Ask a trans person!

[Liam]

Originally Posted by apretty

This is strange, I've seen you around different butch/femme sites for years (using different screenames) and I can't understand how you suddenly have a few questions regarding WHY trans people are in queer space.

Further, these are all the same questions that gate-keepers ask when they want to keep trans-people out of "their space".

Your post is creepy and does NOT seem genuine, or from good place, at all.

Regardless of your sincerity Hunter, your questions are rude.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by apretty

This is strange, I've seen you around different butch/femme sites for years (using different screenames) and I can't understand how you suddenly have a few questions regarding WHY trans people are in queer space.

Further, these are all the same questions that gate-keepers ask when they want to keep trans-people out of "their space".

Your post is creepy and does NOT seem genuine, or from good place, at all.

Oh. Interesting. So do we know you Hunter? Here I am/others are, assuming you are "new" to the queer sites (and I believe you know we think this), and you are not?

Well, that kind of sucks. Not cool, dude.

Thanks, apretty.

[Greyson]

Originally Posted by apretty

This is strange, I've seen you around different butch/femme sites for years (using different screenames) and I can't understand how you suddenly have a few questions regarding WHY trans people are in queer space.

Further, these are all the same questions that gate-keepers ask when they want to keep trans-people out of "their space".

Your post is creepy and does NOT seem genuine, or from good place, at all.

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Oh. Interesting. So do we know you Hunter? Here I am/others are, assuming you are "new" to the queer sites (and I believe you know we think this), and you are not?

Well, that kind of sucks. Not cool, dude.

Thanks, apretty.

When I first read Hunter's questions I remember a conversation I had with apretty a few years back with similar questions. At the time, I did not realize my own internalized transphobia was at play.

I did not respond to any of Hunter's questions because I tend to try and give some thought to my feelings and responses now. During this time of mulling over that Hunter did post these questions, I did notice the Hunter has not come back to this thread and responded to any of the posts in response to her intitial post, questions.

My question to you Hunter, is where are your responses, comments to all of the people that took the time to respond to your questions?

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Liam

Regardless of your sincerity Hunter, your questions are rude.

Originally Posted by Greyson

When I first read Hunter's questions I remember a conversation I had with apretty a few years back with similar questions. At the time, I did not realize my own internalized transphobia was at play.

I did not respond to any of Hunter's questions because I tend to try and give some thought to my feelings and responses now. During this time of mulling over that Hunter did post these questions, I did notice the Hunter has not come back to this thread and responded to any of the posts in response to her intitial post, questions.

My question to you Hunter, is where are your responses, comments to all of the people that took the time to respond to your questions?

Personally, on the surface, I don't think the questions were rude.

If it had been a butch or femme lesbian who had never been around transpeople before and then came upon the Planet, I think that they are not surprising questions.

There are people out there who live in small communities and do not have contacts with a diverse group of people. Since the person admitted to being ignorant of information and said they were not meaning to be disrespectful, I took them at their word.

It is a shame that it may be a person who was really trying to just be a jerk. It really sets members up to not be so trusting in the future, ya know?

Greyson, I think this person has not returned b/c she has been "found out".

Oh well. Sad.

[SoNotHer]

I wanted to thank you all for your writing. I appreciated your answers very much. What you've written is beautiful in its profundity and intelligence. And you handled the questions with grace, taking the higher ground.

I have much to learn about the trans community, but I believe I will learn much here. I also believe you fall in love with a person. I would consider myself lucky to fall in love with someone as brave, self aware and self determined as the posters who responded here, a beautiful exception to the many who are unconscious or afraid to be who they are.

A while back, I attended a lesbian weekend retreat in Galveston. A transgendered person wanted to come along, which created some friction, particularly upsetting one member. I said something to the group like, "Well it didn't stop you from inviting me." They paused, wide-eyed and dumbfounded and then laughed nervously. And then I said, "Really, who's to say who any of us are who should be and what company we should keep?" I was startled and angry. I didn't want to believe that we who had been excluded and stereotyped would in turn do the same thing. People began to reconsider and decided to do the right thing. As it turned out, the lesbian-identified woman who protested too much fell in love with the person she would have rejected. In fact, I think it started that weekend.

So I wonder if Hunter has reasons beyond what she may know or is ready to embrace. For her sake, I hope she has that self discovery sooner rather than later and learns to embrace the queer community in all its beautiful and intelligent complexity.

For my own sake, I am grateful for you and your writing.

[Thinker]

Posting as a member...not as a moderator...

I think the fact that Hunter Green has not returned to stay involved in this particular conversation is telling. I admit that I was suspicious of her intentions which is why I opted not to take the time I know it takes to thoroughly and thoughtfully answer those types of questions.

Unlike some, I do think we owe it to each other to educate others (both in and out of this community). I know some don't like that role, but I don't mind it so much. However, if I don't feel right about where the person is coming from then I ignore the request and go on about my business. I don't think that is hypocritical nor do I think it is rude. My intuition is my rudder, and I owe it to myself to pay attention to it; it keeps me safe.

I've been around a long time, and I feel pretty good about the way I navigate these boards. I don't think I'm an expert nor do I think my way is the best way; I'm also not given to offering unsolicited advice. But if you don't mind me saying it, I recommend not giving people who rub you the wrong way ANY of your energy. If you feel the poster is trying to get a rise out of you, don't give 'em one. That really is the best revenge, in my opinion.

Now I'm not saying HG is guilty of anything here, but I am saying that something about that post didn't feel right to me so I opted to pass it on by. If I was off base.......well......I've been off before. No harm, no foul as far as I'm concerned.

[*Anya*]

I want to thank all of you for your very honest answers. I would have asked them, perhaps differently; but had some of the same questions myself.

One time, when I first joined the planet, I simply stated that I did not understand self-identified lesbians dating trans individuals because it was out of my frame of reference. I was immediately flamed. It was very, very upsetting to me. I even explained that I was partnered with a butch lesbian for 19 years and all of our friends were lesbians and that I simply had never been exposed to gender concepts. All of you must understand that there have been light-year changes in gender, trans and the lesbian community in almost 20 years of time. We lived a very vanilla life which probably had a part in it too.

It was not a trans or male-identified person that flamed me but I did not want to blunder again and the experience made me afraid to ever even bring up anything about gender again or any questions I may have had. I also would never deliberately hurt anyone's feelings. It is just not me.

I can only speak for myself but I am very appreciative to have gained some knowledge and insight I did not have before. Thank you.

Peace,

[J. Mason]

Ugh how did I miss this!

I find those questions to have a motive behind them, something just isn't adding up and the fact that Hunter hasn't returned makes me wonder.

[J. Mason]

Ok guys how do yall feel when someone uses a female pronoun to describe you to someone else?

[Linus]

Originally Posted by J. Mason

Ok guys how do yall feel when someone uses a female pronoun to describe you to someone else?

Annoyed and disrespected but it does depend on who it is. If my grandmother does it, well.. *shrug*.. she's 80+. I cannot imagine how hard it is for her to change her thought process after using the same one for the last 80 years! That said, when colleagues do it, I gently remind them. I've had a few who have forgotten, realized it and apologized profusely (one of my closest colleagues and buddies does this on occasion but he self-corrects pretty quickly and feels really bad when he does his slips).

The question that may be asked is this: is it deliberate or a mistake? If it's a mistake, let it slide a little. If it's deliberate then you need to speak to them about it.

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by Linus

Annoyed and disrespected but it does depend on who it is. If my grandmother does it, well.. *shrug*.. she's 80+. I cannot imagine how hard it is for her to change her thought process after using the same one for the last 80 years! That said, when colleagues do it, I gently remind them. I've had a few who have forgotten, realized it and apologized profusely (one of my closest colleagues and buddies does this on occasion but he self-corrects pretty quickly and feels really bad when he does his slips).

The question that may be asked is this: is it deliberate or a mistake? If it's a mistake, let it slide a little. If it's deliberate then you need to speak to them about it.

Ditto

(10 character rule)

[J. Mason]

I am coming across this with some close friends of mine and they do correct themselves at times when I don't say anything right up front, I guess the silence tells them that I am perturbed about it.

I am not sure if its deliberate or by mistake, it is hard to tell sometimes.

I have been nice and gave them a list of terms to educate them but IDK if they even bother to listen to me or not.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by J. Mason

I am coming across this with some close friends of mine and they do correct themselves at times when I don't say anything right up front, I guess the silence tells them that I am perturbed about it.

I am not sure if its deliberate or by mistake, it is hard to tell sometimes.

I have been nice and gave them a list of terms to educate them but IDK if they even bother to listen to me or not.

How long has it been since you came out? How often do they see you? Keep in mind that you have felt this way your whole life but they were used to what you were before (as far as what they saw and what society thought you were). It make take them time.

[J. Mason]

I have been out about the last 3 years and the people I am referring to were the first to know, granted my family doesn't know a thing (which is another story in itself). I see them on a regular basis or talk to them on a regular basis as well.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by J. Mason

I have been out about the last 3 years and the people I am referring to were the first to know, granted my family doesn't know a thing (which is another story in itself). I see them on a regular basis or talk to them on a regular basis as well.

Then the time has come to have a little sit down with them and explain how this is hurting you. That it is important for them to be more proactive about keeping the right pronouns and that it could even jeopardize your safety if said near the wrong "company".

[J. Mason]

Originally Posted by Linus

Then the time has come to have a little sit down with them and explain how this is hurting you. That it is important for them to be more proactive about keeping the right pronouns and that it could even jeopardize your safety if said near the wrong "company".

Agreed!

(blick 10 character minimum)

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by J. Mason

I have been out about the last 3 years and the people I am referring to were the first to know, granted my family doesn't know a thing (which is another story in itself). I see them on a regular basis or talk to them on a regular basis as well.

Hey... Can I assume you have not taken any steps toward a medical/physical transition?

And please, please know there is NO judgment in asking that question. And please know it makes no difference to me and most others *here*.

However, if there aren't physical changes for them to *see* then it's most likely a very abstract thing for them so they're really struggling.

Society in general sees who they perceive to be "female" and use she/her, and they see who they perceive to be "male" and use he/him. And that's pretty much all they see and know. It doesn't make it right or good or bad or whatever......it's just the way it is in the mind's eye of most people you will encounter.

Based on my experiences, there's a pretty fine line between those who "slip up" and those who are being shitty. Most of us want to give people the benefit of the doubt. When you don't and you call them out on it, then they can always cop to just making a mistake and then all of a sudden *you* are the jerk. It's a tough road to navigate.

If these people are important to you, then just keep at it and give 'em a little more time. If you feel they are deliberately disrespecting you, then I would cut 'em loose.

[J. Mason]

Originally Posted by Thinker

Hey... Can I assume you have not taken any steps toward a medical/physical transition?

And please, please know there is NO judgment in asking that question. And please know it makes no difference to me and most others *here*.

However, if there aren't physical changes for them to *see* then it's most likely a very abstract thing for them so they're really struggling.

Society in general sees who they perceive to be "female" and use she/her, and they see who they perceive to be "male" and use he/him. And that's pretty much all they see and know. It doesn't make it right or good or bad or whatever......it's just the way it is in the mind's eye of most people you will encounter.

Based on my experiences, there's a pretty fine line between those who "slip up" and those who are being shitty. Most of us want to give people the benefit of the doubt. When you don't and you call them out on it, then they can always cop to just making a mistake and then all of a sudden *you* are the jerk. It's a tough road to navigate.

If these people are important to you, then just keep at it and give 'em a little more time. If you feel they are deliberately disrespecting you, then I would cut 'em loose.

I am very pre op, trying to get the money for the things I need to take the step in the right direction.

I try to be patient but patience isnt one of my virtues, but hell I am looking for support ya know.

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by J. Mason

I am very pre op, trying to get the money for the things I need to take the step in the right direction.

I try to be patient but patience isnt one of my virtues, but hell I am looking for support ya know.

I totally understand, J. I hope you know that. And I hope you know we support you here!!

I was just trying to figure out why this might be so damn challenging for your pals. Like I said, it doesn't excuse it or make it better; but sometimes it helps to think about it at a different level......like what goes on with *most* people with regard to this topic and not just those in our immediate circle.

Like Linus said, a sit-down-heart-to-heart is definitely in order.

[J. Mason]

Originally Posted by Thinker

I totally understand, J. I hope you know that. And I hope you know we support you here!!

I was just trying to figure out why this might be so damn challenging for your pals. Like I said, it doesn't excuse it or make it better; but sometimes it helps to think about it at a different level......like what goes on with *most* people with regard to this topic and not just those in our immediate circle.

Like Linus said, a sit-down-heart-to-heart is definitely in order.

Thank you guys for the understanding I am glad to have these threads on the forum.

I am in total agreeance a good heart to heart is in order.