06-14-2010, 09:40 AM | #61 |
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I'd like to add that as a partner to an FTM that I often find myself performing the role of "social lubricant" (thank you to the person who reminded me of that) to his sober self.
I really find that different than speaking for him or being his supporting actress. I would like to call that being his wife. |
06-14-2010, 09:41 AM | #62 | |
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That was NOT to get on your last nerve, since i seem to do that so well. I never said we were tight, always the opposite. I dont mean any disrespect and i did not say you were stereotyping ME, it was just in your example. You can now leave me out of this conversation. |
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06-14-2010, 09:45 AM | #63 | |
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06-14-2010, 09:45 AM | #64 | |
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Stuff like that happens so much it is second nature. Because he hasn't yet had surgery I silently pray that he will be "Sir'd" at the same time he get's made so that we can get out of a situation safely. |
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06-14-2010, 09:59 AM | #65 | |||
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I think Femmes have diverse (and possibly divisive) labels such as Stone Femme, Queer Femme, Lesbian Femme, High Femme, Tomboy Femme, etc. I don't think the other side of this coin really gets those labels and sometimes I see those labels used to mock femmes (or femmes that make up the "ex" on their personal life's map.) So I do think that we as a community of self-identified Femmes can demonstrate by doing over talking. Quote:
I'm not sure how we appropriate Butch/Transguy/Them by being an ally. I think I'm not reading your point correctly on this. Can you expound on it when you are feeling better? Quote:
I think that, for me, building a fence is when I tell a butch who id's one way how "all" other butches of another id think/feel/act. It is honestly something I have to watch myself on because I'm really good at telling other people what other people think. OMG. I think I just realized something. I've set myself up as a thought translator. Well that's not good. |
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06-14-2010, 10:06 AM | #66 |
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I find myself wanting to speak for my homies or my boy and Grant, I don't. OH I want to I really do but truth be told, I am coming from and emotional state and not a logical one. I feel when I come in sword charging it dimisses them and their words and value, so as hard as it is I have to sit back and watch and give only my experience in their lives.
Make sense?
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06-14-2010, 10:20 AM | #67 | |
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It was an example, the thread was meant to let AtLastHome's thread stay on course. I should of listened to my inner voice said fuck it and not started it. I thought it would do good. My apologies. I knew better.
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"If you’re going to play these dirty games of ours, then you might as well indulge completely. It’s all about turning back into an animal and that’s the beauty of it. Place your guilt on the sidewalk and take a blow torch to it (guilt is usually worthless anyway). Be perverted, be filthy, do things that mannered people shouldn’t do. If you’re going to be gross then go for it and don’t wimp out."---Master Aiden |
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06-14-2010, 10:21 AM | #68 | |
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Your last line...I'm going to ask. Are you going for humor? Because I think you've hit something kind of important. Those of us who are conditioned to be female may, in fact, have a nurtured (not nature or is it) need to be responsible for those we care for. We are often in the role of mothering (even those of us who don't have children in one way or another), I think. That can be caring for animals, even. (No peanut gallery, I don't want to hear about how your children ARE animals. smile) Does this discussion boil down to a hunter/gatherer mentality or is there more here? For me, I think there is more here to chew on. I think given my own initial "that's BS" reaction to the thread and original question, that I need to explore it more carefully. |
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06-14-2010, 10:35 AM | #69 |
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Aren't responsibility and influence light years apart?
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06-14-2010, 10:43 AM | #70 | ||
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i personally think the thread is a good idea. i think it is possible that femmes have helped build fences. i think i may have put in brick or two myself. And not out of "bullshit human behavior" or intent. So i am interested in this thread. It's not about taking responsibility for others' relationships. It's about taking responsibility for myself and the effect i have on others. |
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06-14-2010, 11:16 AM | #71 | |
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Kinda weirded out here, June. Not sure how my sexual preferences got wound up in this. I have never once said (although it's been extrapolated all over the place by those that never had the fucking respect to just ask me) that my non-preference to go down on a female lover made me better. In fact, I can probably find where I've said that it made me worse or broken. Now, I'm gonna tell you that this has really irked me because you got personal here. I'm going to take a breath and assume that you did so for a reason. However, my own personal hurt is really getting in the way of me seeing what that reason is. I have never and will never say that someone who likes cunninglingus (receiving or giving) is worse or better than me. Simply different. Now. If you want to make this about why I don't call myself a lesbian, let's go there. Because I have every right in the world to say that, don't I? How on earth does my saying I don't like coconut diminish or lessen those who do? HOW? I realize that you did not state what my preferences were, but I did because I don't much care for the hidden.
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06-14-2010, 11:28 AM | #72 | |
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I recently watched a bunch of youtubes of abc's what would you do? series (thank you Lady Snow for posting those links), and I was really horrified to know exactly how many people will not bother to help somebody who is in need of serious help - including homophobic and racist verbal or even physical attack. I think I also read in another thread that you have yourself been in situations where an effective ally would have been handy. What I got from watching those and reading your posts is that it must be somewhat ingrained in human nature not to help others when they need it and so I think part of being a good and effective ally is to be willing to stand up, support and defend others when they are attacked or in need.
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06-14-2010, 11:35 AM | #73 | |
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This is obviously one of those triggers that I wasn't aware of or thought I'd addressed. I haven't apparently because that hurt bad enough to make me curse. I appreciate your clarification a lot. And I will always give you hugs because I happen to like you a lot. Now I get to go to work. Do you think I should tell them I haven't had cafFIEND since yesterday morning? Nah. They'll be okay. |
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06-14-2010, 11:41 AM | #74 | ||||||||||
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Me too, except for the fact that my Femme friends have often acted as my social lubricant. heh. Quote:
Yes, but I don't think they carry the same *gender* connotations for us that they do for our butch/trans counterparts. Quote:
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Which in the long run doesn't really build a bridge. Or does it? What do you think? Quote:
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06-14-2010, 11:52 AM | #75 |
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[QUOTE=June;130231]Well. We can start threads about anything, which I love. I read your OP yesterday, and then today, and I looked at the other posts, and *I* kept coming back to the same place. "Why am I, as a Femme responsible for the relationships the more masculine folks in this community have?"
I don't think it is a femme thing, I think it is a human thing. there is a kind of paradox that exists with the responsible thing: we are told we don't infulence others, everyone is responisble for themselves. If you let negative stuff bother you it is your problem. But, when we are nice, kind, gentle, accepting, that impacts those around us. everything runs good when people are good. So why, when people are mean do we want to say that should not impact others. No matter how it should be in a perfect world, we don't live there. Our words and actions influence others. And yet in the end we are each responsible for our own selves. It is not simple or easy, it is complex and deep and full of complexities. Common sense says that butches/trans impact femmes also, in both good and bad ways. So perhaps thinking about it in terms of humans and how we impact each other takes the "perceived femme responsiblity" out of it. And really, I would say the same thing to everyone: Be who you are. There are always going to be people who don't like/accept you. You can not please everyone. So look for people who are accepting and kind. They can have any id, cause one's id is not what makes one a mean human. Mean humans are still mean when you strip everything else away. I didn't come in here to waggle my finger at you, I came in to express an opinion. Besides, I know if I get that finger too close to your evil little mouth, you're gonna bite it off. <3
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06-14-2010, 12:16 PM | #76 | |
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So often in an online setting we've been forced to settle for an atmosphere of do as I say, not as I do hypocrisy, and it is refreshing to see you say what you mean and mean what you say. When the leadership here is willing to practice what they preach it makes us all willing to tow the line and sit up straight. Kudos. |
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06-14-2010, 02:05 PM | #77 | |
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I just find this interesting. Are you saying butches or men are NOT as hypervigilant and protective? I may have missed something, and I totally own that...I'm out of town and reading on my phone. Here's why I ask...btw, I'm not calling you out...I'm asking seriously...so, here's why I ask. Mahhh Woman notices looks/stares/whatnot from people that I never even see. She overhears comments and all sorts of shit I have become completely oblivious to over the years. I've heard other butches say the same thing about their partners. I *think* that because I have lived with the stares/comments for so long (as opposed to Mahhh Woman) I just don't notice them anymore (usually). But one place I *have* noticed a difference between ALL of the femmes/women I've dated (when it comes to hypervigilance/protectionism) is I am very aware of my and Mahhh Woman's (what I call) 'bubble'. I may not notice a stare from 'over there', but you can bet, I know when someone gets in my/our/her bubble, and there will be some sort of measure taken to resolve the situation. Like even if I'm across a room or something, I wkill *know* if someone's in Mahhh Woman's bubble and such. I'm really not explaining this well, but...I have talked to other butches about this, and they *know* what I'm talking about...but when I've talked to femmes about it, they have no clue. So, I'm truly curious...again not 'calling you out' or anything like that Dylan |
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06-14-2010, 02:30 PM | #78 | |||
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You are going to get protective and resolve the situation if you sense danger in you and your womans *bubble* (or personal space so to speak). You are not oblivious to perceived or real threats at all. Your woman on the other hand might have a larger bubble? Meaning that a look from that cowboy way way over there is going to trigger her spidey senses and her fight or flight mechanisms whereas it's become so second nature to you that it probably doesn't even register until the offender gets within a certain radius? |
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06-14-2010, 02:31 PM | #79 |
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SuperFemme said: I am having a completely different read on this thread. I am not at all reading it as Femmes having to be responsible for how butches and trans folks get along. I am reading it as Femmes being a part of the equation though. Neither of us exist in a vacuum. Some Femmes perpetuate the chasm between Butches and Trans Folks. Some Femmes are Butch Avengers and/or Trans Avengers...always ready to leap from a tall building to speak for a Butch or Trans person. To nurture. To save.
And I agree! This is what comes to mind when I read through the posts to this thread thus far. And honestly, right this minute it's more interesting to me to hear from other femmes here how we alienate each other (other femmes) when one femme puts down the protector sword while another picks it up and actually uses it to poke the other femme in the proverbial eye! On the other site, a femme started a thread asking for tips and help to prepare for her first dildo experience with a butch. We were happily chatting along when a butch appeared and started making little jokes and sexual innuendo. And I called hym out on it and asked that hy respect the thread, read if hy must, but not post. Immediately, two other femmes began to describe how the butch that had posted was one of the nicest people on the thread and blah, blah. Avenge the feelings of the butch! Honestly, I was floored that femmes would be willing to sacrifice their sisters to protect a butch's feelings in that type of circumstance. Interested in others thoughts on that.
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06-14-2010, 03:06 PM | #80 | |
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It is a shame that everyone is reduced to sex acts while waiting for a butch or trans guy to show up isn't it? Conversely, I understand that somebody thought that they were joining in on the spirit of the thread, but it IS disheartening. |
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