to speculate/shame/question the mother's actions. What happens inside families is hardly ever so simple as "did not see" or "denial".

I was in college at the time of the Thurston High school shooting (Springfield Oregon 1998) and taking a class from with a family services professor. The professor and community services leader in the area was asked the week before the shooting by the father for help. On a plane ride once he found out who the man was sitting next to him the father asked for help. He was searching everywhere and not finding help for his son. He was willing to bare it to a stranger on a plane for a helping hand.

[Okiebug61]

Originally Posted by spritzerJ

Snipped for ease of addressing my point...



I recommend this article...
http://thebluereview.org/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother/

To me it is wrong to speculate/shame/question the mother's actions. What happens inside families is hardly ever so simple as "did not see" or "denial".

I respect this and totally agree that we should not assume. I took my assumption from what a relative had said and that was the mother was not happy with the plan they had for her son. My partner is an educator and the word plan is not typically used in the education process unless there is something that would keep this child from learning in a traditional classroom setting.

There seems to be something that was not right, but you are correct that I should not have assumed his mother should have known anything.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

[Okiebug61]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2312186.html

I have always wanted to gather 1000's of our community members and protest in front of their church.

[Greyson]

Originally Posted by Okiebug61

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2312186.html

I have always wanted to gather 1000's of our community members and protest in front of their church.

These Fred Phelps robots are without any sense of compassion. IMO they are not "Christians" and they are an example of sensless violence. The damage they do may not be physical but they have harmed many psychologically and emotionally.

Pure and simple self rightious idiots. God help their children who they are raising to be just as closed hearted and closed minded as they are.

[Kätzchen]

In light of tragedy that struck in my own metro area and subsequent tragedy which transpired in Connecticut, I came across an exceptionally well written essay authored by a mother, Liza Long, a mother of four children: of whom one suffers a complicated set of debilitating mental illnesses.

The following essay (see link below) was picked up and published by The Blue Review an non-profit publication affiliated with Boise State University.

I feel compelled to share this particular article for two reasons: One, because mental health issues (illness) can range from treatable cases to cases where it is terribly hard to come up with the best possible solution to help individuals, and family members who are their care givers or overseers in daily life or even lay persons or mental health professionals who deal with or try to help people, who suffer debilitating types of mental illness. Two, because in my own family, I have a brother who suffers severely from mental illness and to this day, not even my own mother who has devoted her entire career and life as a highly skilled Psychiatric Nurse, not even my mother is able to clearly see all that is wrong with my brother and not even, by today's standards, medical doctors specializing in care and treatment processes for people like my brother, have one clue how to go about narrowing in on a diagnosis that might help bring some sort of relief to my brother's life or even my mother's life.

I am not sure how many people or families are affected by mental illness; but I know my own family is not alone in the daily struggle to oversee my brother's care and we hope that we live to tell about a day that our family could find the right set or combination of treatments to bring relief to not only one of my brothers, but relief for my mother; and for all of us who are affected by the perilous struggle in caring for someone who's afflicted with some form or another of mental illness.


<<< LINK to The Blue Review article >>>

[LeftWriteFemme]

Anonymous hits Westboro Baptist Church over Sandy Hook picket plans

Hackers publish private information about church members following news that it would picket the Newtown school



http://www.salon.com/2012/12/16/anon..._picket_plans/

[Greyson]

How the NRA Defeats National Tragedies

First it scares people into thinking the government is coming for their guns. Then it quietly asks the public to pray for the victims of the next rampage.

By David Weigel|Posted Monday, Dec. 17, 2012, at 4:07 PM ET


You might think that “spokesman for the National Rifle Association” is the toughest job in PR. You might be wrong. At least once a year, and several times in bad years, reporters reach out to the NRA’s Andrew Arulanandam and ask him whether the gun lobby has anything to say about the latest massacre. Arulanandam says basically the same thing, every time.



http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...bers_into.html

[Ginger]

[IMG]no.[/IMG]


Obviously riding on the coattails of Homeland, but I agree with the general sentiment.

[Okiebug61]

Originally Posted by IslandScout

Obviously riding on the coattails of Homeland, but I agree with the general sentiment.

Why did you post that picture? I don't understand.

[Ginger]

Originally Posted by Okiebug61

Why did you post that picture? I don't understand.

And from Kobi:

"lil warning with this would have been nice. tho the shock value is enormous"



Our drone attacks kill children in Pakistan and other countries, year round.


http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/25/wo...kes/index.html

[Okiebug61]

Originally Posted by IslandScout

Our drone attacks kill children in Pakistan and other countries, year round.
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/25/wo...kes/index.html

Do we know why?

[Okiebug61]

http://news.yahoo.com/few-memorials-...074052159.html

[Okiebug61]

Originally Posted by Okiebug61

Do we know why?

Originally Posted by IslandScout

[IMG] no.[/IMG]


Obviously riding on the coattails of Homeland, but I agree with the general sentiment.

This is some accurate information.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...s-pakistan-map

[Arwen]

I am leaving this thread. Pictures like that are horrendous. I don't need to be reminded of what is ongoing. I don't need to be traumatized like that. Sorry but this was just absolutely unnecessary.

[Okiebug61]

I apologize for reposting the horrible picture in my reply. It was not done intentionally.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by IslandScout

[IMG]no.[/IMG]


Obviously riding on the coattails of Homeland, but I agree with the general sentiment.

IslandScout -

I have removed the photo of the dead child and am going to insist that you do not post photos like that on this site again.

That photo is not only hugely triggering but there is no way to post a sufficient warning so that people have the opportunity NOT to view something like that.

Discussing the violence of the world is ok. Posting actual photos of dead bodies anywhere on the site is not.

Thanks,
Medusa/Admin

[Admin]

Originally Posted by IslandScout

And from Kobi:

*removed content of private rep*



Our drone attacks kill children in Pakistan and other countries, year round.


http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/25/wo...kes/index.html

IS-

It is also against our TOS to post content from private messages or rep notes. Removed.

Thanks

[Kobi]

The National Rifle Association on Friday, a full week after the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, gave its first response to the massacre that killed 20 schoolchildren in Newtown, Conn. Wayne LaPierre, the NRA's executive vice president, argued at a press conference in Washington, D.C., that gun control legislation would not prevent similar shootings and offered the organization's own proposal: a nationwide program that would place armed security in every school desiring protection.

"I call on Congress today to appropriate whatever is necessary to put armed police officers in every single school in this nation," LaPierre said. The proposed program, called the National School Shield, would help train and install security at schools nationwide under the leadership of former Arkansas Republican Rep. Asa Hutchinson.

"Innocent lives might have been spared," LaPierre said, if armed security was present at Sandy Hook. "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/n...-politics.html

[Kobi]

NEW YORK/SAN ANTONIO (Reuters) - The coming weeks may well be a banner one for gun sales in America - and the massacre at a Connecticut elementary school will likely be a reason.

The appetite for guns tends to increase following a mass shooting, according to a Reuters analysis of U.S. government data on background checks run on prospective gun buyers in the past 13 years - generally regarded as a reliable indicator of whether gun sales are increasing.

Gun dealers say after such shootings some customers fear for their personal security, while others are concerned the events will spur new restrictions on gun ownership.

Figures for the first few weeks of this month are not yet available, but anecdotal evidence from nearly a dozen gun shops nationwide suggests a similar response after the deadly shooting of 20 children and six adults at the Sandy Hook school in Newtown, Connecticut, on Nov, 14.

At the Village Gun Store in Whitefield, New Hampshire, the phone was ringing almost continuously Thursday with gun buyers calling to see if the store had any AR-15 type semiautomatic rifles, the weapon used in the massacre.

Six people were browsing the rifles that line the bare plywood walls of the store, the largest within 50 miles, and the long rows of handguns in a glass case near the cash register.

"I have a ton of rifles and guns on my wish list," said Thomas Roads, 25, a gun collector who owns seven rifles and three handguns already. He was buying accessories for a vintage black powder (muzzle-loader) handgun for a gift, but he also said the rhetoric out of Washington is "speeding up" his decisions on gun purchases.

Demand in San Antonio, Texas appears to be just as strong.

"Yesterday was the biggest day I have had in the gun industry, and I have been in the gun industry for twenty years," Jerry McCall, owner of Texas Guns and the Texas Thunder Gun Range in San Antonio, said on Wednesday.

U.S. gun sales have grown rapidly in recent years on the back of easing state and federal restrictions, and as savvy marketing by gun manufacturers has appealed to a broader base of customers. That is reflected in the increased volume of background checks logged in the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), with November 2012 seeing a record number of queries, experts said.

Background checks are necessary for individuals buying firearms from federally licensed retailers. Actual gun sales figures are not easily trackable.

Reuters examined the number of background checks in the month of and the month after 15 mass shootings since 1999. A mass shooting was defined as an incident where at least five people were killed and where the event received sustained media attention over a period of days.

The analysis found that background checks in the month of and the month after mass shootings were on average 19 percent higher than checks in other months. The pattern holds even after 2006, when gun sales broadly started to rise.

Just this year, for example, background checks rose 17 percent in July and August, around the movie theater shooting in Aurora, Colorado, July 20 that killed 12 people and wounded 58.

To be sure, the NICS database is incomplete as it does not include many sales at gun shows, which do not always require background checks. Also, not every background check results in a sale, though the entire firearms industry uses the data as a sales proxy.

Reuters shared its findings with prominent criminologists, who said the results were consistent with their experience of how gun buying can be triggered by such events.

"People become concerned that the society is becoming more violent after the highly publicized mass shootings - as one response, they arm themselves," said Richard Rosenfeld, a professor at the University of Missouri-St. Louis and former president of the American Society of Criminology.

For Kyle Hunt, 32, a surgeon and father of two young children with a stay-at-home wife, the Sandy Hook shooting put a new urgency on protection.

"My wife and I have definitely thought in the wake of the Connecticut shooting of getting her a weapon," said Hunt, who was buying gun cleaning supplies for his hunting rifle and pistol at Bass Pro Shop Outdoor World in Brandon, Mississippi. "You should be able to have a gun to protect yourself."

That gun sales soar at a time when more people are talking about restricting ownership illustrates the deep ideological divide in America. The country enshrines the right to bear arms in its Constitution but also suffers from some of the worst gun violence in the developed world.

Events that create "anxiety-producing circumstances for gun ownership" will lead to a short-term increase in sales, said Frank Zimring, a criminologist and professor at the University of California - Berkeley Law School.

FEARS OF SECURITY

In gun shops across the country, owners said demand has been strong since the Sandy Hook shooting, particularly amid calls for tougher rules on gun ownership from President Barack Obama, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg and other politicians.

Vice President Joe Biden on Thursday convened the first meeting of a new White House task force charged by Obama with drawing up a plan to tackle gun violence in the United States.

McCall, from the San Antonio store, said political rhetoric is behind the rush to buy.

"They want to go after the inanimate objects. That's why our sales are going through the roof, because people know that these anti-gunners have to do some sort of feel-good legislation, and they use instances like what happened in Connecticut to push their agenda, their Bloomberg agenda," McCall said.

Before the Newtown massacre, firearm industry experts said gun ownership has become more socially acceptable, particularly among groups not traditionally seen as gun buyers. Women in particular have become a rapidly growing market for gun sellers.

The annual production of rifles and shotguns for the U.S. market rose nearly 40 percent between 2002 and 2011, according to the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. The National Shooting Sports Foundation estimates the size of the industry at roughly $4 billion a year.

Wal-Mart Stores Inc, the world's largest retailer, said in October that revenue from guns rose 76 percent in the first half of its fiscal year, while revenue from ammunition rose 30 percent.

Investors have taken note: shares of gun manufacturer Smith & Wesson Holding Corp had doubled in 2012 before the Newtown massacre, while shares of Sturm Ruger & Co Inc were up almost 48 percent.

Smith & Wesson reported in early December that its sales in the six-month period ended October 31 were up 48 percent from the same period last year.

"These data points, among others, suggest to us that firearms have now taken their place in the basket of mainstream, durable goods that consumers want to buy on Black Friday," Chief Executive James Debney said on a conference call earlier this month, referring to the traditional day-after-Thanksgiving start of the holiday shopping season.

SELL-OFF

Since Friday's shooting, gun makers' share prices have plunged and major U.S. pension funds said they were reviewing their investments in the sector.

Cerberus Capital Management LP, the private equity heavyweight, said it plans to sell Freedom Group, the top U.S. manufacture of firearms, including the AR-15-style Bushmaster, the rifle that Newtown shooter Adam Lanza used.

Recent history has shown, though, that while gun makers come under pressure in the days after a shooting, over time their growth has been uninterrupted.

For example, shares of Smith & Wesson fell in the trading sessions immediately following five major shooting incidents since January 2011, but they quickly recovered each time and are up 133 percent since then.

Smith & Wesson did not return requests for comment.

While, some large, national retailers pulled rifles like the one used at Sandy Hook Elementary off shelves in nearby stores in Connecticut, most other gun stores nationwide said they were operating as normal - with some setting records.

That was the case all week at the Hyatt Coin and Gun Shop on the west side of Charlotte, North Carolina, which has been in business since 1959 and seeing record one-day sales all week.

"They're buying it faster than we're getting it in," said owner Larry Hyatt. "After this horrible tragedy, the whole country, it scared ‘em to death ... People who were thinking about buying guns in the future want to do so now."

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/insight-mas...--finance.html