Olivia Cruisers? Carribean Sun Cruise October 30th

[SassyLeo]

Originally Posted by citybutch

I would be interested to hear about the cruise line Sweet. They do a lot of activism... building schools, fixing computers, etc... to the depressed countries they visit... That's a part of their philosophy of cruising...

Anyone know?

Here is their link:

http://discoversweet.com/

Originally Posted by betenoire

Who can travel with Sweet?
Sweet loves our allies in all shapes and flavors. So while our vacations are designed for lesbians, anyone who looks at what we do and thinks it looks like fun is welcome to join us.

Their FAQ

I would be interested to know if that's just talk or if they mean it, though. Like if someone who had actually been on one of their cruises could give us the skinny on things - that would be nice.

I have never been in a Sweet vacation, but I have heard they are very open and progressive.
I did take a look at the photos they have on their website, and while I do not know, obviously, how everyone in the photos identifies...there is definitely a variety of folks: http://discoversweet.com/photos/

[nycfem]

I never knew this, Jack, and feel strongly about protecting oceans and sea life. It should have been common sense but I really hadn't thought about it. Now that I read what you wrote and google and see just how damaging cruises are to the environment, no more cruises for me, that's for sure. Glad you posted this- I will share with others.

Originally Posted by Jackhammer

Today’s cruise ships carry on average between 3,000 and 7,000 people including the crew. A moderately sized ship on a week’s voyage can generate more than 200,000 gallons of human sewage – enough to fill 10 backyard swimming pools – a million gallons of gray water, 25,000 gallons of oily bilge water, more than 100 gallons of hazardous waste, and eight tons of solid waste, including ground up food waste. And almost all of it gets discharged into the environment either straight into the ocean or incinerated onboard and the ashes thrown overboard with a small amount hauled on shore.




So what they don't dump, they burn while folks are enjoying their cruise.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Jackhammer

Today’s cruise ships carry on average between 3,000 and 7,000 people including the crew. A moderately sized ship on a week’s voyage can generate more than 200,000 gallons of human sewage – enough to fill 10 backyard swimming pools – a million gallons of gray water, 25,000 gallons of oily bilge water, more than 100 gallons of hazardous waste, and eight tons of solid waste, including ground up food waste. And almost all of it gets discharged into the environment either straight into the ocean or incinerated onboard and the ashes thrown overboard with a small amount hauled on shore.




So what they don't dump, they burn while folks are enjoying their cruise.

It all comes down to this in the end, doesn't it?



Someone's been living with Medusa.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by Jackhammer

I'm a licensed plumber... I cant help but wonder

Now sounds like a good time for me to bitch about the weird screaming pipes in my building. Whenever I, or anybody else in the building, runs the water for more than about 90 seconds the pipes all screech for a good 5 minutes afterward.

Not your fault, obviously. You've never been here. But I'd like you to let me know if I am going to die a horrible death from screeching pipes (hey! anything is possible!) or if we should all collectively continue to ignore it.

[waxnrope]

You guys are just full of it

[Kobi]

I can see all the forms of phobias, and inclusion/exclusion and probably a few isms as well.

What I cant seem to get passed is ....what do you mean I am stuck on a huge ship with thousands of people I dont know in the middle of nowhere for a week? Not even dealing with the poo issue....thanks Jack.

Maybe a harbor cruise or a day sailing trip hugging the coast? Anyone?

[MysticOceansFL]

It's not that I have money to burn but I'm not going to make my choices of where I want to enjoy my vacation do to someone not being able to go on the Olivia Cruise If you have a problem or a situation with the cruise line then choose and pick another one and friendships shouldn't be based on what or where someone goes anyways! I get the impression that most of people are trying to "play" the you pick them we"ll not be friends with you, because of your choices" and that tells me that you never really were friends to begin with now was ya?

[Julie]

Originally Posted by MysticOceansFL

It's not that I have money to burn but I'm not going to make my choices of where I want to enjoy my vacation do to someone not being able to go on the Olivia Cruise If you have a problem or a situation with the cruise line then choose and pick another one and friendships shouldn't be based on what or where someone goes anyways! I get the impression that most of people are trying to "play" the you pick them we"ll not be friends with you, because of your choices" and that tells me that you never really were friends to begin with now was ya?

Mystic,

I have read each and every comment on this thread, and from what I gather, I do not believe this has anything to do with a popularity contest.

It comes down to commonalities with people. Personally, I would not be friends with a Racist. They would not fit very well in my community and I would do what I could to educate, to inform them what this does to our global community when they speak this way. The same holds true in "our" community. If we support organizations that are "exclusive" and not "inclusive" then we are in fact perpetuating the same bigotry. If I allow people in my "world," who support such things, such as racist organizations or even organizations who are not supportive and inflammatory toward my community, then I am in fact perpetuating the same thing. I will however, offer my voice as a means to educate.

I do not know you personally, but most likely would not invite you into my inner circle. Not because you are not lovely, but because you support such organizations. I would not attend a party which served Coors beer - Even though Coors changed their policy, I still will not allow it in my house.

I also boycott the Michigan Womyns Music Festival - And I have no time for those that support an exclusive organization.

Julie

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by MysticOceansFL

It's not that I have money to burn but I'm not going to make my choices of where I want to enjoy my vacation do to someone not being able to go on the Olivia Cruise If you have a problem or a situation with the cruise line then choose and pick another one and friendships shouldn't be based on what or where someone goes anyways! I get the impression that most of people are trying to "play" the you pick them we"ll not be friends with you, because of your choices" and that tells me that you never really were friends to begin with now was ya?

This is kinda ridiculous, to assume that people are posting their opinions so that all their friends follow like sheeple and not go on a vacation if that is what they wanted to do.

If (insert name) decided tomorrow that she was going on and Olivia Cruise, I would be like

I would more than likely talk to her about it, and our friendship would change since she is supporting a place I do not for it's policies. I don't know to what degree it would change but I am pretty positive that I would not just kick her to the curb without having some kind of dialogue.


Once again I find it odd that you are reading some subliminal message that is saying if pick a side or you are out the club.

Really odd.




PS

Can someone PLEASE point out the phobia, inclusion/exclusion ism's comments?????? PLEASE

[suebee]

I've been shaking my head since I saw this thread yesterday. Mountainstar has had her thread good and throughly hijacked. I believe it was intended to be about the cruise - maybe about other vacations. But between issues with Olivia and issues with the cruise ship industry in general I think we've managed to sour something that was light and fun for her - especially in light of what the cruise meant to her.

I guess it's too late to suggest that another thread might be a better place to sound off on the issues that are being brought up, but I just felt compelled to put in my two cents worth.

I hope you enjoy yourself MS.

Sue

[SuperFemme]

Right. The thread was hijacked by the horrible people who WERE discussing cruises.

Oh wait. What is being said is that it's only discussing if it shits glitter and sunshine.

Of course we want Mountain to have a good cruise, and it wasn't in the OP that it was shared what it meant to HER on a very PERSONAL level. Ironically, as a person with terminal cancer AND a spouse named Cal, I can totally say that if I were in her shoes I'd probably be doing exactly what she is doing.

Not liking Olivia Cruises or cruises in general that are not environmentally friendly does NOT mean that there are ill wishes towards the OP.

I swear.

[suebee]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Right. The thread was hijacked by the horrible people who WERE discussing cruises.

Oh wait. What is being said is that it's only discussing if it shits glitter and sunshine.

Of course we want Mountain to have a good cruise, and it wasn't in the OP that it was shared what it meant to HER on a very PERSONAL level. Ironically, as a person with terminal cancer AND a spouse named Cal, I can totally say that if I were in her shoes I'd probably be doing exactly what she is doing.

Not liking Olivia Cruises or cruises in general that are not environmentally friendly does NOT mean that there are ill wishes towards the OP.

I swear.

I agree with everything you're saying - except about shitting glitter. Never WAS able to do that.

Usually we ask that a thread stay on topic, and that another thread be started if a splinter issue comes up. But thanks for answering.

Sue

[BullDog]

I do understand that having a butch femme group event on a lesbian cruise is totally inappropriate because not all butch femme community members are lesbians.

For people going on vacations on an individual basis with their spouses, significant others or friends that are not lesbians they would choose a different type of vacation. I totally get that. Or you may be a lesbian who just doesn't want to be stuck on a ship with thousands of other lesbians. Or you don't like cruises for environmental or other reasons. I totally get that.

If lesbian transwomen are discriminated against I think that is wrong. They are lesbians and women too and of course should be included. I do support the need and desire for having women's only space. I do not support any organization that excludes transwomen from their definition of women's space.

I also think it's wrong for anyone to be treated rudely at the docks or anywhere else.

What I don't understand is people seem to be upset that Olivia Cruises is geared towards lesbians and that it isn't inclusive? I don't think it was set up so they could say x, y and z can't go. It was set up for lesbians to have vacations geared for them. There's nothing on their website talking about who can't go. It talks about being a lesbian owned travel business that sets up vacations for lesbians.

There are lots of vacation businesses and packages that are geared towards gay men. I have never been offended that they aren't geared for me. I am not interested in buying a vacation package to go on a cruise or other type of vacation geared towards gay men. I hope they have a great time.

Are people saying its wrong that all queers are not included? Why can't a travel business set up vacations aimed for lesbians? Or for gay men? Is there a different between Olivia Cruises and some travel business geared towards gay men? I genuinely am puzzled. If people wanted to have a butch femme vacation business I think that would be great and a queer vacation business for every single type of queer person would be great too. However, I don't think every single travel or other business needs to be geared towards every single type of queer person.

My other question is do people who are not lesbians really want to go on vacations geared towards lesbians?

I totally understand everyone can make their choices about where and who they want to vacation with and how they spend their money. I am not understanding why setting up vacations where lesbians are the target audience is wrong.

[SuperFemme]

Newsflash: There are many, many LESBIANS who are partnered with transfolk.

[BullDog]

Yes I am very well aware of that. I said that in my post.

[Corkey]

As a business I wouldn't be making judgements on who could or could not attend. As a business set up for lesbians who sometimes partner with FTM's it would be incumbent upon my business to be as accommodating as possible so that I have return business. If I just say you are on your own take your money and deny you passage on my business then my ethics do indeed need to be examined.

[Ebon]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Yes I am very well aware of that. I said that in my post.

Well the point is that the Olivia lesboat was discriminating against transfolks, not that it was wrong to have gay/lesbian only vacations.

[chefhmboyrd]

i personally have no interest in a lesbian cruise, whether or not i was "allowed" to go on the boat, there would undoubtably be haters present.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Damn bully, I don't think this is really about Olivia not wanting men on their cruise, I get that.

I happen to be with someone who is a guy, so does that mean I get my women's space privileges taken away?

Another thing, let's be honest the reason so many people came on here with their concerns and posts about Olivia cause in another place and time SOMEONE was trying to hoodwink all of us by saying one thing, some people called and got a different story, then SOMEONE came in wagged their finger and stomped their feet and called people names.

THEN what pissed people off more was more evidence was given, and then ALL the Queens Horses and ALL the Queens Gals came in and not only wagged their finger and used academic language to basically say.

Hey mother fucker you don't pay to post here so shut the fuck up.


That's why we all have a sensitive spot when it comes to Olivia and it spilled over here..

I know on my end of the world none of the people in my pack want to participate with Olivia due to well it's women's space and well we all tend to stick together and will not go where trans follk are not welcome.

That's how we roll though.


No one is wanting to take over Olivia's women's space what we have here is a lot of people saying how they feel, some of us with some hurt feelings over it.

Unfortunately it happened in a thread MS started asking us if we are all going.


True story

[Gayla]

What people are saying is that we each have an individual choice as to whether we support Olivia by attending their events and giving them our money.

Right now, where I'm at in my life today, I can't imagine spending any amount of time on a boat full of 3,000 lesbians. That's not some place that I would be comfortable. It doesn't sound like fun. Throw me on a boat full of 3,000 gay men, I'd probably have much more fun.

Olivia has the "right" to do whatever they want in the way they structure their business and who they choose to cater to in the same way that I get to decide who I support monetarily. In the past, I did support Olivia and give them quite a bit of my money. That was back when they were a women's music company and not a cruise line.

There seems to be some type of underlying insinuation that we should all support Olivia because they are a woman-owned / lesbian-owned business and that we are somehow "bad lesbians" or anti-lesbian or lesbiphobic if we don't.