The Debates

[~ocean]

Ryan got lucky .. he just got a crash course in foreign affairs by Biden .. ** wipes Ryan behinde his ears ** ..enough said... ~

[julieisafemme]

My favorite part was when Joe Biden said he would not legislate my womb because he is a practicing Catholic. That is the kind of politician I want in the White House.

[DMW]

Dear GOP...don't tell me that you care about the economy...and don't mention 8% unemployment or Greece....
The GOP house blocking the debt ceiling...refusing to raise it..caused the gridlock that destroyed our credit rating and hurt the whole country...seriously...Biden should have talked about this one when Ryan tried to say cares about the middle class or that
he desires a congress that works with one another. Dude is a little anti-christ like Cantor..
Such a joy for me to help oust Santorum in PA.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1519561.html
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...llion.php#more

I hope that they come out with facts upon facts upon facts to catch that flip flopper at the next debate. Spew the facts.

Agreed...julieisafemme....separation of church and womb.

[Martina]

I am listening to it now online. I had a class tonight and couldn't watch it live.

Biden is doing great. Ryan is no slouch. And he's not lying globally about his record.
Martha Radditz is doing a good job, too. This is fun.

The other debate really was a travesty: Romney reinventing himself on the spot, Obama checked out, and the Jim Lehrer making a hash of moderating.

What a relief to hear a real debate. I was hearing the Twilight Zone music in the background after Debate 1.

[Corkey]

I was caught yelling at boy wonder.
Biden rawked and I loved his gestures and smiles when Lyan Ryan got going. Hey Ryan stay the F* out of women's wombs! Unless you want one then you can tell women that you do and what you can do with it. Jackass. he was clueless about international affairs as well.

[laruss]

I finally got to watch and I can't believe Ryan was chosen to run as Vice President. He is a child in that type of political ring. If your country votes Romney/Ryan I wish you the best of luck, as I think you will be f*cked.

Biden seemed to always correcting wrong information. Every time Ryan opened his mouth Biden was laughing at him and having to correct more lies that the Republicans are feeding the public.

Crazy ass politics.

[macele]

both sides make me so frustrated. who do you believe?!?! they all lie. and i'm not saying that i can't take a little bit of lying, that's what they do best, ... politics. i'm voting democrat. that's all i know. but mississippi hasn't put a democratic president in office, ... in umm forever.

last night when biden told ryan that it wasn't very long ago that ryan was asking him for the stimulus money, ... now ryan is calling that money wrong. that was funny lol. yeah buddy, you wanted it a little while back lol.

[Miss Scarlett]

Listening to Ryan reinforces my belief that there is a movement within the Republican Party to "bomb women back to the Stone Age." It seems they want to take away our rights and turn us into second class citizens at best. Abortion is not for me but that doesn't mean i don't support a woman's right to choose. It's MY body not the government's.

If Congress passes the proposed legislation that declares that life begins at the moment of conception and extends 14th Amendment rights to the unborn it can result in a firestorm...women who choose abortion could be charged with murder as could women who use certain methods of birth control. What would follow? If a woman miscarries could she be charged with some form of manslaughter?

These same politicians condemn the Taliban but the more i learn about their agenda and the more i think about it, the more convinced i am that they are nothing more than wolves in sheep's clothing and very dangerous ones at that.

[Corkey]

They are the Christian Taliban. There is no difference between them. I have saying,"your rights end at the beginning of my nose". Feel free to use at your discretion.

[princessbelle]

I sincerely hope that this is not offensive to anyone. I found it hysterical.

Rachel Maddow had a piece of this on her show.

Wanted to share....

[Martina]

The usually entertaining Maureen Dowd on the VP Debate. The parts I especially liked from her commentary:

An Irish Catholic Wake-Up
By MAUREEN DOWD

NOW you know what Thanksgiving with my family is like.

A donnybrook with Irish Catholic uncles and nephews interrupting one another, mocking one another, arguing over one another, bombastically denouncing every political opinion except their own as malarkey.

The loser of the vice-presidential debate was, of course, Barack Obama. In contrast to the pair on the undercard slugging it out, the president’s limp performance the other night was even more inexplicable and inexcusable. The president was no doubt warned not to sigh, but his entire demeanor was a sigh.

The fact that one diffident debate by the president could throw his whole race into crisis shows that nobody madly loves Obama anymore. With his aloof presidency, he shook off the deep attachments from 2008, and now his support lacks intensity.

Even if he comes out in the town-hall debate on Tuesday with Ben Affleck charm, he has a Mitt Romney problem. Will it be the real Obama or will he just be doing what the media suggest and the base demands?
. . .

If Obama needed Biden on the ticket to add a little humanity, Romney needed Ryan as “a modular conviction unit,” as one Obama adviser joked. Romney, a say-anything salesman used to buying whatever he wants, hired his ideology.

Ryan is a true believer, and that’s a little awkward now that Romney is making strides by showing that he truly believes nothing — running away from, rather than toward, the hard-right stances that won him the nomination.

“Convictions aren’t helpful at the moment,” said David Axelrod, the Obama strategist. “The game right now is to try to obfuscate. Romney’s audacity in the debate was in hiding their plans. And Ryan actually believes this stuff. He argued for a Social Security privatization plan so radical that even the Bush administration called it irresponsible.”

The 42-year-old Wisconsin congressman kept gulping water, and once, when Biden nailed Ryan for twice soliciting the very stimulus money he condemns, he may have actually gulped. Unlike Palin, who also had to cram before her debate, Ryan did not need to memorize chunks. He actually tried to learn about all the parts of the world he had never followed closely. On Afghanistan, he spouted so many obscure geographical references, from Zabul to Kunar to the treacherous eastern provinces, he sounded like Google maps.

. . . . .
(I knew Raddatz would be tough because I once saw her dress down a male clerk at a Marriott hotel in Saudi Arabia who told her that women were not allowed to use the gym.)

. . . . .
Biden also boxed Ryan into looking as though he wants to send more American troops to Afghanistan and to intervene in Syria, which isn’t so appealing to war-weary America.

Ronald Reagan knew how to bluster for peace. Neocons do not. When they run the show, threatening a war is followed by going to war and that is followed by bollixing up the war and that is followed by our troops’ dying at war and money-pit nation-building to end the war, and that is followed by economic disaster for America.

Amped to make up for all of Obama’s missed shots, Biden went on a one-minute scream-of-consciousness about the 47 percent cited by Romney as moochers, the 30 percent cited by Ryan as takers, Scranton, his parents, the Buffett rule, Social Security, veterans, the 47 percent again, Grover Norquist, the middle class, a fair shot, Wall Street vs. Main street, and $500 billion in additional tax cuts for 120,000 wealthy families. Practically in one breath. Whew.

Biden’s weakest moment was on Libya, where he stumbled as he claimed that the White House didn’t know about requests for more security for diplomats there. It is likely true that such an appeal never made it through the Foggy Bottom bureaucracy to the West Wing. But the vice president should have been prepared to answer questions about a blunder that has scuffed the administration’s national security luster.

. . . . .

Mittens has been doing better with women since the first debate. Raddatz didn’t dwell on women’s issues, which denied Biden a chance to home in on Ryan’s chillingly retro positions.

Ryan, who has long opposed abortion even in cases of rape and incest, said, “The policy of a Romney administration will be to oppose abortion with the exceptions for rape, incest and life of the mother.”

When Raddatz asked Ryan if those who believe abortion should remain legal should be worried if the Republican team wins, Ryan basically said yes.

“We don’t think that unelected judges should make this decision,” he said, though he and other Republicans for decades have pined for a Supreme Court that would overturn Roe v. Wade. He added, “People, through their elected representatives and reaching a consensus in society through the democratic process, should make this determination.”

Biden, for once, wasn’t smiling.

[Martina]

The New York Times

October 14, 2012
Obama’s Prep Session Goal: Don’t Repeat Mistakes of Last Debate
By HELENE COOPER

WILLIAMSBURG, Va. — To prepare for the second round of the presidential debates, President Obama retreated here this weekend — to the environs of this historic village where actors in 18th century garb wander about spouting off in colonial diction.

But as Mr. Obama huddled with close aides on the spectacular resort grounds of what was the Kingsmill Plantation in the 17th century, the history that dominated his presidential study sessions was of a far more recent kind: how not to repeat the mistakes he made at his first debate with Mitt Romney a week and a half ago, when he stood by passively as an aggressive Mr. Romney dominated him, abruptly curtailing Mr. Obama’s momentum and turning the campaign upside down.

The president and his aides were clearly taking debate prep far more seriously this time around. Mr. Obama has scheduled more time, and his aides say that they will try to keep interruptions to a minimum. He is on a resort with not one, but three, golf courses, but he did not bring his clubs and had no plans to hit the links. There will not be any visits to historic sites (he was criticized for going to the Hoover Dam when he was supposed to be studying for the last debate, in Denver); his sole off-campus excursion on Sunday took only half an hour. It was to a campaign field office here where he made a few phone calls to volunteers, delivered pizza to staff members, and pronounced his debate prep as “going great” in answer to a shouted question from a reporter.

Incongruously, a Ferrari convention was taking place at the president’s James River resort — called “Ferraris on the James.” The cars, which glided to the river — in clear view of the main building where Mr. Obama was doing his prep sessions — were accompanied by the ubiquitous Ferrari-owner types who stood around languidly, hands in the pockets of their crisply ironed slacks, while valet attendants peered at various undercarriages. No word on whether the president found it distracting.

This time, instead of focusing on the nuts and bolts of debate facts — no one thinks the president needs to bone up on American troop withdrawals from Afghanistan’s Korengal Valley, for instance — Mr. Obama is practicing how to challenge Mr. Romney, something he inexplicably shied away from in Denver on Oct. 3.

“This isn’t a guy who needs be grilled on facts,” one Obama aide said of the president. “What he needs to work on is stylistic.” Translation: how to accuse Mr. Romney of twisting the facts without seeming rude.

Mr. Obama watched his running mate, Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr., take on Representative Paul D. Ryan in the vice-presidential debate on Thursday night, and Mr. Biden is widely viewed as having done a far better job than his boss. Mr. Obama’s aides were at Mr. Biden’s prep sessions, so presumably they picked up pointers.

Mr. Obama watched the vice-presidential debate aboard Air Force One flying back to Washington from Miami, where he had appeared at a campaign rally. He huddled with six aides in the conference room aboard the plane to watch Mr. Biden interrupt Mr. Ryan, grin constantly to convey disbelief at Mr. Ryan’s assertions, and twice call the congressman’s presentation of facts “malarkey.”

“That was pretty good!” Mr. Obama said again and again at Mr. Biden’s zingers, according to one aide in the room with the president. After landing at Joint Base Andrews in Maryland after the debate, Mr. Obama broke with tradition and approached reporters gathered under the wing of Air Force One to say he was proud of his running mate’s performance.

He could not say that about his own performance the week before, though.

“He knew when he walked off that stage, and he also knew as he watched the tape of that debate, that he has to be more energetic,” Robert Gibbs, an Obama adviser, said on CNN’s “State of the Union.” This time around, Mr. Gibbs said, “I think you’ll see somebody who is very passionate about the choice that our country faces.”

The president’s aides say that Mr. Obama, who is fiercely competitive about everything from basketball to golf to Taboo games with his daughters, is now viewing Tuesday’s debate at Hofstra University on Long Island as a chance for him, with his back against the wall, to come out swinging against Mr. Romney. But he must also try not to appear desperate and must take into account the different format of the next debate, which will be town-hall style, with questions coming from people in the audience. So during the debate sessions, Mr. Obama is working on how to answer questions posed by the audience in a respectful way, while still drawing contrasts.

Another major unknown is the degree to which the moderator, Candy Crowley, of CNN, asks follow-up questions. At the first presidential debate, Jim Lehrer of PBS did not ask many follow-up questions, while ABC’s Martha Raddatz did during the vice-presidential debate.

During Mr. Obama’s prep sessions here, aides have played the part of Hofstra audience members, asking questions that range from the investigation into the attack on the United States Mission in Benghazi, Libya, to Iran’s nuclear program to the debate on how to rein in the deficit. Senator John Kerry, a k a Mr. Romney during prep sessions, has been spotted eating pizza and walking around the grounds of the resort with a thick binder filled with color-coded spacers.

The Obama adviser David Axelrod, cellphone permanently attached to his ear, is here, as are other advisers, including Ron Klain, Anita Dunn — who is playing the part of Ms. Crowley, the moderator — and David Plouffe. To help on the foreign policy side, Ben Rhodes, a deputy on the National Security Council, and Marie Harf, a former Central Intelligence Agency spokeswoman turned campaign adviser, are on hand.

Unlike the last debate, where the focus was domestic policy, this debate will likely have a heavy foreign policy focus, and Mr. Romney is expected to go after Mr. Obama over the shifting White House story about the developments surrounding the attack in Benghazi, where four Americans, including Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens, were killed.

[Medusa]

I just watched some redux footage of the Fox News coverage of the Biden/Ryan debate where a bunch of the pundits at Fox news essentially tried to demonize Biden for laughing.

They called him "abusive", "aggressive", and "offensive" and then one of their little blond "anchors" went on some ridiculous rant about how "if Joe Biden wanted to lure in women voters, he just turned them off with his behavior" and something about how he wouldnt be part of their dating pool.

And then Sarah Palin's dumbass went on to talk about how he was a muskrat or something.

The icing on the cake? Their "Doctor" Keith Ablow actually suggested that Joe Biden might have dementia.



Like, I am so utterly AGOG that people watch this crap and think that it is "news". From armchair diagnosis (which is ridiculously unprofessional) to some sexist notion from Blondie that women won't think it's sexy that Joe Biden has opinions that he can back up with facts.

I hope that President Obama comes in and wipes the floor with Romney. I do think that Obama has to walk a fine line of dignity so that ignorant people (like the ones at Fox) don't label him "angry black man", which I'm sure they will anyway, and so that he can make his points without getting too deep in the mud.

My fingers are crossed that we see his fire.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I hope Obama is strategic and no bullshit passes him by, it's a town hall kinda debate empathy and calm factual answers and better body language will be more pleasing to the "audience".

I could be wrong

[ruffryder]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I hope Obama is strategic and no bullshit passes him by, it's a town hall kinda debate empathy and calm factual answers and better body language will be more pleasing to the "audience".

I could be wrong

I agree. I keep hearing this debate may make or break him. Romney seems to be getting the lead in more states and it is due to the debates.

[ruffryder]

I think people would rather hear (the debates and candidates) than to just listen to the BS commercials to decide who to vote for. I could be wrong too. . but for me it's true.

[ruffryder]

Does anyone know if they will be broadcasting the debates a second time or just one live time?

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by ruffryder

I agree. I keep hearing this debate may make or break him. Romney seems to be getting the lead in more states and it is due to the debates.

The repugz are working and relying on their fear instilling tactics. The older generation still can be made to panic with the mere mention of Cuba, missiles, Russia, (China).

It's been interesting how RIDICULOUS the political adds are here (The South), they are filled with this eerie gloom and doom that is not even FACTUAL.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by ruffryder

Does anyone know if they will be broadcasting the debates a second time or just one live time?

If you have Hulu you can watch them after on there.

[Martina]

Probably most major news sites will be posting it online. I watched the Veep debate after the fact.

I agree with Snow that the President's skills are better suited for this format.