Pityphuck and Michfest 2014 - Page 3

ProfPacker · 08-15-2014, 12:12 PM

I wasn't talking about safety but was talking about presentation. What I mean by this is although I am sure there are many "dongs" there is their use still exceptable within the social constructed definition that MWMF has put forth as womyn and allowed to participate in the festival.

I guess it is coming from my own experience these days that except for this community, if I tell those in my "lesbian community in NJ" that I am packing they look at me now as if I was a freak. I appreciate this is an exeriental education for us me as well as those who I guess I see as "civilians" i.e. not BF community.

Kobi · 08-15-2014, 01:05 PM

Dapper, thank you for finding the facts on what MWMF's intentions are.

Between that and the Olivia letter, this should quell the automatic reaction to denounce both as being transphobic. Their intentions are clearly outlined. Their expressed wish is that their intentions be honored.

Those who wish to fuel a fire that doesnt exist will still find something or some way to distort this.

It is also important to remember that MWMF is not a lesbian event. It is a woman event. Non lesbians have as much of/if not more of a need to heal and rejuvenate themselves. It is about women celebrating being women.

ProfPacker, it has been obvious since your arrival that you are exploring the opportunities available to you as a person. I'm glad to hear you have found a home and camaraderie in the BF community.

It would be nice if your exploration and where ever it takes you doesnt not include negativity toward the "lesbian" community for not understanding or being able to help with your journey. I dont even know what lesbians as "civilians" is supposed to mean but I'm pretty sure it isnt positive.

vagina · 08-15-2014, 02:21 PM

Awe, thank you everyone for visiting Vagina's lair

I must say that being at MichFest was such a beautiful experience for me as a womnn. I am back home and yet I'm still tripping out revisiting every single memory of the festival.

The highlights include first and foremost- all the eyecandy (Femme/Butch couples, lesbian families with daughters, all the gorgeous femmes, and the stunning butches, in fact all the women in their glory).

Second- feeling safe to go topless, bottomless, whateverless.
Third- having my whole world changed for the better by being surrounded by womnnfolk for 1 full week. 1 week of total saturation in womnn's juices.

Fourth- seeing other womnn feeling and being free.
Fifth- starting the biggest fire the Twilight Zone has seen. Literally, the zone needed a firetender, so vagina stepped up to fire up the green, wet wood.
Sixth- having the opportunity to meet Happy_Go_Lucky. She is such a brilliant, awesome and amazing person. Even during that one fight we had in Chicago

Seventh- being in anticipation for next year's festival. I just simply cannot keep my panties from being bunched up... I am just so excited to revisit Womyn's land and the FUCKING WOODS all over again.

Yesterday hanging out with a group of womnn, I discussed MichFest and found out that three of them have attended, one womnn began attending as a child with her lesbian mothers. We cracked some jokes about seeing heaven and the land of milk and honey at MichFest. My fears of dying have been assuaged as I now know what heaven beholds.

DapperButch · 08-15-2014, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kobi

Dapper, thank you for finding the facts on what MWMF's intentions are.

Between that and the Olivia letter, this should quell the automatic reaction to denounce both as being transphobic. Their intentions are clearly outlined. Their expressed wish is that their intentions be honored.

Those who wish to fuel a fire that doesnt exist will still find something or some way to distort this.

It is also important to remember that MWMF is not a lesbian event. It is a woman event. Non lesbians have as much of/if not more of a need to heal and rejuvenate themselves. It is about women celebrating being women.

ProfPacker, it has been obvious since your arrival that you are exploring the opportunities available to you as a person. I'm glad to hear you have found a home and camaraderie in the BF community.

It would be nice if your exploration and where ever it takes you doesnt not include negativity toward the "lesbian" community for not understanding or being able to help with your journey. I dont even know what lesbians as "civilians" is supposed to mean but I'm pretty sure it isnt positive.

Hey, Kobi.

It seems like you are reading my post as me saying that I do not view Vogel's event (MWMF), as transphobic. I actually didn't speak to whether or not I see her and by extension her event, as transphobic. I didn't talk about transphobia at all in my post.

Just to clarify...

ProfPacker · 08-15-2014, 04:42 PM

Kobi, I didn't mean any negativity towards the lesbian community. I was just trying to understand all that was said and also please forgive me is this new found exploration is not kind of confusing to me about a place in a lesbian community in the burbs of NJ that is very conservative, as was I. I have my own transference reaction to myself.

Thank you for stating what you were feeling so we can dialogue about this. For those who know me, that is what I cherish.

ProfPacker · 08-15-2014, 04:48 PM

re: as "civilians" I guess it is an old fashioned term that I didn't mean any ill effects with. I have to look at that but it used to be used when like those in AA or Alanon were talking to those who were not affiliated with the self determined members of AA or Alanon and those outside this group didn't know a language, i.e. packing or what it would mean.

I feel as if I am defending rather than explaining what I was feeling. People such as myself before I found BFP who were uneducated regarding some things. That's all I meant. Believe me I did not mean anything negative towards anyone.

Femmadian · 08-15-2014, 09:52 PM

I'm so envious of your Michfest buzz, vagina.

One thing I've noticed with a lot of women who recount their stories about Fest is they tend to mention feeling stronger afterwards as a result of being in that space and not having their strength (emotional, physical, intellectual, what have you) questioned during that time (at least not to the extent it is by the outside world, anyway!). Was this something you found? Did you notice a bit of a culture shock when coming back, having to readjust yourself?

As I mentioned, next year will be my first Fest (where I will be dragging my vegetarian ass out to flag down some red meat-loving, beer-swilling women in RVs, apparently, as per HGL's sage advice

), but I have had some similar experiences with women/girl only space in the past. The closest I've had to replicating Michfest was in all girls/women camping space as a kid and teen. There'd be anywhere from 50 to 300 of us plus about 10-30 counsellors/guides. I particularly loved as a kid and teen being around the older women who were there in a supervisory capacity and having access to their knowledge in such a welcoming environment. Being exposed to their different perspectives and benefiting from their wisdom was truly life changing for me as a young girl because what we talked about wasn't filtered through a mother/aunt/grandmother lens where one has always been a clear authority figure in the relationship. There was a kind of honesty and frankness to the discussions we had that, yes, sometimes had a maternal feel to them but weren't as heavily censored. As a young girl with a bit of an anti-authoritarian streak, it helped me to see the humanity of the women in my family more clearly by contrast. The whole experience can best be described as humanizing.

I bring this up because I actually think that that's one of the stronger points about Fest, the ability for young girls and women especially to see older women respected, taken seriously, as capable and willing participants in their environment (whether it's through archery or axe throwing workshops, setting up/helping with the stage, holding their own in heady discussions, etc.) and just having women visible in that way, especially older women. In my opinion, having those women seen as complete human beings goes a long way to healing this incredible fear so many of us have as women in regards to aging (which is really, really woman-specific).

People always snark and say that women and girls, young ones especially, dress for and compete with each other and maybe that's true to some extent, but I don't think it's natural (I know these are all groundbreaking thoughts for you all here, haha

). Young middle and high school age girls definitely have the reputation for being not particularly kind to one another (whether or not it's deserved) but my experience a few days in was that this mostly fell by the wayside in the absence of boys and men in favour of a gentler, more understanding, and, interestingly enough, more silly (!) space.

Women and girls are funny. Like, really funny. We don't give ourselves enough credit for just how funny we are and we don't have enough spaces to be that way without judgment or fear. I think that's one of the most consistent and interesting things I've noticed in women only spaces. It never seems to take long for the laughter to start and the jokes to fly. One of the fondest memories I had as a young girl in these camps was when we would stay up until the wee hours of the morning telling jokes and seeing who would be the first to either start snorting or crying from laughter. The woman who was assigned to our tent was an older woman named Maxine whose daughters and granddaughters had aged out of the camp but she still held on as a chaperone because she loved it so much. Maxine had a wicked, bawdy sense of humour which made her lots of fun to be around, but the best part was that we had discovered she made this funny and endearing laugh which can only be described as halfway between a wheeze and a snort. One night we were being particularly silly and gross in the way that only pre-teen girls can be and we had Maxine laughing so hard until she suddenly jumped up and had to excuse herself. We didn't know what was wrong or what had happened. We later found out through overhearing some of the women at breakfast joke that we had made her laugh so hard she peed and had to go change!

Giggles all around for our sleep deprived group! One thing which stuck out to me was that it wasn't presented as bad or something to be ashamed of. It was just understood as a thing that sometimes happens, especially after a certain age and birthing a certain number of kids, which was really nice. The girls took their cue from that and if anyone ever said anything about it being gross, I didn't hear it.

Later that afternoon, we saw that Maxine had come back from the store with a little blue package. She shouted "now I'm prepared for you girls!" and cheerfully chucked her freshly bought package of MaxiPads at one of the older girls. Our tent was forever known thereafter as the MaxiPad.

It's really quite fun to watch how everyone reacts differently to being free in a female only environment. It feels like you're catching a glimpse of something you wouldn't otherwise see, women and girls being fully human, like a little bit of that lost female genius Beauvoir talked about, eh? I can only imagine how much more so this must be evident at Michfest.

One other thing I found interesting about Fest is that so many keep mentioning "home". Is it that the actual physical space feels like home because of the mood and who's there or is it more like coming home to yourself? That's always something that's intrigued me and seems to be a recurring theme in just about every conversation about it I've been privy to!

I have to say that I really love the stories about everyone's experiences and what made Fest for them, to the decked out RVs and U-Hauls, to howling women, to Collette's many new notches on her bedpost (tent pole?), the friendships, how Fest has changed, to not feeling like such a minority as a butch or a femme. It makes my heart swell.

Can I also just say that seeing "pityphuck" show up in my CP makes me giggle every time!

C0LLETTE · 08-17-2014, 02:04 PM

One of my fondest memories : After a workshop on BDSM 101, a friend and I were invited way out into the woods ( I'm not sure the zone even had a name in those days) to witness a demonstration of "the sling". We were given "kinda " directions and told to come "around" 2 am.. Never occurred to us we'd need flashlights or that "woods" in Michigan really does mean "woods". We finally stumbled into their camp and found it all peaceful, quiet, sweetly asleep. We stamped around till someone finally popped their head out of a tent and explained that the Masochist(s) had decided it was too cold for a demo.

08-15-2014, 09:52 PM	#47
Femmadian Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Isla Nublar Posts: 385 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,296 Thanked 2,413 Times in 362 Posts Rep Power: 21474847	I'm so envious of your Michfest buzz, vagina. One thing I've noticed with a lot of women who recount their stories about Fest is they tend to mention feeling stronger afterwards as a result of being in that space and not having their strength (emotional, physical, intellectual, what have you) questioned during that time (at least not to the extent it is by the outside world, anyway!). Was this something you found? Did you notice a bit of a culture shock when coming back, having to readjust yourself? As I mentioned, next year will be my first Fest (where I will be dragging my vegetarian ass out to flag down some red meat-loving, beer-swilling women in RVs, apparently, as per HGL's sage advice ), but I have had some similar experiences with women/girl only space in the past. The closest I've had to replicating Michfest was in all girls/women camping space as a kid and teen. There'd be anywhere from 50 to 300 of us plus about 10-30 counsellors/guides. I particularly loved as a kid and teen being around the older women who were there in a supervisory capacity and having access to their knowledge in such a welcoming environment. Being exposed to their different perspectives and benefiting from their wisdom was truly life changing for me as a young girl because what we talked about wasn't filtered through a mother/aunt/grandmother lens where one has always been a clear authority figure in the relationship. There was a kind of honesty and frankness to the discussions we had that, yes, sometimes had a maternal feel to them but weren't as heavily censored. As a young girl with a bit of an anti-authoritarian streak, it helped me to see the humanity of the women in my family more clearly by contrast. The whole experience can best be described as humanizing. I bring this up because I actually think that that's one of the stronger points about Fest, the ability for young girls and women especially to see older women respected, taken seriously, as capable and willing participants in their environment (whether it's through archery or axe throwing workshops, setting up/helping with the stage, holding their own in heady discussions, etc.) and just having women visible in that way, especially older women. In my opinion, having those women seen as complete human beings goes a long way to healing this incredible fear so many of us have as women in regards to aging (which is really, really woman-specific). People always snark and say that women and girls, young ones especially, dress for and compete with each other and maybe that's true to some extent, but I don't think it's natural (I know these are all groundbreaking thoughts for you all here, haha ). Young middle and high school age girls definitely have the reputation for being not particularly kind to one another (whether or not it's deserved) but my experience a few days in was that this mostly fell by the wayside in the absence of boys and men in favour of a gentler, more understanding, and, interestingly enough, more silly (!) space. Women and girls are funny. Like, really funny. We don't give ourselves enough credit for just how funny we are and we don't have enough spaces to be that way without judgment or fear. I think that's one of the most consistent and interesting things I've noticed in women only spaces. It never seems to take long for the laughter to start and the jokes to fly. One of the fondest memories I had as a young girl in these camps was when we would stay up until the wee hours of the morning telling jokes and seeing who would be the first to either start snorting or crying from laughter. The woman who was assigned to our tent was an older woman named Maxine whose daughters and granddaughters had aged out of the camp but she still held on as a chaperone because she loved it so much. Maxine had a wicked, bawdy sense of humour which made her lots of fun to be around, but the best part was that we had discovered she made this funny and endearing laugh which can only be described as halfway between a wheeze and a snort. One night we were being particularly silly and gross in the way that only pre-teen girls can be and we had Maxine laughing so hard until she suddenly jumped up and had to excuse herself. We didn't know what was wrong or what had happened. We later found out through overhearing some of the women at breakfast joke that we had made her laugh so hard she peed and had to go change! Giggles all around for our sleep deprived group! One thing which stuck out to me was that it wasn't presented as bad or something to be ashamed of. It was just understood as a thing that sometimes happens, especially after a certain age and birthing a certain number of kids, which was really nice. The girls took their cue from that and if anyone ever said anything about it being gross, I didn't hear it. Later that afternoon, we saw that Maxine had come back from the store with a little blue package. She shouted "now I'm prepared for you girls!" and cheerfully chucked her freshly bought package of MaxiPads at one of the older girls. Our tent was forever known thereafter as the MaxiPad. It's really quite fun to watch how everyone reacts differently to being free in a female only environment. It feels like you're catching a glimpse of something you wouldn't otherwise see, women and girls being fully human, like a little bit of that lost female genius Beauvoir talked about, eh? I can only imagine how much more so this must be evident at Michfest. One other thing I found interesting about Fest is that so many keep mentioning "home". Is it that the actual physical space feels like home because of the mood and who's there or is it more like coming home to yourself? That's always something that's intrigued me and seems to be a recurring theme in just about every conversation about it I've been privy to! I have to say that I really love the stories about everyone's experiences and what made Fest for them, to the decked out RVs and U-Hauls, to howling women, to Collette's many new notches on her bedpost (tent pole?), the friendships, how Fest has changed, to not feeling like such a minority as a butch or a femme. It makes my heart swell. Can I also just say that seeing "pityphuck" show up in my CP makes me giggle every time! __________________

08-15-2014, 12:12 PM	#41
ProfPacker Member How Do You Identify?: butch/MOC Preferred Pronoun?: Hy/hym/hys but in circumstances like work and some other places she Relationship Status: single Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: nj Posts: 1,365 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 7,023 Thanked 4,816 Times in 1,187 Posts Rep Power: 21474848	I wasn't talking about safety but was talking about presentation. What I mean by this is although I am sure there are many "dongs" there is their use still exceptable within the social constructed definition that MWMF has put forth as womyn and allowed to participate in the festival. I guess it is coming from my own experience these days that except for this community, if I tell those in my "lesbian community in NJ" that I am packing they look at me now as if I was a freak. I appreciate this is an exeriental education for us me as well as those who I guess I see as "civilians" i.e. not BF community.

08-15-2014, 01:05 PM	#42
Kobi Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Biological female. Lesbian. Relationship Status: Happy Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Hanging out in the Atlantic. Posts: 9,234 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,840 Thanked 34,661 Times in 7,652 Posts Rep Power: 21474860	Dapper, thank you for finding the facts on what MWMF's intentions are. Between that and the Olivia letter, this should quell the automatic reaction to denounce both as being transphobic. Their intentions are clearly outlined. Their expressed wish is that their intentions be honored. Those who wish to fuel a fire that doesnt exist will still find something or some way to distort this. It is also important to remember that MWMF is not a lesbian event. It is a woman event. Non lesbians have as much of/if not more of a need to heal and rejuvenate themselves. It is about women celebrating being women. ProfPacker, it has been obvious since your arrival that you are exploring the opportunities available to you as a person. I'm glad to hear you have found a home and camaraderie in the BF community. It would be nice if your exploration and where ever it takes you doesnt not include negativity toward the "lesbian" community for not understanding or being able to help with your journey. I dont even know what lesbians as "civilians" is supposed to mean but I'm pretty sure it isnt positive.

08-15-2014, 02:21 PM	#43
vagina Timed Out - Permanent How Do You Identify?: Lesbian Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Lesboville Posts: 183 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 440 Thanked 446 Times in 111 Posts Rep Power: 0	Awe, thank you everyone for visiting Vagina's lair I must say that being at MichFest was such a beautiful experience for me as a womnn. I am back home and yet I'm still tripping out revisiting every single memory of the festival. The highlights include first and foremost- all the eyecandy (Femme/Butch couples, lesbian families with daughters, all the gorgeous femmes, and the stunning butches, in fact all the women in their glory). Second- feeling safe to go topless, bottomless, whateverless. Third- having my whole world changed for the better by being surrounded by womnnfolk for 1 full week. 1 week of total saturation in womnn's juices. Fourth- seeing other womnn feeling and being free. Fifth- starting the biggest fire the Twilight Zone has seen. Literally, the zone needed a firetender, so vagina stepped up to fire up the green, wet wood. Sixth- having the opportunity to meet Happy_Go_Lucky. She is such a brilliant, awesome and amazing person. Even during that one fight we had in Chicago Seventh- being in anticipation for next year's festival. I just simply cannot keep my panties from being bunched up... I am just so excited to revisit Womyn's land and the FUCKING WOODS all over again. Yesterday hanging out with a group of womnn, I discussed MichFest and found out that three of them have attended, one womnn began attending as a child with her lesbian mothers. We cracked some jokes about seeing heaven and the land of milk and honey at MichFest. My fears of dying have been assuaged as I now know what heaven beholds.

08-15-2014, 04:42 PM	#45
ProfPacker Member How Do You Identify?: butch/MOC Preferred Pronoun?: Hy/hym/hys but in circumstances like work and some other places she Relationship Status: single Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: nj Posts: 1,365 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 7,023 Thanked 4,816 Times in 1,187 Posts Rep Power: 21474848	Kobi, I didn't mean any negativity towards the lesbian community. I was just trying to understand all that was said and also please forgive me is this new found exploration is not kind of confusing to me about a place in a lesbian community in the burbs of NJ that is very conservative, as was I. I have my own transference reaction to myself. Thank you for stating what you were feeling so we can dialogue about this. For those who know me, that is what I cherish.

08-15-2014, 04:48 PM	#46
ProfPacker Member How Do You Identify?: butch/MOC Preferred Pronoun?: Hy/hym/hys but in circumstances like work and some other places she Relationship Status: single Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: nj Posts: 1,365 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 7,023 Thanked 4,816 Times in 1,187 Posts Rep Power: 21474848	re: as "civilians" I guess it is an old fashioned term that I didn't mean any ill effects with. I have to look at that but it used to be used when like those in AA or Alanon were talking to those who were not affiliated with the self determined members of AA or Alanon and those outside this group didn't know a language, i.e. packing or what it would mean. I feel as if I am defending rather than explaining what I was feeling. People such as myself before I found BFP who were uneducated regarding some things. That's all I meant. Believe me I did not mean anything negative towards anyone.

08-17-2014, 02:04 PM	#48
C0LLETTE Practically Lives Here How Do You Identify?: Depends on the day. Preferred Pronoun?: "I" and "we" Relationship Status: Very good. Thank you for asking. Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Canada Posts: 11,501 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 16,676 Thanked 15,262 Times in 4,345 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	One of my fondest memories : After a workshop on BDSM 101, a friend and I were invited way out into the woods ( I'm not sure the zone even had a name in those days) to witness a demonstration of "the sling". We were given "kinda " directions and told to come "around" 2 am.. Never occurred to us we'd need flashlights or that "woods" in Michigan really does mean "woods". We finally stumbled into their camp and found it all peaceful, quiet, sweetly asleep. We stamped around till someone finally popped their head out of a tent and explained that the Masochist(s) had decided it was too cold for a demo.