Same-Sex Marriage Update

[JustJo]

As several have pointed out here...the government is highly involved in marriage, and at the national level. Marriage conveys a host of legal rights (and obligations) as well as tax status, etc. Some of that's good, some of it isn't...but marriage is not solely a religious issue, it's a legal status.

Until the federal government protects that right nationally, it's going to be an ongoing mish-mash of give and take away again, depending on the public's mood of the day and the whims of the states. That's no way to live.

I'm with you HSIN...I'd like to see this go to the Supreme Court.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

I'm one of the ones who want it to go to the SCJ. Probably no surprise there.

I think they have a great case and, of course, a California win--although I'd be happy for all out there--does nothing for other States (some that have rock solid state amendments banning equal marriage) and DOMA still being applied to same sex couples who lack over 1000 benefits.

I also don't think a win in California would do much to change the public opinion of the States around here (that will take generations) where we are located (FL).

Canada has had marriage equality since 2005 and now same sex marriages in Mexico City must be acknowledged by the other 31 states in that country (with a 91 percent Roman Catholic population no less!).

Both of those locations didn't wait until public opinion favoured marriage equality. Both Mexican and Canadian governments, court cases and and/or Supreme Courts took care of it in the name of justice and fairness for all...without a nod to public opinion.

What do you think? Would you consider it a success if the win stays in California and it isn't taken to the SCJ?

Do people still advise patience to those in other States and the issue of Federal rights?

curious.

Sometimes I bold things just to point them out, not because I agree with them. That being said, I am legally married in the State of California. I am not legally married in Florida (for example), nor do I have the other 1000 rights that are supposed to come with a marriage. Rights, responsibilities, obligations, privileges....my God damn rights!!!!

I will not be happy until we are all equal, and anybody that "settles" for one State at a time is not representing me. We have to get out of that mentality of not wanting to push too hard...because we will only get what we by rights should have always had if we push, and fight, and scream for what is ours.

I have a lot more to say, but I have to get back to work.

Blessings,

Cindy

[christie]

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

Meanwhile, Prof. Tobias Wolff, who helped the equality side with Prop 8 litigation during the California Supreme Court phase, just emailed me the following opinion on the 9th Circuit’s stay ruling and its significance to the case:

AFER’s optimistic assessment is not just spin. The Ninth Circuit’s expedited briefing schedule is significant. Also highly significant (though AFER does not mention it in their release) is the Ninth Circuit’s instruction to the parties to focus particular attention on the question of whether the appeal should be dismissed for lack of jurisdiction due to the proponents’ lack of independent standing.

A victory in this appeal on the jurisdiction / standing issue would be phenomenal. Although the principles established in Judge Walker’s ruling would only result in the striking down of Proposition 8, rather than the establishment of marriage equality nationwide, dismissal of the appeal would eliminate the risk associated with bringing these claims before the Supreme Court of the United States — the most conservative Court that we have had in the last fifty years, in many respects — and Judge Walker’s devastating analysis of the factual record and the utter lack of evidence supporting any reason for excluding same-sex couples from marriage would remain on the books and be available for us to cite in all our future efforts at litigation and legislative reform.

It is frustrating that California couples will need to wait yet longer to have their rights vindicated, but this order holds much promise for the successful elimination of Proposition 8 once and for all.

UPDATE BY EDEN: California Assembly Speaker John A. Pérez (D-Los Angeles), the state’s first openly gay legislative leader, has issued the following statement:

“Today’s ruling by the Ninth Circuit panel is consistent with the fact that groundbreaking decisions are often stayed pending appeal. The fact that the Court is expediting the hearing schedule only underscores the point Judge Walker made in his ruling: LGBT Californians have suffered, and are suffering, from having our constitutional right to equal protection and due process violated every moment Prop 8 remains in effect. This ruling is a reflection on established legal convention, and in no way diminishes the powerful and eloquent statement in defense of our constitutional rights Judge Walker made in his ruling.”

Just an FYI about the prop 8 trial tracker - we got to meet Phyllis (one of the NOM trackers) on Sunday - she was just great. There is a pic posted of yours truly and Jess about halfway down the page. I'm the one with the pink (ugh) backpack! Our son is the tall kid in the plaid hat behind us. Its not the greatest picture in the world - after a morning of touristy hell in the rain, we were just glad to be standing still!

Also - lil fella, Will Phillips - well, I won't be surprised if he is a world leader. Its amazing what our kids can teach us if we listen.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

Sometimes I bold things just to point them out, not because I agree with them. That being said, I am legally married in the State of California. I am not legally married in Florida (for example), nor do I have the other 1000 rights that are supposed to come with a marriage. Rights, responsibilities, obligations, privileges....my God damn rights!!!!

I will not be happy until we are all equal, and anybody that "settles" for one State at a time is not representing me. We have to get out of that mentality of not wanting to push too hard...because we will only get what we by rights should have always had if we push, and fight, and scream for what is ours.

I have a lot more to say, but I have to get back to work.

Blessings,

Cindy

I came off kind of....well, kind of like me on my soap box! Sorry, I get very passionate about things I really believe in.

I grieved for weeks after Prop 8 passed because I firmly believe that everyone should have the same joy I have found.

[Cyclopea]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

I'm one of the ones who want it to go to the SCJ. Probably no surprise there.

I think they have a great case and, of course, a California win--although I'd be happy for all out there--does nothing for other States (some that have rock solid state amendments banning equal marriage) and DOMA still being applied to same sex couples who lack over 1000 benefits.

I also don't think a win in California would do much to change the public opinion of the States around here (that will take generations) where we are located (FL).

Canada has had marriage equality since 2005 and now same sex marriages in Mexico City must be acknowledged by the other 31 states in that country (with a 91 percent Roman Catholic population no less!).

Both of those locations didn't wait until public opinion favoured marriage equality. Both Mexican and Canadian governments, court cases and and/or Supreme Courts took care of it in the name of justice and fairness for all...without a nod to public opinion.

What do you think? Would you consider it a success if the win stays in California and it isn't taken to the SCJ?

Do people still advise patience to those in other States and the issue of Federal rights?

curious.

I think it's a win either way. It doesn't seem like a very good attempt at an appeal- I don't think they are really trying.

I wouldn't mind seeing the massachusetts DOMA case reach the SCOTUS first.
But either way it's a precedent setting win as long as Walker stands. I'm more interested in the recent national poll that shows increasing public support- now an even split: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...lit-evenly-on-
gay-marriage/

I am very attached to the idea of boise and olsen arguing before SCOTUS, (because they are so experienced and have such a good track record) and hope that they will continue to litigate on our behalf.

As long as the issue is decided before 2012 (when a public vote by californians for marriage equality could completely void the whole case) I'll be happy. Although that's not exactly a loss either.

I can't say I advocate for "patience", because if it wasn't for boise and olsen ignoring the gay establishment's cries for "patience" this trial would not have even occurred. I guess I advocate for steadfastness and celebrating the inevitability of marriage equality in the USA.

[Cyclopea]

On a different topic....

Can anyone find any proof that Maggie Gallagher is actually married?

I can't seem to locate that info and would really appreciate it if someone could post that info for me. I know she claims to be married but can't actually find any info supporting that. Thanks for your time.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by Cyclopea

On a different topic....

Can anyone find any proof that Maggie Gallagher is actually married?

I can't seem to locate that info and would really appreciate it if someone could post that info for me. I know she claims to be married but can't actually find any info supporting that. Thanks for your time.

It was hard to find. I thought she was divorced b/c I know she goes by her original name but I was wrong; it was another *sin* I was confusing it with...unwed motherhood!




A former unwed mother, she married Raman Srivastav in 1993 [4] and has two children. [5] [6]


http://wapedia.mobi/en/Maggie_Gallagher <--not sure if this is proof enough! You sure don't see her husband and children around much (at all?).

[Cyclopea]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

It was hard to find. I thought she was divorced b/c I know she goes by her original name but I was wrong; it was another *sin* I was confusing it with...unwed motherhood!




A former unwed mother, she married Raman Srivastav in 1993 [4] and has two children. [5] [6]


http://wapedia.mobi/en/Maggie_Gallagher <--not sure if this is proof enough! You sure don't see her husband and children around much (at all?).

Thank you for trying! I saw the wiki entry but it is unsubstantiated. No one has ever seen her "husband" and she does not even wear a ring. I'm looking for any proof whatsoever that she is actually married. Hopefully someone can find that. Thanks!

[Soon]

Originally Posted by Cyclopea

Thank you for trying! I saw the wiki entry but it is unsubstantiated. No one has ever seen her "husband" and she does not even wear a ring. I'm looking for any proof whatsoever that she is actually married. Hopefully someone can find that. Thanks!

Ok. Daniel just walked in and was like, "She's divorced!"

I had typed that out first but had no proof!

He's convinced she is divorced.

I'm getting him on the case.

[Jess]

Neither Gallagher nor Alveda King showed up Sunday for the last stop on the NOM tour.

I am just amazed at King's position in lieu of her very specific family history and even more so, considering her aunt, Coretta Scott King made very public statements in support of gay rights.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Originally Posted by christie0918

Just an FYI about the prop 8 trial tracker - we got to meet Phyllis (one of the NOM trackers) on Sunday - she was just great. There is a pic posted of yours truly and Jess about halfway down the page. I'm the one with the pink (ugh) backpack! Our son is the tall kid in the plaid hat behind us. Its not the greatest picture in the world - after a morning of touristy hell in the rain, we were just glad to be standing still!

Also - lil fella, Will Phillips - well, I won't be surprised if he is a world leader. Its amazing what our kids can teach us if we listen.

Awesome picture!

I had seen the picture when looking through the site...I love seeing pictures of Butch-Femme couples!

[Cyclopea]

Originally Posted by christie0918

Just an FYI about the prop 8 trial tracker - we got to meet Phyllis (one of the NOM trackers) on Sunday - she was just great. There is a pic posted of yours truly and Jess about halfway down the page. I'm the one with the pink (ugh) backpack! Our son is the tall kid in the plaid hat behind us. Its not the greatest picture in the world - after a morning of touristy hell in the rain, we were just glad to be standing still!

Also - lil fella, Will Phillips - well, I won't be surprised if he is a world leader. Its amazing what our kids can teach us if we listen.

Great Pic!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/courage...gn/4895011402/

[Soon]

Originally Posted by Cyclopea

Great Pic!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/courage...gn/4895011402/

Ya cuties!!!

Fabulous!

[christie]

Originally Posted by Cyclopea

Great Pic!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/courage...gn/4895011402/

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

Ya cuties!!!

Fabulous!

Oh wow. That's us! LOL I had no clue it was posted elsewhere!

There was one of us really smoochin - the fella made us hold it for his shot. I have NO clue as to where that one wound up!

It was great to be there. I was disappointed that the counter rally was a MILE away from the NOM nutjobs. It was also an unexpected surprise that our hotel was on the corner opposite the HRC Natl HQ.

I do think that I was really nice to some of the NOM folks at the Natural History Museum - they were standing in front taking pictures of one another and I offered to take one of them as a group. A couple of the ladies were really gracious while the older man and woman looked as if they wished the earth would open and swallow me. Oh well. Kill 'em with kindness!!

[Soon]

Latin America ahead of U.S. on same-sex marriage

Countries such as Mexico and Argentina have shown recognition that religion and civil law have different roles to perform in marriage, something absent in the debate in the U.S.

As California and the United States struggle with the issue of same-sex marriage at the polls and in courtrooms, Latin America is moving more broadly toward acceptance of this basic human right. Last month, Argentina became the first nation in the region to legalize such marriages, granting wedded gay and lesbian couples the same legal rights, responsibilities and protections as heterosexuals. Following suit, senators from the opposition Socialist Party in Chile introduced a bill proposing to remove the "man and woman" clause from the marriage law there. And Mexico's Supreme Court, which had upheld a law enacted in March permitting same-sex marriages in Mexico City, issued a 9-2 decision this week that gay marriages performed in the capital — a federal district like Washington, D.C. — must be recognized by all 31 states in the republic.

This is a wrenching issue for traditionally conservative and deeply religious countries, influenced by Roman Catholic and Protestant evangelical churches opposed to gay unions. Church leaders have taken strong public stands against gay marriage in Argentina and Mexico. But throughout Latin America, marriage is a civil institution performed by the state. The recognition that religion and civil law have different roles to perform in marriage is often painfully absent in the debate in this country; Latin American nations have hewed to that distinction and are better off for it. The Mexican Supreme Court is not liberal so much as committed to the primacy of civil law.

Still, there is political opposition too. Conservative Chilean President Sebastian Pinera has pledged to expand the rights of same-sex couples seeking civil unions, but says he believes marriage should be between a man and a woman. Mexican President Felipe Calderon's conservative National Action Party has close ties to the Catholic Church, and his government had challenged Mexico City's gay marriage law on the grounds that it violated constitutional protections of the institution of the family and procreation.

The Mexican Supreme Court overruled the president. It determined that the Constitution does not define "family," procreation is "not an essential element of marriage," and same-sex marriage does not interfere with the rights of those who want to conceive. The court is to rule on another challenge to Mexico City's law allowing same-sex couples to adopt children.

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The legal battles are far from over in Mexico, however. Although the court said states must recognize the marriages performed in the capital, it did not require the states to reform their laws to allow same-sex marriages. It also left the door open for states to legislate on divorce, pensions, inheritances and other issues involving same-sex couples. Some undoubtedly will enact restrictive laws that will end up back in the courts. But that is part of the long march of progress. In the meantime, Latin America has made great strides toward ending discrimination and granting equal rights to gays and lesbians

[Jess]

Originally Posted by Cyclopea

Thank you for trying! I saw the wiki entry but it is unsubstantiated. No one has ever seen her "husband" and she does not even wear a ring. I'm looking for any proof whatsoever that she is actually married. Hopefully someone can find that. Thanks!

If she isn't married... according to NOM supporters, hers is only "half a family". I guess she must get her comfort from her loving God since her friends only consider her a fraction.

[Jess]

Originally Posted by Jess

We had the privilege of hearing this brilliant young man speak yesterday at the Big Commit Rally. He is the boy from Arkansas who refused to say the pledge of allegiance until ALL people can get married.

I got our boy in school today. While waiting for the guidance counselor to go through class selection, etc. we listened to the morning announcements. It began with the Pledge of Allegiance. We were sitting in the main office and everyone present stood up, hand over heart, eyes on flag and repeated it along with speaker. The boy glanced at me with a startled look and kinda shook his head muttering "uh-huh". I remained seated beside him.

I'm not sure how he will feel tomorrow am when he is in his first period class but I do know that hearing this young man ( Will) really seemed to have impacted him.

We didn't get a chance to discuss it and I will be discussing it with his other mom tonight, so we are both on the same page "if" Alex decides to follows Will's lead. Part of me hopes he does. Part of me totally understands if he doesn't. Being a new kid in a new school with special needs after being in a non-mainstream school for several years and dyke parents.. he is already in front of the eight ball.

Glad to see so much great participation in this thread! thank you to everyone who has been participating ( either vocally or not! )

[suebee]

"A Hindu priest performed the first wedding ceremony in Nepal for a foreign gay couple, a rights group said Wednesday, as activists and tourist agencies increasingly promote the Himalayan nation as a gay-friendly destination."

Story here.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Thursday, August 19, 2010
SAN DIEGO: 12 Activists Arrested In Marriage Protest At County Clerk's Office

A dozen activists were arrested today at a San Diego county clerk's office when they refused to leave without being issue marriage licenses.
On the day hundreds of gay and lesbian couples statewide planned to obtain their long-awaited marriage licenses, a crowd of about 50 people gathered at the county clerk's office Thursday to protest a federal judge's stay of a federal ruling that Proposition 8 is unconstitutional. Three people were taken away in plastic handcuffs by sheriff's deputies early in the demonstration and an additional nine people were removed later. A deputy said they were detained for blocking access to a county office. Tony and Tyler Dylan-Hyde and at least one other couple came to the county clerk's office this morning at 8 a.m. asking to receive their marriage license. "We believe that county officials and the Attorney General have the authority and the obligation to allow marriage licenses to proceed based on both federal court findings and that Prop. 8 is unconstitutional and the governor's filings in Prop. 8 cases," Tyler Dylan-Hyde said. "We are asking you to do what's right."

According to the linked news story, those arrested had blocked the entrance of heterosexual couples with appointments to get licenses.

[betenoire]