Recession or Depression?

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

The House and the Obama administration have a multitude of ideas to help people. The problem lies with 41 Republican senators who refuse to let any legislation pass unless it benefits big business. 41 people who don't give a damn about working people and struggling Americans stand between our country's current situation and any hope for improvement.

And I think that this number is going to grow in November..... brace yourselves.... or get out there and start fighting!! Mid-term elections are so damn important!

[Ldyluck88]

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

The House and the Obama administration have a multitude of ideas to help people. The problem lies with 41 Republican senators who refuse to let any legislation pass unless it benefits big business. 41 people who don't give a damn about working people and struggling Americans stand between our country's current situation and any hope for improvement.

Overall, I feel the economy sucks!! So many illegal aliens who are taking jobs and not paying taxes, etc. I would love to have any job at this point!! Big business are the survivors, while the small businesses suffer. It is not easy to even find a minimum wage job now, trust me, I have tried!! I am not giving up, as my survival depends on it, or I will be out in the street soon.

[MsDemeanor]

Thank you for bringing racism in to the discussion.

[Bit]

Originally Posted by Ldyluck88

Overall, I feel the economy sucks!! So many illegal aliens who are taking jobs and not paying taxes, etc. I would love to have any job at this point!! Big business are the survivors, while the small businesses suffer. It is not easy to even find a minimum wage job now, trust me, I have tried!! I am not giving up, as my survival depends on it, or I will be out in the street soon.

Ldyluck, I understand your frustration about not being able to get a job right now, and I wish you luck--may you find what you need!

Your assertion about taxes is dead wrong, though. Illegal aliens from any country DO pay taxes; they're held out of their paychecks just like everyone else's are. Think about it--these businesses would all be shut down by the IRS if they didn't pay the payroll taxes for their employees!

What happens is that since people have to use fake social security numbers to get the jobs in the first place--employers are REQUIRED to have social security cards on file for every employee--they pay the taxes but can never collect the benefits, not retirement, not Medicare, not disability, not unemployment, nothing.

I know this by direct experience; there are many illegal aliens connected to my family through two different branches. My one nephew's father, as a matter of fact, has been laid off and will soon be homeless himself if he cannot find another job.

These are hard-working people who ask for little other than a chance to make a living, and who receive even less than those of us with the proper birth certificates do. These are our neighbors, who only want to live safe lives with enough food on the table and a way to pay their rent every month. In a booming economy, we would hardly notice them; the suffering economy impacts them as much as it does everyone else. The solution is not to focus on them, but on the economy itself. The solution is to create more jobs to replace all the ones that big corporations have taken overseas.

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by Ldyluck88

Overall, I feel the economy sucks!! So many illegal aliens who are taking jobs and not paying taxes, etc. I would love to have any job at this point!! Big business are the survivors, while the small businesses suffer. It is not easy to even find a minimum wage job now, trust me, I have tried!! I am not giving up, as my survival depends on it, or I will be out in the street soon.

Do you really believe this?!

Oh and the correct terminology is undocumented individual, FYI.

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by Bit

...
Your assertion about taxes is dead wrong, though. Illegal aliens from any country DO pay taxes; they're held out of their paychecks just like everyone else's are. Think about it--these businesses would all be shut down by the IRS if they didn't pay the payroll taxes for their employees!

What happens is that since people have to use fake social security numbers to get the jobs in the first place--employers are REQUIRED to have social security cards on file for every employee--they pay the taxes but can never collect the benefits, not retirement, not Medicare, not disability, not unemployment, nothing.

I know this by direct experience; there are many illegal aliens connected to my family through two different branches. My one nephew's father, as a matter of fact, has been laid off and will soon be homeless himself if he cannot find another job.

These are hard-working people who ask for little other than a chance to make a living, and who receive even less than those of us with the proper birth certificates do. These are our neighbors, who only want to live safe lives with enough food on the table and a way to pay their rent every month. In a booming economy, we would hardly notice them; the suffering economy impacts them as much as it does everyone else. The solution is not to focus on them, but on the economy itself. The solution is to create more jobs to replace all the ones that big corporations have taken overseas.

Thank you!

[Ldyluck88]

I apologize if I have offended a few people by my post. Where I lived in the desert, many were paid under the table and did not pay taxes, etc. I should not have generalized, my fault. But, I am entitled to my opinion, like anyone else, and I will try to watch how I state things from now on.

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by Ldyluck88

I apologize if I have offended a few people by my post. Where I lived in the desert, many were paid under the table and did not pay taxes, etc. I should not have generalized, my fault. But, I am entitled to my opinion, like anyone else, and I will try to watch how I state things from now on.

The employer did not pay taxes, social security pension fund, health insurance, disability, etc. In addition, the employer gets the pleasure of having the worker do whatever or else report them, These people work in inhumane conditions.

If this wasn't a good deal for those honest employers, then this would not be a problem.

I am sure if you go to this place you speak of they would hire you. I say go for it.

And yes, we are all entitled to our opinions. But "I" prefer that racist remarks be left in the confine of our homes.

[Ldyluck88]

Originally Posted by UofMfan

And yes, we are all entitled to our opinions. But "I" prefer that racist remarks be left in the confine of our homes.

I am not a racist if you are "assuming" I am. I apologized for the remark, but in no way does that make me a racist and did not appreciate you refering to me as one!! Enough said.

[christie]

I once worked for an employer in TN who made a practice of hiring employees who had "questionable documentation". While the documents they presented for I9 requirements had one name, they went by another and every year, the Department of Social Security would send a list of employees whose provided social security numbers did not match official records.

We were required to post the list and ask the employees to contact SS to resolve the issue. For the two years I was there, the list was the same and the employees listed were also the same.

These employees did have social security and medicare taxes withdrawn from their pay, but all of them had completed W-4's in a manner that no federal tax was withheld. TN doesn't have a state income tax, so there was no contribution to the state except in the sales tax they paid on purchases.

Of course, the employer paid matching SS and medicare taxes along with FUTA and SUTA.

I left employment there based on some other questionable activities that I could not be a party to once I became aware of them.

Of course, there are many employers who do have unofficial employees who are paid off the books or as 1099-MISC independent contractor. There are no employment taxes (SS, Medicare, SUTA or FUTA) paid nor are these folks eligible for any benefits.

Several years later, at a different employer, I was able to assist one of our employees in gaining his citizenship. The expense, things he had to learn, the process was so overwhelming even to me. Some of the things he had to learn to "pass the test" were questions that I had to look up - things that I am not even sure were covered in my many years of education.

It took him a good 5 years to obtain his citizenship and I was honored that he asked me to attend the ceremony. I watched as 51 people from 26 different countries took the oath of citizenship and it struck me as to how much they wanted to be a part of the country that we so often bitch and moan about - that they went through the ordeal to have some of the very rights we do have and take for granted. It was humbling, to say the least.

I still have a ring that he gave me as a thank you present that he purchased on his first trip back to visit his family (what was left of it) in Iraq. There are times when I am digging in my jewelry box that I come across it and think about Khalid and what becoming a citizen meant to him.

A slight derail to the topic at hand, I know, but I felt important to mention that while I understand non documented persons are just trying to feed their families and survive as the rest of us do, this issue does add to the overall economic issues.

Its not about racism, but more that I feel it needs to be easier, less costly for a person to become documented. I feel we need to make it more difficult for employers to "pay under the table" so that it solves both issues - the worker who works for meager pennies and the employer who surely uses this power he has over the worker to his advantage.

More to the topic at hand, the industry in which I work has historically shown economic trends 3-6 months before other industries. Q1, we have shown a 11% increase in sales, many "new business", which based on our 57 year history, indicates that we should see an upswing in the economy in the next 3-6 months. I watched the ebb and flow of our business last year and the 3-6 month theory held pretty well. It makes me hopeful.

[apretty]

Originally Posted by Ldyluck88

Overall, I feel the economy sucks!! So many illegal aliens who are taking jobs and not paying taxes, etc. I would love to have any job at this point!! Big business are the survivors, while the small businesses suffer. It is not easy to even find a minimum wage job now, trust me, I have tried!! I am not giving up, as my survival depends on it, or I will be out in the street soon.

this sentiment would be laughable if it weren't rooted in ignorance and racism.

as far as your assertion that you would 'love to have any job at this point' --have you tried standing outside of home depot and picking up one of those day labor jobs that you think have been stolen from you?

[Ldyluck88]

Originally Posted by apretty

this sentiment would be laughable if it weren't rooted in ignorance and racism.

as far as your assertion that you would 'love to have any job at this point' --have you tried standing outside of home depot and picking up one of those day labor jobs that you think have been stolen from you?

I'm so glad to see you are so judgmental in your assumption of me. Your ignorance does not warrant a response.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by Ldyluck88

I'm so glad to see you are so judgmental in your assumption of me. Your ignorance does not warrant a response.

I was wondering....these jobs that have been stolen from you (lawn maintenance, picking strawberries, cleaning toilets) would you be willing to work them for the same wages (less than minimum, let me tell you!) that these awful illegal immigrants who are ruining your life are doing them for?

Don't get all snippy. Just answer the questions.

1. I would be willing to clean some rich person's toilet for less than minimum wage with no medical insurance.
Circle True or False

2. I would be willing to work longer than 12 hour days picking fruit, while making less than minimum wage and getting no medical insurance.
Circle True or False

3. I would be willing to mow some assholes lawn. I don't mind that I will be making less than minimum wage and will receive no medical benefits.
Circle True or False

If you answered false to any of those questions kindly stfu about how the big bad illegal immigrants are stealing your jobs. YOU WOULD NOT BE WILLING TO DO THE JOBS THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE DOING. Admit it.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Ldyluck88

I apologize if I have offended a few people by my post. Where I lived in the desert, many were paid under the table and did not pay taxes, etc. I should not have generalized, my fault. But, I am entitled to my opinion, like anyone else, and I will try to watch how I state things from now on.

My illegal momma was someone's maid for years.. Wanna know why? Cause no one else wanted the fucking job, she didn't take it from anyone, she took what made her money to feed her kids with... So please yes be a lil bit more careful how you state things.. please and thank you

I have to add because it bothers me it really does...

You are being judgemental by--- somehow conjuring up in your privileged mind that those who do not have the proper documentation to work in this USof A are *stealing* jobs from...

Who? Do these people go around knocking people down at the lines of people standing to pick the lettuce we all eat in a bag?

Do you think my non english speakin momma took someone's knees out to get this high end position? Do you know what maids do for rich folk?

Do you honestly think that the guys moving the lawns elbowed someone in the eye and got in front of the line at the company they got hired at?

I am really curious *how* you came to the conclusion jobs are being stolen by *illegal immigrants*

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by Ldyluck88

I am not a racist if you are "assuming" I am. I apologized for the remark, but in no way does that make me a racist and did not appreciate you refering to me as one!! Enough said.

I am not "assuming" anything, besides I am not the only one who got that from your comments and lack of sensitivity.

Most racist don't think they are being racists. I am not saying this is the case with you, but I invite you to take a closer look at your moral compass.

I will also invite you to look around this forum and see how low the tolerance is for "racist" remarks. There is a plethora of them available to anyone wishing to spew them, either directly or indirectly. This does not make them ok.

Your apology did not ring true to me, I am sorry but that is MY opinion.

As a member of the Latin community, I found your comments offensive.

[turasultana]

Taking this to another direction.. I just came out of a 1 1/2 hour presentation on consumer trends and the economy.

There's a free white paper (haven't looked at it yet but I believe its the same subject matter of the presentation) here: http://www.darwiniangale.com (edit: just looked and you have to fill in info to get it, be forewarned).

Basically how we've gone from an age of indulgence to an age of consequence where folks are more aware of the consequence of risk. They will still spend but prioritize their spending more and shop on value not just price.

Technically we're no longer in a recession but slow growth recovery (with bumps in the road).

Anyway, not going to bore you will all the details, but I took notes

[Ldyluck88]

Originally Posted by UofMfan

I am not "assuming" anything, besides I am not the only one who got that from your comments and lack of sensitivity.

Most racist don't think they are being racists. I am not saying this is the case with you, but I invite you to take a closer look at your moral compass.

I will also invite you to look around this forum and see how low the tolerance is for "racist" remarks. There is a plethora of them available to anyone wishing to spew them, either directly or indirectly. This does not make them ok.

Your apology did not ring true to me, I am sorry but that is MY opinion.

As a member of the Latin community, I found your comments offensive.

I already apologized, and you will not give it a rest. I feel you are now beating a dead horse, let it die!! A new day, that was yesterday, it's gone and one cannot live in the past. DO NOT judge me, that is in God's hands, and tho you are entitled to you opinion, I too am entitled to mine. Btw, it is not up to you to question my morality, nor is it mine to question yours. Can you pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeee stop all these negative comments now???? I read your "opinions', so noted, time to move on now, ok?

[Ldyluck88]

Originally Posted by turasultana

Taking this to another direction.. I just came out of a 1 1/2 hour presentation on consumer trends and the economy.

There's a free white paper (haven't looked at it yet but I believe its the same subject matter of the presentation) here: http://www.darwiniangale.com (edit: just looked and you have to fill in info to get it, be forewarned).

Basically how we've gone from an age of indulgence to an age of consequence where folks are more aware of the consequence of risk. They will still spend but prioritize their spending more and shop on value not just price.

Technically we're no longer in a recession but slow growth recovery (with bumps in the road).

Anyway, not going to bore you will all the details, but I took notes

Thank you for your post. I guess it may depend on where you live. Here in CA, it said: The number of people unemployed in California is 2,308,00--up by 31,000 over the month, and up by 362,000 compared to March of last year.
I hope you are right and jobs do become available to people. The government needs to find a way to create new jobs to help the economy grow once again. Keeping my fingers crossed!!

[SuperFemme]

In these types of conversations I often wonder why nobody brings up all the undocumented workers who DO pay taxes, pay into Social Security and Disability but can never file for those tax benefits?

The amount is astronomical.

[julieisafemme]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

In these types of conversations I often wonder why nobody brings up all the undocumented workers who DO pay taxes, pay into Social Security and Disability but can never file for those tax benefits?

The amount is astronomical.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!! Bit also brought this up a page or so back.