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Old 09-06-2013, 11:31 PM   #21
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I do see a fair number of twenty-somethings not doing well out there and returning home for reasons not primarily related to the economy or to serious mental or physical health issues.

Some of it, IMO, is the result of the different parenting styles that have prevailed for the last few decades. Parents and kids are a lot more involved with one another, and kids do depend on parents for more. Basically too much modeling and assisting, too much oversight, on the parent's part, and not enough trial and error on the child's part.

When I was growing up, unless kids were struggling in school, their parents barely knew what their homework was -- unless there was a major project, particularly one parents had to fork over some cash for.

It hasn't been as safe for kids to be as independent either. Or it has been recognized that it never was that safe for kids to be out and about on their own. At the same time, there are studies that show that unsupervised play is extremely important for development of executive function in children -- exactly what so many twenty-somethings seem to lack.

Also, imaginative social play is much better at developing executive function, especially regulation of emotions and self-discipline, than playing computer games and watching TV.

Then environmental health factors that increase anxiety and depression could play a role. Chronic low level anxiety and depression may not end up getting treated and can really affect brain development. Anxiety can be a factor in executive function deficits, as can PTSD and ADHD. In fact, ADHD and executive function deficits are strongly associated. Whatever affects memory and concentration can result in executive function deficits.

And then there is the whole gut-brain thing. The recent study about thin people having a more diverse population of bacteria in their gut is a piece of scientific evidence supporting what is still an alternative medicine theory. As someone with IBS, anxiety and depression, I am a believer. And this may be in part caused by the western diet -- and not just eating poorly, but eating foods like very high gluten wheat, which all of ours is now.

And just stress. Stress alone can cause kids to not learn to cope. Also lack of exercise can contribute. And we are clearly a more sedentary society with every generation.

All this stuff can make it less likely for children to develop executive function skills -- self-discipline, organization, problem-solving, planning, emotional self-regulation, ability to learn from past mistakes, and flexibility (being less thrown and upset by change, in particular).

And to be still developing these well into adulthood, when the consequences for mistakes are much more serious and when expectations are much higher, is tough, tough on everybody. There needs to be more support out there for people over 18 still struggling.

Again, I am grateful for the Affordable Care Act. At least more young people still struggling can continue to be covered by their parents' insurance (already in place) or can get insurance on their own. That will make life less scary. I wish our health care system were more responsive to developmental issues though.
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Old 09-07-2013, 12:06 AM   #22
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Wow Martina! I so appreciate your perspective as an educator. There are two sides to this coin. I grew up in the 70s and as you said my parents did not help with homework and were the opposite of helicopter parents! I was doing more things at my daughter's age than I can even imagine her doing. Leaving the house all day on Saturdays with a group of girls and taking the bus all over. Walking for hours without *gasp* a cell phone. My Mom had no idea where I was or what I was doing!

Flip side...I had OCD at age 10 and knew something was very wrong and never said squat to my parents. I was sexually abused and exposed to a flasher (so 70s!) AT SCHOOL when I was in the 4th grade.

My kid has OCD. Finally her Dad has agreed to get her the help she needs. Thank G-d she won't be 42 years old and still flailing about trying to figure out what the hell is wrong with her! My life changed dramatically when I was finally properly diagnosed.

I think we need a blend of the old school parenting and the new school parenting. It is hard to do when all your kid's friends have helicopter parents.

I hope my daughter will not come back to live with me. Not because I don't love her a lot but because I want her to live her own life.

The connection to anxiety and depression and learning is huge. Thank you for bringing that up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Martina View Post
I do see a fair number of twenty-somethings not doing well out there and returning home for reasons not primarily related to the economy or to serious mental or physical health issues.

Some of it, IMO, is the result of the different parenting styles that have prevailed for the last few decades. Parents and kids are a lot more involved with one another, and kids do depend on parents for more. Basically too much modeling and assisting, too much oversight, on the parent's part, and not enough trial and error on the child's part.

When I was growing up, unless kids were struggling in school, their parents barely knew what their homework was -- unless there was a major project, particularly one parents had to fork over some cash for.

It hasn't been as safe for kids to be as independent either. Or it has been recognized that it never was that safe for kids to be out and about on their own. At the same time, there are studies that show that unsupervised play is extremely important for development of executive function in children -- exactly what so many twenty-somethings seem to lack.

Also, imaginative social play is much better at developing executive function, especially regulation of emotions and self-discipline, than playing computer games and watching TV.

Then environmental health factors that increase anxiety and depression could play a role. Chronic low level anxiety and depression may not end up getting treated and can really affect brain development. Anxiety can be a factor in executive function deficits, as can PTSD and ADHD. In fact, ADHD and executive function deficits are strongly associated. Whatever affects memory and concentration can result in executive function deficits.

And then there is the whole gut-brain thing. The recent study about thin people having a more diverse population of bacteria in their gut is a piece of scientific evidence supporting what is still an alternative medicine theory. As someone with IBS, anxiety and depression, I am a believer. And this may be in part caused by the western diet -- and not just eating poorly, but eating foods like very high gluten wheat, which all of ours is now.

And just stress. Stress alone can cause kids to not learn to cope. Also lack of exercise can contribute. And we are clearly a more sedentary society with every generation.

All this stuff can make it less likely for children to develop executive function skills -- self-discipline, organization, problem-solving, planning, emotional self-regulation, ability to learn from past mistakes, and flexibility (being less thrown and upset by change, in particular).

And to be still developing these well into adulthood, when the consequences for mistakes are much more serious and when expectations are much higher, is tough, tough on everybody. There needs to be more support out there for people over 18 still struggling.

Again, I am grateful for the Affordable Care Act. At least more young people still struggling can continue to be covered by their parents' insurance (already in place) or can get insurance on their own. That will make life less scary. I wish our health care system were more responsive to developmental issues though.
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Old 09-07-2013, 12:51 AM   #23
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Back when I had my house. I had several times this happened.

I told my children to make sure they kept up whatever space they were in
Help with house chores to lighten my load.
Take turns making dinner and meals.
If they had children, Then to make sure al soiled laundry and diapers were taken care of.
I also asked for a bill to be taken care of.
And that money from each check while working was to go into a bank account or to me to save so that they could become self sufficient quicker.
As far as child sitting..I assisted of course. But I did not allow them to take advantage of that. "Unless I chose to of course."

If they had no job at the time, it was set that they would be looking strongly monday thru friday untill one was found.
Also that they would not have company over unless it was agreed on by all involved.

The trick is to keep it as calm and normal as possible,
And to respect each others personal time and space.

Not every time was so calm but for the most part, things ran smooth.

Also we decided that if there was an issue, no one would set on it. It would be brought to the table and handled.

As for times in and out. The only issue I had was respecting my sleep/quiet time.
That is very important to me so it is something I was very stern on.
Having understanding that they were an adult also helped that. So long as they were very quiet late night.
And that if they chose to party etc., That it was done later in the evening when all was done and preferably on the weekend when it didn't get in the wy of work or school.

But on the flip side, it was also a great time to re-conncet on a deeper level for a bit.
Sometimes this didnt happen but I tried very hard to use the time to build great relationships with them.
It also gave me quality time with my grandbabies.

There were times this wasn't so peachy but eventually we worked things out.

This wasn't a;ways easy but it was worth it to see my children secure, safe and progressing.

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Old 09-07-2013, 07:11 AM   #24
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Martina, thanks for this excellent, excellent post. I think that you really hit the nail on the head when you spoke to poor executive functioning:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Martina View Post

All this stuff can make it less likely for children to develop executive function skills -- self-discipline, organization, problem-solving, planning, emotional self-regulation, ability to learn from past mistakes, and flexibility (being less thrown and upset by change, in particular).
I think the above is really what we aren't seeing in our early 20 year olds. I know that for me the self discipline and learning from past mistakes (and a sense of consequences), is what has been most concerning about our son, D.

You really are spot on with the above Martina.

Kids don't have to fail anymore, we grab them before they fall. Every kid gets a trophy. We don't give our children the opportunity to learn consequences. Even if the parents do well at allowing the consequences to happen at home, schools and recreational activities pick up the ball and don't let kids fail. Hell, if they don't, the parents attack them about it!

So, as Martina said, they have to learn through BIG adult lessons instead of the small ones they would experience as a child. They fail out of college because their high school teacher (often at parent's urging), didn't give them that F in English class that they deserved.

It is sad to think that what we do in "love" and what we do thinking it will improve self confidence and self esteem, can actually cripple our children instead. I will have to find the article I read that spoke about this.

Great discussion folks.
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Old 09-07-2013, 07:14 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Pamela View Post
Back when I had my house. I had several times this happened.

I told my children to make sure they kept up whatever space they were in
Help with house chores to lighten my load.
Take turns making dinner and meals.
If they had children, Then to make sure al soiled laundry and diapers were taken care of.
I also asked for a bill to be taken care of.
And that money from each check while working was to go into a bank account or to me to save so that they could become self sufficient quicker.
As far as child sitting..I assisted of course. But I did not allow them to take advantage of that. "Unless I chose to of course."

If they had no job at the time, it was set that they would be looking strongly monday thru friday untill one was found.
Also that they would not have company over unless it was agreed on by all involved.

The trick is to keep it as calm and normal as possible,
And to respect each others personal time and space.

Not every time was so calm but for the most part, things ran smooth.

Also we decided that if there was an issue, no one would set on it. It would be brought to the table and handled.

As for times in and out. The only issue I had was respecting my sleep/quiet time.
That is very important to me so it is something I was very stern on.
Having understanding that they were an adult also helped that. So long as they were very quiet late night.
And that if they chose to party etc., That it was done later in the evening when all was done and preferably on the weekend when it didn't get in the wy of work or school.

But on the flip side, it was also a great time to re-conncet on a deeper level for a bit.
Sometimes this didnt happen but I tried very hard to use the time to build great relationships with them.
It also gave me quality time with my grandbabies.

There were times this wasn't so peachy but eventually we worked things out.

This wasn't a;ways easy but it was worth it to see my children secure, safe and progressing.

Pam, I really like the way you handed things when they were home. It sounds like you set it up where they had guidelines one might have with a child or an employee, but at the same time you operated with them on an adult to adult level. If that makes sense.
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Old 09-07-2013, 08:50 AM   #26
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thank you for all the encouragement and opinions...I don't mind helping my partners children...or my children...that is what parents are for...but I guess the problem is that I feel like my children are not as welcome in my home as her children...as most of you know teens are very territorial...and since my partners children are the ones living in the home with us...my children kind of get treated like "step children" this is what upsets me....I hope that clarifies things...

there are times I get very upset and we argue and fight...and it brings me to tears thinking about it...

the youngest has 2 more years of college and I don't know if I can do this....I never see my son...and I rarely see my daughter unless I am going to get my hair done...it is very hard....
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Old 09-07-2013, 08:51 AM   #27
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Default From a twenty something & slight derail...

I want to call into question some things that are being said in this particular thread.

First, I would like to point out that the education system has failed my generation in many ways. I, personally, don't believe in the whole self esteem movement --in terms of children not failing, taking exams, etc. But I would also say that the other fundamental problem of education in the 90s/2000s --was it became normal for people to pay for training in whatever form-- *at their own expense*

It's easy for the baby boomers and the generation after to point fingers at my generation, saying its our fault that we are underemployed or whatever twist on it they would like to call it. The reality is twentysomethings are faced with a job crunch two fold. Baby boomers are staying working longer (for many reasons) & we are forced to shell out massive amounts of money to get advanced education for even entry level jobs. It used to be possible to start at the bottom and work your way into training, experience and security. Ha!!!! I've applied for entry level jobs that REQUIRED a 4 year degree that the starting wage was laughable. Job security is a thing of the past. Company loyalty is almost nonexistent because we saw our parents get laid off from companies that they had worked for after 10,15, 20+ years. We know uncertainty, because it happened to us.

It is not unheard of to spend tens of thousands to get a trades education--never heard of in previous generations! Companies used to PAY their tradespeople to get certified. Now pay for it yourself, and be unemployed for your 8 months of school!
Want to be a professional? Better be ready to pay 1/3 of your salary for the next 10 years for those two or three degrees.

Remember when there were massive cuts in the 80s and 90s and 00s to primary education and advanced education? Hello Reaganomics & that little ballon of government debt for two wars? Not to mention the looming retirement crisis? Last I checked those cuts benefited previous generations, not mine.


Yeah, those are only some of the reasons that college educated twentysomethings are having a hard time finding jobs.
Those of us that are LUCKY enough to finish post secondary education end up taking less than stellar jobs after university and are saddled with hefty student loan debt.

My generation was told to work hard in school. Go to university. Get a good job.

But it wasn't all flowers and roses afterwards-- please keep that in mind before you paint us all with the same brush. We were freshly minted graduates when that big ole recession hit.

I'd rather talk about some of the real reasons unemployment (and the after effect of moving back in with your parents) is so high for my generation--- lack of training by corporations passing the buck on to the worker for higher profits, real working wages, disappearance of unions, the student loan bubble , debt in society, the list keeps growing...

--a girl who had to move back in with mommy temporarily after university to survive.
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Old 09-07-2013, 10:25 AM   #28
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Hi, stepfordfemme!

I am really glad that you joined the thread. I don't think there is a thing you said in your post I would argue.

For clarification, I was speaking to adult children who were not seeking out education, are not actively looking for work that could result in sustaining themselves outside of their parents home, and/or are not contributing to the home financially when they are able to. Completely different than what you are talking about. I believe that this is what others in the thread were speaking to, as well, unless otherwise noted (such as Martina's post).

To help with context, did you go to grade/high school in Canada and is that where you live now?
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Old 09-07-2013, 11:28 AM   #29
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Not at all a derail stepfordfemme. I agree completely. It's an entirely different world than when I was coming up.
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Old 09-07-2013, 11:40 AM   #30
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Not at all a derail stepfordfemme. I agree completely. It's an entirely different world than when I was coming up.
Totally appreciated your comments in one of your earlier posts as well.
It's hard to quote every point from previous --that it is a failing of the education system at times.

It takes a lot of humility sometimes for people to ask for help from family.

My personal experience was temporary, but I have several friends post degree that haven't had their lucky break to leave the nest due to their student loan debt. My university roomie pursued her passion in the fine arts-- but now she is working two part time jobs and running an online business from her parents place to A) do what she loves B) pay what she owes.

I'm not saying that we all made wise decisions in our degrees or our choices, but the return to nest is often a necessary evil.
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Old 09-07-2013, 12:03 PM   #31
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Hi, stepfordfemme!

I am really glad that you joined the thread. I don't think there is a thing you said in your post I would argue.

For clarification, I was speaking to adult children who were not seeking out education, are not actively looking for work that could result in sustaining themselves outside of their parents home, and/or are not contributing to the home financially when they are able to. Completely different than what you are talking about. I believe that this is what others in the thread were speaking to, as well, unless otherwise noted (such as Martina's post).

To help with context, did you go to grade/high school in Canada and is that where you live now?
It was your post that was actually my starting point, so I'm glad you responded.

I think it is important to contribute to a household- in whatever form. But here is where households get blurry at times. If parents do not treat their children as "tenants" are children automatically responsible to pay them rent?
I think that is the point where children and adults need to have discussions around what the expectations are of them living in the household as adults.
It's a negotiation that goes both ways. If it's a free ride-- it's a choice of the house owners. It is no different than relationships when one partner foots bills and the other can be perceived as a big mooch. It's an enabler and a user relationship. No one likes to be taken for granted.

I personally do not view that as a generational issue and that's where my concern came from with the description of the "twentysomethings"


For context, I am Canadian. I attended public schools, equivalent to what is a "state school" university, and one private school (post degree- paid for by working two low paying jobs, my own blood sweat and tears money). I am debt free --because I took a career path that paid well, completely unrelated to what I want to do. I am right now working on going back for a graduate level degree which I'll end up borrowing for, to do what I love. I gave up and worked incredibly hard for the majority of my twenties to pay back for my undergrad.

When I graduated I was lucky enough that my mother (who did not actively contribute to my education due to low income and later permanent disability)-- offered me a temporary situation to get a nest egg built up so I could move to more feasible place to find employment. I moved to a big city and here I am. My mom kicked me out at one point in high school for being queer. We don't see eye to eye, but I gritted my teeth and took her help.



I think the next ten to twenty years will be interesting for us all. There was an interesting article that I read discussing the sandwich generation. Where inter generational housing situations will become the norm. I wish I could find to link at the moment because it would be a great point to continue discussion. In summary, there is and will continue to be a group that will have their parents and children living all under one roof---to due prohibitive costs of home ownership and facilities for seniors who need constant care.

Many retirees will also be looking for help when they are going into retirement with debt and are forced to stop working. I hope that their children will be able to find themselves better off in terms of responsibility and financially to help their parents out.

Great discussion!
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Old 09-07-2013, 12:14 PM   #32
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I am a sandwich child. My siblings and I just spent the last year taking care of our Mom during her terminal illness and raising our own kids.

It is so funny that you mention that because in my post I said I hope my daughter does not come to live with me but then I was thinking when you posted that well she better take me in!

I do though as a parent believe that my number one priority is to take care of my own retirement so that my daughter won't have to.



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It was your post that was actually my starting point, so I'm glad you responded.

I think it is important to contribute to a household- in whatever form. But here is where households get blurry at times. If parents do not treat their children as "tenants" are children automatically responsible to pay them rent?
I think that is the point where children and adults need to have discussions around what the expectations are of them living in the household as adults.
It's a negotiation that goes both ways. If it's a free ride-- it's a choice of the house owners. It is no different than relationships when one partner foots bills and the other can be perceived as a big mooch. It's an enabler and a user relationship. No one likes to be taken for granted.

I personally do not view that as a generational issue and that's where my concern came from with the description of the "twentysomethings"


For context, I am Canadian. I attended public schools, equivalent to what is a "state school" university, and one private school (post degree- paid for by working two low paying jobs, my own blood sweat and tears money). I am debt free --because I took a career path that paid well, completely unrelated to what I want to do. I am right now working on going back for a graduate level degree which I'll end up borrowing for, to do what I love. I gave up and worked incredibly hard for the majority of my twenties to pay back for my undergrad.

When I graduated I was lucky enough that my mother (who did not actively contribute to my education due to low income and later permanent disability)-- offered me a temporary situation to get a nest egg built up so I could move to more feasible place to find employment. I moved to a big city and here I am. My mom kicked me out at one point in high school for being queer. We don't see eye to eye, but I gritted my teeth and took her help.



I think the next ten to twenty years will be interesting for us all. There was an interesting article that I read discussing the sandwich generation. Where inter generational housing situations will become the norm. I wish I could find to link at the moment because it would be a great point to continue discussion. In summary, there is and will continue to be a group that will have their parents and children living all under one roof---to due prohibitive costs of home ownership and facilities for seniors who need constant care.

Many retirees will also be looking for help when they are going into retirement with debt and are forced to stop working. I hope that their children will be able to find themselves better off in terms of responsibility and financially to help their parents out.

Great discussion!
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Old 09-07-2013, 12:29 PM   #33
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I do though as a parent believe that my number one priority is to take care of my own retirement so that my daughter won't have to.
This is another topic I have been reading a bit about in the financial magazines. As stepfordfemme noted, the cost of college is ridiculously high now. Historically, parents (for those that were able), typically tried to save for both retirement and pay for their children's education costs. With the crazy high costs of education (and the 2008 stock market drop where many lost half their retirement savings), this is no longer possible.

The question is, would your child prefer you pay for their college and then move in with them when you retire? Or would they prefer you cover your retirement and not live with them during retirement?

Right now the trend is towards parents putting every dime into paying for their children's college and not funding their retirement. The economy/advice experts are suggesting that parents fund their retirement first and then give to the kids what they can for college.
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Old 09-07-2013, 06:58 PM   #34
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I was lucky enough that my oldest boy paid for his schooling as he went along while his wife took out loans and her family helped her. She has a lot of debt, and because he lived at home for many years while he worked and paid off his debts, my son has very few. She also has a better job as a physical therapist and he's an accountant.

My daughter was a 4.3 average in H.S. and took out a few loans while going through her first four years of University. She graduated with honors in the field of astrophysics, and was offered a free ride and a thirty thousand dollar a year stipend at John Hopkins while she got her Masters and she's finishing her Doctorate. All she had to do was teach school during that time. She's taken a bit of loans out via credit cards to cover some costs because Baltimore is so expensive, but all in all, she's not doing badly.

When I became disabled, both kids came home immediately. While they were here they helped out and did some clean up for me. I felt more than embarrassed because I'm usually the one that runs everything. I was very comforted though.

My daughter and son spoke at great lengths, when she finishes getting her Doctorate she wants to buy a larger house for me and my wife and all of our pet-family to move in with her, but first she wants to stay here with us while she takes some time off of academia and does something for herself for a while. I suggested maybe doing something like hiking across Europe or maybe taking a year off and teaching on a reservation, or working on a ranch. Anything that will let her unwind and work off the stress of academia.

My kids grew up with me working two jobs to make sure they had what they wanted, even sending them money if they needed it, however I could get it. They are proud of me, they tell me often, and I'm proud of them. School debt is terrible, I'd love to be able to pay my daughters off. She's worked hard to get where she is, and the free ride the last few years has been a big fat help. No matter what happens, I know that if they come home to live with me, or if I go to live with them, it's what we all want.
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Old 09-07-2013, 09:47 PM   #35
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I was lucky enough that my oldest boy paid for his schooling as he went along while his wife took out loans and her family helped her. She has a lot of debt, and because he lived at home for many years while he worked and paid off his debts, my son has very few. She also has a better job as a physical therapist and he's an accountant.

My daughter was a 4.3 average in H.S. and took out a few loans while going through her first four years of University. She graduated with honors in the field of astrophysics, and was offered a free ride and a thirty thousand dollar a year stipend at John Hopkins while she got her Masters and she's finishing her Doctorate. All she had to do was teach school during that time. She's taken a bit of loans out via credit cards to cover some costs because Baltimore is so expensive, but all in all, she's not doing badly.

When I became disabled, both kids came home immediately. While they were here they helped out and did some clean up for me. I felt more than embarrassed because I'm usually the one that runs everything. I was very comforted though.

My daughter and son spoke at great lengths, when she finishes getting her Doctorate she wants to buy a larger house for me and my wife and all of our pet-family to move in with her, but first she wants to stay here with us while she takes some time off of academia and does something for herself for a while. I suggested maybe doing something like hiking across Europe or maybe taking a year off and teaching on a reservation, or working on a ranch. Anything that will let her unwind and work off the stress of academia.

My kids grew up with me working two jobs to make sure they had what they wanted, even sending them money if they needed it, however I could get it. They are proud of me, they tell me often, and I'm proud of them. School debt is terrible, I'd love to be able to pay my daughters off. She's worked hard to get where she is, and the free ride the last few years has been a big fat help. No matter what happens, I know that if they come home to live with me, or if I go to live with them, it's what we all want.
This is a great story. Thanks for sharing about your kids.
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Old 09-07-2013, 09:53 PM   #36
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I don't have kids but I think the ideal home would be a multi-occupant dwelling with both private and shared areas, good sound proofing and not-necessarily-large, but well ventilated, quiet, both sunny and shady outdoor space, and some kind of consensus process about who is admitted as tenants leave and their space is filled by someone else.

I could see parents and their adult kids living in this kind of habitat.

(Okay, dubious way to weasel into this discussion. But the discussion triggered it.)
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Old 09-07-2013, 10:08 PM   #37
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This is another topic I have been reading a bit about in the financial magazines. As stepfordfemme noted, the cost of college is ridiculously high now.

...

Right now the trend is towards parents putting every dime into paying for their children's college and not funding their retirement. The economy/advice experts are suggesting that parents fund their retirement first and then give to the kids what they can for college.

Public colleges and universities are still affordable and even though the interest rate on college loans just went up a little, it's still about half the interest most loans incur.

I work in a college where over half the students attend tuition-free because they income qualify. Most of the rest benefit from some kind of scholarship fund and even those who pay full tuition pay only about $4,000 a year.

Start at a community college and save money on your transferable, intro- level classes. Transfer to a public university and meanwhile, research what kind of merit fellowships are out there as you gain credibility with a high GPA and the other stuff you accrue—a record of public service, etc.

Anyway that's what I recommend for people entering college. Unless of course they get some kind of incredible deal at a private college right at the start, based on their remarkable high school record and often, ethnic identity.

My point is, families don't have to lose their savings to put their kids through college. I never knew that till I fell ass backwards into fellowships and later, worked in a public university system.
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Old 09-08-2013, 07:27 AM   #38
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Public colleges and universities are still affordable and even though the interest rate on college loans just went up a little, it's still about half the interest most loans incur.

I work in a college where over half the students attend tuition-free because they income qualify. Most of the rest benefit from some kind of scholarship fund and even those who pay full tuition pay only about $4,000 a year.

Start at a community college and save money on your transferable, intro- level classes. Transfer to a public university and meanwhile, research what kind of merit fellowships are out there as you gain credibility with a high GPA and the other stuff you accrue—a record of public service, etc.

Anyway that's what I recommend for people entering college. Unless of course they get some kind of incredible deal at a private college right at the start, based on their remarkable high school record and often, ethnic identity.

My point is, families don't have to lose their savings to put their kids through college. I never knew that till I fell ass backwards into fellowships and later, worked in a public university system.
IslandScout, do you work at a community college or a college/university?

I agree about going to community college first. Our son (TF's son), was successful in getting a deal with our local university. Although his classes were held at the local community college, he was a university student. After two years he would receive a liberal arts associates degree from the university. As long as he kept his grades to a C, he would transfer to the "main campus" and finish out his Bachelor's degree. To boot, the associates degree is paid for by the State, as long as you keep your grades at a high C. If not, you are only looking at $4,000/year.

The State will also pick up the tab for the community college students (for a two year degree in whatever they choose, I think). For both programs, the requirment is that you must go right out of high school. It is pretty freaking amazing.

And yes, when I made the statement about college funding/retirement funding, I was speaking about parents with children who went straight to 4 year schools, not those who started at community colleges.
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Old 09-08-2013, 07:43 AM   #39
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I agree about going to community college first. Our son (TF's son), was successful in getting a deal with our local university. Although his classes were held at the local community college, he was a university student. After two years he would receive a liberal arts associates degree from the university. As long as he kept his grades to a C, he would transfer to the "main campus" and finish out his Bachelor's degree. To boot, the associates degree is paid for by the State, as long as you keep your grades at a high C. If not, you are only looking at $4,000/year.

The State will also pick up the tab for the community college students (for a two year degree in whatever they choose, I think). For both programs, the requirment is that you must go right out of high school. It is pretty freaking amazing.

And yes, when I made the statement about college funding/retirement funding, I was speaking about parents with children who went straight to 4 year schools, not those who started at community colleges.

That's really great, Dapper. Oftentimes, kids get better academic supervision and mentoring at community colleges. And the cc's that are part of a large university system are protected from becoming workforce development factories and continue to develop their liberal arts offerings. Also, professors at "good" community colleges encourage students to compete in things and attend conferences that are traditionally dominated by 4-year schools.

And in the end, it's the bachelor's degree and beyond that matters, IMO.
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Old 09-08-2013, 08:05 AM   #40
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That's really great, Dapper. Oftentimes, kids get better academic supervision and mentoring at community colleges. And the cc's that are part of a large university system are protected from becoming workforce development factories and continue to develop their liberal arts offerings. Also, professors at "good" community colleges encourage students to compete in things and attend conferences that are traditionally dominated by 4-year schools.

And in the end, it's the bachelor's degree and beyond that matters, IMO.
Yes, it is the bachelor's degree that matter, for certain. I also saw the mentoring that you speak of where TF's son was going. Excellent professors. It was a really interesting situation where they were University professors (employees of the local university), nestled within a community college. I understand the community college professors are excellent as well.

ETA: I realize my posts could be confusing as I am posting in a different area on the site about how TF's son is leaving for boot camp tomorrow. Although D was in the above program, he did not continue on that path. He was in it for one year (last year).
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