Fix and then Pass the Healthcare Bill

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Toughy

Without campaign finance reform......our choices are as follows (pick all that apply):

• do nothing
• allow health care financing to continue as a for-profit entity that is subsidized by tax dollars
• change health insurance financing to be a not-for-profit entity (it was that way when I was a kid)
• medicare for all at 55 yrs (and eventually for all despite age) and if under the current system, pay bunches more of tax dollars to big pharma and big health insurance
• overhaul how we finance healthcare and institute a single payer system along the lines of the VA system.

If you think big pharma and big health insurance will loose this battle......I would suggest you look at how we finance elections......money talks....

The first change to be made is how election campaigns are financed. All political campaigns should receive the exact same amount of exposure, head to head.Unless we change election financing we are pissing in the wind.....

I agree! And now we have the Supreme Court decision that is going to give corporations MORE power over elections!

I am so damn tired of politicians running for re-election the day after they are sworn in! And elections being over a year long! The money that is spent in this process is crazy and could go a long way in health care and education. and, and....

What is amazing to me historically is that a single-payer system was initially part of the New Deal and was the final portion that FDR wanted to produce along with Social Security. this was not realized, unfortunately. Big business health care companies as we know tyhem today would never have formed if it had been. The SS Acts under Roosevelt were engineered by Francis Perkins, the Secretary of Labor (first woman to serve in a cabinet).

[key]

Bumping this thread to remind everyone, calling your congress critter really is the only way to let them know how you feel right now. Time is running out and (as usual) the reich wing has their ignorant minions out in force in Washington today to protest against everyone in America having health insurance. And as usual, the "liberal" (Military Industrial Media Complex) media will be covering these reich wingers as if they speak for all of America.

Please please please call your congress critter and Speaker Pelosi and tell them/her that you want all Americans to have decent affordable health care that does not go away if they get sick and actually need it, and does not force them to go bankrupt in order to pay for it. That is what the current bill does. It eliminates pre-existing conditions and rescission (dropping you when you get sick) and it puts a cap on out of pocket expenses so people do not have to sell their homes to get health care.

The bill ain't perfect but it is a heck of a lot better than what we have now.

To find out your congress critter's number go to http://www.contactingthecongress.org/ or just call the whitehouse 202-555-1212 and they will out you through.

PS do not be surprised if you get a busy signal....for a long time...People are calling, lets just make sure that the majority of calls are in favor of the bill.

[theoddz]

Don't know how many folks know about these free health care clinics, but I heard about them on Keith Olberman's show the other night when Michael Moore was guesting. I think it's a great thing and I contributed $100 to it.

This is what health care in America should be......NON PROFIT!!!

http://www.freeclinics.us/index.php

And this is what Michael has to say about the proposed passage of the current health care bill:

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4Ek2bd6jq8"]YouTube- Michael Moore on Countdown With Keith Olbermann (Guest Host Lawrence O'Donnell) - Part 2[/nomedia]

My thoughts and prayers are with Keith Olberman and his family for the recent loss of Keith's dad. Rest in peace, Mr. Olberman.

~Theo~

[Linus]

Those free health care clinics made me think of what it's like in Canada (at least for what I had experienced from growing up and living with for 37 years of my life). While the health care system still has things to fix, I think it'd be nice to have this kind of system here (or something similar -- even just the most basic health care covered to ALL).

[Linus]

I was tempted to post this in Dreadgeek's Dark Ages thread but will post it here:

Source: CNN

C.L. "Butch" Otter: The Republican governor signed the Idaho Health Freedom Act, making his state the first to pass a law saying no thanks to part of President Obama's health care proposal.

The law says that "every person within the state of Idaho is and shall be free to choose or decline to choose any mode of securing health care services without penalty or threat of penalty."


Virginia Gov. Bob McDonnell is expected to sign a bill passed in his state last week, and according to the American Legislative Exchange Council, similar proposals have made it through one chamber of the legislatures in Missouri, Oklahoma and Tennessee. While such bills have recently failed in six states, 22 additional states have seen proposals introduced.

It's curious to see this. Is this bill really that bad? I really do think a simplier bill of a single payer for basic health care and forcing health care organizations to limit their premiums would be better. Of course, the question becomes "what is basic health care?"

[Apocalipstic]

Agreed! Health Care should not be an "industry" it should not be for profit.

"Congress Critters" is one of the funniest things I can remember thinking. Thank you Key!

Keith Oberman rocks as does Michael Moore!

Linus, I think the Bill falls way way short of where I think it should be, but even as it is many people are freaked out at the very idea. They are led to believe and vote against their best interests by huge campaigns led and paid for by the insurance companies themselves.

I am very disheartened by the whole thing.

[theoddz]

You know, I don't see why we can't pattern a national health care system after the VA. I'm going to toot my employer's and my health care provider of choice here and say (again, because I've posted in these threads repeatedly about this)...that the VA has consistently, CONSISTENTLY ranked #1 NATIONWIDE, in patient satisfaction.

Now, that said, what I'm about to say is only my take, my opinion, from my own experiences with VA, both as a Disabled Veteran and a VA employee of nearly 15 years. I have worked in 2 VA health care systems (VA Northern California HCS at Sacramento, CA, VISN 21, and currently in the VA Southern Nevada Health Care system here at Las Vegas, NV, VISN 22) in my career. I also worked (as a civilian) in the DoD system for the US Navy at the Naval Medical Center in San Diego, CA. Most VA medical centers are located in large urban areas and are associated with the big state medical schools. Because of this, Veterans are given access to top of the line, cutting edge treatment. Many of the treatments and medications used to treat serious injury and disease were developed with the partnership that exists between these big educational/research institutions and the VA. On the whole, I have always gotten top notch care. The only reason I'm a little skiddish about having a surgical procedure performed where I work now is because the VA here in Las Vegas has no proximity to a state medical school. The University of Nevada School of Medicine is actually located in Reno, which is quite a ways from here, in northern Nevada. That being as such, VA has to farm many of its patients requiring specialty care to the private sector. For that reason, and that reason alone, I keep my employer based insurance through the FEHB (Federal Employees Health Benefit) plan. I would only use my health insurance plan in a situation where I needed a complex surgery or procedure.

It makes perfect sense to maybe either expand VA to cover every American and perhaps evolve it into a "Federal Health Care System". VA has repeatedly been held up and touted as an example of cost effectiveness successfully blended with cutting edge technology and top notch patient care. Our CPRS (Computerized Patient Records System) links each VA facility with another and enables us to pull up any Veteran's VA medical records from anywhere in this country. That alone saves us a lot of money. VA's buying power consistently drums down drug costs just by sheer volume. Unless a Vet holds a high disability rating (over 50%), is not being treated specifically for a service related injury or illness, or his/her income falls beneath what is called a "means threshold" (in which case, that Veteran is exempt from ALL copays), he/she pays a copayment of $8 for a 30 day supply of medication.

If we expanded the VA into a federal health care system, and covered every American under a similarly funded system, think of the costs that could be saved!! Think of the access there would be for everyone!!! We could drive costs down even further with the additional number of patients served. In such a system, we could even keep the private insurance system, employing it to cover nominal copays for services, treatments and medications. The big insurers wouldn't be making humongous profits, but providing decent care for a reasonable cost would require putting a certain amount of money back into the system. The VA does this by the employment of 3rd party billing. Those Veterans (even those like me, who are exempt from copays because of high disability ratings, yet who have private insurance through employers, etc.) are billed for services/treatment for conditions not related to our service connected disabilities. So, yes, money is put back into the system to help to pay for the treatment of other Veterans who fall beneath the "means threshold" and cannot afford to pay anything. It's all for the common good, really. I don't mind that they bill my insurance company for this. It helps other Vets and that's a good thing.

I still maintain that TRUE reform in health care cannot and will not be achieved unless you take the profit incentive out of the equation. Therein lies the problem. When it comes to money and prying it out of cold, dead, greedy hands, you're almost trying to achieve the impossible. I truly believe that it is do-able.

Respectfully,
~Theo~

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by theoddz

You know, I don't see why we can't pattern a national health care system after the VA. I'm going to toot my employer's and my health care provider of choice here and say (again, because I've posted in these threads repeatedly about this)...that the VA has consistently, CONSISTENTLY ranked #1 NATIONWIDE, in patient satisfaction.

Now, that said, what I'm about to say is only my take, my opinion, from my own experiences with VA, both as a Disabled Veteran and a VA employee of nearly 15 years. I have worked in 2 VA health care systems (VA Northern California HCS at Sacramento, CA, VISN 21, and currently in the VA Southern Nevada Health Care system here at Las Vegas, NV, VISN 22) in my career. I also worked (as a civilian) in the DoD system for the US Navy at the Naval Medical Center in San Diego, CA. Most VA medical centers are located in large urban areas and are associated with the big state medical schools. Because of this, Veterans are given access to top of the line, cutting edge treatment. Many of the treatments and medications used to treat serious injury and disease were developed with the partnership that exists between these big educational/research institutions and the VA. On the whole, I have always gotten top notch care. The only reason I'm a little skiddish about having a surgical procedure performed where I work now is because the VA here in Las Vegas has no proximity to a state medical school. The University of Nevada School of Medicine is actually located in Reno, which is quite a ways from here, in northern Nevada. That being as such, VA has to farm many of its patients requiring specialty care to the private sector. For that reason, and that reason alone, I keep my employer based insurance through the FEHB (Federal Employees Health Benefit) plan. I would only use my health insurance plan in a situation where I needed a complex surgery or procedure.

It makes perfect sense to maybe either expand VA to cover every American and perhaps evolve it into a "Federal Health Care System". VA has repeatedly been held up and touted as an example of cost effectiveness successfully blended with cutting edge technology and top notch patient care. Our CPRS (Computerized Patient Records System) links each VA facility with another and enables us to pull up any Veteran's VA medical records from anywhere in this country. That alone saves us a lot of money. VA's buying power consistently drums down drug costs just by sheer volume. Unless a Vet holds a high disability rating (over 50%), is not being treated specifically for a service related injury or illness, or his/her income falls beneath what is called a "means threshold" (in which case, that Veteran is exempt from ALL copays), he/she pays a copayment of $8 for a 30 day supply of medication.

If we expanded the VA into a federal health care system, and covered every American under a similarly funded system, think of the costs that could be saved!! Think of the access there would be for everyone!!! We could drive costs down even further with the additional number of patients served. In such a system, we could even keep the private insurance system, employing it to cover nominal copays for services, treatments and medications. The big insurers wouldn't be making humongous profits, but providing decent care for a reasonable cost would require putting a certain amount of money back into the system. The VA does this by the employment of 3rd party billing. Those Veterans (even those like me, who are exempt from copays because of high disability ratings, yet who have private insurance through employers, etc.) are billed for services/treatment for conditions not related to our service connected disabilities. So, yes, money is put back into the system to help to pay for the treatment of other Veterans who fall beneath the "means threshold" and cannot afford to pay anything. It's all for the common good, really. I don't mind that they bill my insurance company for this. It helps other Vets and that's a good thing.

I still maintain that TRUE reform in health care cannot and will not be achieved unless you take the profit incentive out of the equation. Therein lies the problem. When it comes to money and prying it out of cold, dead, greedy hands, you're almost trying to achieve the impossible. I truly believe that it is do-able.

Respectfully,
~Theo~

I wish you would run for office!

I agree 100%, health care does not need to be a money making operation.

[Toughy]

I so agree with Theo...........

I get my care at the SF VA Medical Center and I could not be happier with the cutting edge care I get. Same was true at the Albuquerque VA Medical Center. The Women's Clinic at both places is fabulous. The VA is really pushing to provide quality care for women veterans.

The care I got at a rural VA Clinic was lacking in many areas, particularly women's health and mental health.

VA..........single-payer .............definitely 'socialized medicine' ..........and I would rather have single-payer and have advocated that since the early 90's.

[MsDemeanor]

Make sure that your Congress Critter (I LOVE that) has signed on to Alan Grayson's Medicare You Can Buy Into Act, HR 4789.

Also, you can sign the petition:
http://salsa.mydccc.org/o/30019/p/di...?action_KEY=17

[AtLast]

Yes, the VA!!! We already have the right kind of public option right under our noses! this is why the GOP makes me so damn mad when it refers to Obama's plan as a socialist plan!! Which is a scare tactic.

Yes, there have been problems with the VA and I remember being very upset with this in terms of our service women and men. But, it could so easily be adopted and adapted for public health-care in the US.

This is such political and corporate welfare bullshit!!

[Soon]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pilG7PCV448"]YouTube- THE TEA PARTY & THE CIRCUS - Final Healthcare Reform Protest[/ame]

[MsDemeanor]

I want to find all their cars and put on bumper stickers that say "I'm stupid and I vote".

[key]

I kinda don't blame these people as much as I blame Fox News. These people want desperately to believe that they are free, that they are valuable. They have the same desires in life that we all do. They just lack the quality of discernment. they honestly do not realize that their "News" could be lying to them, could be using them.

Thomas Jefferson knew it way back when he said the only way a Democracy will survive is with an informed electorate. This is why he started America's first public University. Jefferson was more proud of this accomplishment than of being President, chose it for his tombstone.

These people on this video are sadly a product of what our country passes for education and information. It really takes work to find the truth, and because so few make that effort, the ones who speak these truths are often scorned as outsiders.

Anyway. Great video.

BTW, did you call your congress critter today. This is it, the last chance to speak up about this bill.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

I want to find all their cars and put on bumper stickers that say "I'm stupid and I vote".

I'll help... let's go!!

When I used to live right by a huge Christian center/church in Sacramento, some friends and me did do this with NO on 6 bumper stickers! Thousands of cars in the parking lot and it was spread out, so we could slap those puppies over the existing yes On 6 stickers without detection!!! You guessed it, security and cameras were then installed and given little electric rent-a-cop cars!!! Prop 6 passed, but, I did feel some joy!

[MsDemeanor]

Tea party folks get even more disgusting, as if that were possible:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0...16.html#s74976

[Soon]

A Guide for Those Traumatized by Right-Wing, Fear-Mongering Lies on Health Care Reform

[Linus]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

A Guide for Those Traumatized by Right-Wing, Fear-Mongering Lies on Health Care Reform

Uh.. huh? What is this referring to:

"If ObamaCare passes, that free insurance card that's in people's pockets is gonna be as worthless as a Confederate dollar after the War Between The States - the Great War of Yankee Aggression."

What "free insurance" card that exists?

[Soon]

Originally Posted by Linus

Uh.. huh? What is this referring to:



What "free insurance" card that exists?

not sure? medicare?

I'm not from the United States--shrugs.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

not sure? medicare?

I'm not from the United States--shrugs.

Neither am I. And Medicare is paid via taxes. Even Canadian Health Care isn't "free" (it's a single payer that is paid for by provincial and federal taxes, income and GST/PST)