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Old 04-13-2010, 08:37 AM   #1
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Smile Stories from WW2


I have been exchanging stories with Itty that have been told to me by Rosie's step father, a gunner in WW2. Now he is 82 yo. Stories about Normandy, the museum in New Orleans, what happened in the pow camps, getting out of the boat and heading to Ohama Beach, and so on.

I was thinking that so many of us having elderly parents, and relatives, it would be a good idea to share some of their memories here.

Namaste,
Andrew


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Old 04-13-2010, 09:08 AM   #2
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Share? hmmm... not so much. That's primarily because my parents, both Holocaust survivors, were very tight lipped about what they experienced in Poland. I would imagine it wasn't easy to discuss enduring years of constant terror, watching people they love die whether through starvation, illness, being gassed or taking a bullet to the head. I remember my mother telling me the story of how she was nearly shot in the head while working in a "factory line" and my father telling me how he lost his left hand while in one of the concentration camps.

Growing up, I only heard bits and pieces - but never anything I could fully comprehend as a child. I am merely grateful for the fact that they not only survived such an ordeal - but had the ability to come to this country and live very productive lives.
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Old 04-13-2010, 09:18 AM   #3
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Smile

Rosie's stepfather was Milton Bromberg, a Jewish boy 18 yo. He volunteered to go. He was the son of an immigrant. In his family he was the only son, and had 6 sisters. With this said, you can imagine the conversation at the dinner table when he told his parents what he had done that day. But off he went into the army. And Milton loved it. For him, it was his duty, and responsibility. He never regretted his decision. Never.

In his platoon, Milton says there were about 1,000 men at first. NC was his basic training. Then he was moved to Florida, then Texas. However, after basic training, about 300 men failed. The remainders continued on. Milton was fortunate in that he found that he enjoyed being a sharp shooter. So, he was moved to a different unit, and given a different squadron to learn under. In doing so, he also learned to use the "flame thrower" (it is the propaine tanks that the soldiers carried on their backs, with the rubber tubing that was ignited by a Zippo Lighter (of all things) and shot out fire instead of bullets. Milton also learned to shoot a variety of pistols, rifles, and machine guns from that time period. He chose the infantry instead of flying. He felt that he had more of a chance of survival in that than those "angels" - the airmen were always called and referred to as angels on their wings or wingmen. Even today that is what they are referred to as.

Milton's first mission was in England. However, he was in a specific unit that was sent in to find certain things. This is where Milton gets very quiet about. He refuses to talk about this part of his duty. I am not sure of what happened or anything. In fact, I am not really sure if Milton stayed in England or traveled to Germany or where. It is a year that he just cannot talk about.

The next thing Milton will talk about is Normandy. He was on one of the large ships that was filled with men, tanks, boats, ammunitions, food/water/basic living supplies, and so on. Milton's group was one of the first on the beach. He talks about the ocean going from a blue color to red. Men, bodies, body parts...just the unimaginable everywhere. All these men, young men, in the water, on the beach, hung on barbed wire, just everywhere for miles and miles laying dead. The German's were mercy-less. Milton vividedly remembers having to grab those who died, their rations to survive. For him, he said that it was shot to kill or be killed yourself. That is how he justified what he did or had to do. He had no hesitation shooting or using the flame thrower. And when he did use the flame thrower, he refused to shoot the men who were burning alive. However, if a man who was a flame thrower was hit, and was burning, his fellow soldiers would shoot him to put him out of his pain.

Milton was in a group of men who found many POW camps. One of which was Auschwich (sp). He was given a leave, but refused it. In doing so, his CO ordered him to go. That is one of the reasons that Milton struggles at the US Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, DC. He also finds peace at the WW2 Memorial.

Milton and his group of remaining 10 men get together once a year for a weekend. They go to different places each year. One year they returned to Normany, next they went to Washington, DC for the opening of the new monument, and this year they are having it in Richmond.

He, like so many other soldiers from WW2, have a problem with President Bush signing a cement slate that sits at one of the entrances/exits of the DC Memorial. Milton feels like the Bush family has no respect for the US or any of the soldiers. It is like a slap in their face.

We have given Milton a tape recorder to tape his war stories. They are so fascinating.
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:43 AM   #4
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Thanks for starting this thread.

My father was a member of the 761st Tank Battalion (the Black Panthers) as a driver, fighting in Patton's Third Army. He didn't talk a lot about his experiences, like a lot of combat veterans he was very tight lipped about what he saw. When I was younger, like in my early teens, I asked him about the War (and for me 'The War' means WW II, everything else is some specific war--Vietnam, Korea, First and Second Gulf Wars, etc.) and he told me one very humorous story.

They were driving across France, traversing some farmer's field when a cow, which was walking maybe 20 yard ahead of his tank, stepped on an anti-tank mine. Being a cow, it was heavy enough to set it off and the cow was blown upwards and ended landing on the turret of the tank.

I asked him about the camps and all he did was look at me and tell me that he *never* wanted me to ask him about that ever again. "There's things you just don't ever want to revisit and that is definitely one of them".

He also told me that at one point he was thinking about ex-patriating to France and playing in a jazz band. When I asked him why he said "because in France, they treated me like a man". As it turned out, my grandmother talked him out of it.

My mother worked for the Boeing aircraft company building bombers.

Of my mother's brothers *four* of them were Tuskegee Airmen.

Ten years ago, when my father died and I realized I was seeing fewer and fewer WW II veterans around I became seriously concerned. Here was the last generation of Americans who had stared uncompromising evil in the face and *knew* (didn't think but knew) what evil lay in the hearts of men. I worry for those of us left behind because I am concerned that we have lost the sense that there is evil loose in the world and while it isn't the only thing that evil men need in order to do their malevolent deeds, that kind of forgetting certainly facilitates the creation of an environment where it can grow until it is too late to check it.


Cheers
Aj
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Old 04-13-2010, 11:03 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by NJFemmie View Post
Share? hmmm... not so much. That's primarily because my parents, both Holocaust survivors, were very tight lipped about what they experienced in Poland. I would imagine it wasn't easy to discuss enduring years of constant terror, watching people they love die whether through starvation, illness, being gassed or taking a bullet to the head. I remember my mother telling me the story of how she was nearly shot in the head while working in a "factory line" and my father telling me how he lost his left hand while in one of the concentration camps.

Growing up, I only heard bits and pieces - but never anything I could fully comprehend as a child. I am merely grateful for the fact that they not only survived such an ordeal - but had the ability to come to this country and live very productive lives.
I'm always very sorry about this. I grew up with Jewish people and I'm very sensitive about the holocaust and anything anti-semitic. The Jewish people I know, some of them orthodox and some holocaust survivors, had a great impact on me growing up. Thanks for sharing your story.
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Old 04-13-2010, 11:25 AM   #6
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I'm always very sorry about this. I grew up with Jewish people and I'm very sensitive about the holocaust and anything anti-semitic. The Jewish people I know, some of them orthodox and some holocaust survivors, had a great impact on me growing up. Thanks for sharing your story.
What is an interesting fact that a lot of people don't realize is -- it was not only the Jews Hitler had a penchant for killing. The people of Poland were basically enslaved. ALL Jews had a death sentence, along with the infirm, old, homosexual, Jewish sympathizers, etc... and some Jews and non-Jews- who were healthy enough to perform labor - were put to work in concentration camps. Many of them were killed - "just because". If you spoke against the Nazis, you were killed. If you looked at them funny, you were shot. If they woke up on the wrong side of the bed one day ... well, you get my drift.

My parents were not Jewish. To my knowledge, even though my mother's maiden name "could" be of Jewish decent - she was Catholic. I will never know about my ancestry - when my parents died, they took whatever memories were left of them to their graves.

I can certainly "understand" to a certain degree what it was like for everyone, especially the Jews during that time.
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Old 04-13-2010, 11:45 AM   #7
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I had many family members who were in WWII also, but no one would talk about it. I have always been very interested in that era for whatever reason. Maybe it was that no one would speak of it.

I did have an uncle who was a POW in Italy and had shrapnel damage, another uncle who was a pilot in the Pacific and yet another who was in the Battle of the Bulge...but no details other than that. I do have some boxes of mementos I need to go through though, maybe I can find more info there. I do have guns and knives from the era from my father's estate I need to sell.

I have watched the Shoa tapes, and read and studied the Holocaust extensively. When we lived in Argentina when I was a kid there were Holocaust survivors, people who escaped before the war and Nazi sympathizers and escapees as well. It was a weird mix.

It amazes me that knowing what we do know about that time, we as humans do not do more to prevent war and genocide.

I am so disappointed in Us. Killing and torture still happen and no one wants to know.

I wonder, if I had been in a situation like the General German population was during the war, how I would have reacted. Would I have given my life to save my fellow human? Or would I choose not to know. As a child I KNEW I would have given my life in a second. Now? I knew about the prison torture in Iraq and did nothing except for vote for the person I thought least likely to continue the torture. Was that enough?......

Just rambling....sorry Andrew. Great subject, I will be reading.
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Old 04-13-2010, 11:47 AM   #8
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Milton's side of the family had relatives who ended up in c. camps. The stories they told make my blood boil, and then the tears come. I just don't understand hate, discrimination, or evil. It boggles my mind.

Milton also will speak very little of what he saw, and what happened when he came across the c. camps. They tore the soldiers up so horribly. Some of the men actually had mental breakdowns because of it.

Today the grass does not grow where the bodies were buried of those who were killed at Ausch. The Pope, when he went there a few years back, threw Holy Water on it, and prayed, but that was all. I am not sure if grass will ever grow there. It is like a continuous reminder of what happened by those who died.

There was one battle that Milton talks about constantly. It was between the US and German's. The German's were gathering the upper hand and were heading towards north towards Russia (I think). Milton said it was by far the second worst battle next to Normandy that he ever experienced. The cold was bitter, and there was no food, no cigarettes, no nothing. The soldiers took over towns, and ate/drank whatever they could find. The German's were using children as their tattletails (scouts). Innocent enough, yet, deceiving. So, we ended up having to kill children. In Milton's words, it was them or us.

Milton has night terrors and flashbacks to that battle. All those men do. It was a special order by our President (Truman at the time). Milton has medals and letters written by several presidents that are framed and hanging on his wall.
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Old 04-13-2010, 12:21 PM   #9
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My father, before he died, was a key player in having a memorial statue erected down by the Jersey City Waterfront - memorializing the deaths of all the Polish people during World War II.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre



My father and I have not always met eye to eye on many things .... but I was very proud of him for his involvement in this.
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Old 04-13-2010, 02:13 PM   #10
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Default Paper Clip Box Car Memorial

I'm posting a link to the story of an extraordinary memorial
built by the children at Whitwell Middle School in Tennessee.

The children collected 11 million paper clips each representing the 11 million victims of the Nazis:
6 million Jews and 5 million "undesirables."

About the Paper Clips in the Box Car Memorial
"The Children's Holocaust Memorial consists of an authentic German rail car that was used
to transport victims to concentration, labor, and death camps. The rail car houses eleven million
paper clips, one for each victim of the Holocaust. A small park surrounds the car.
In the park are eighteen butterflies some inlaid with stained glass and others free standing copper sculptures.
There is also a monument honoring the children lost in the Holocaust.
The school library houses over thirty thousand documents on CDs, a collection of Holocaust books, and art.
"

For more on this story, pictures, donations, videos and books, please visit:

http://69.8.250.59/body_pc.cfm?id=86
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Old 04-16-2010, 07:06 PM   #11
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Default Colonel Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg and Valkyrie

I am a WWII enthusiast and I make it my hobby to read up on the subject, or collect movies and music,
or find interesting facts and memorabilia from the late 30s and 1940s. I think I was born too late which is why I don't have a lot
of appreciation for the technology or culture of today.

It's not unlike me to talk with my uncle Steve in California for a hours about politics, culture and history.
We're both fascinated with WWII history, and we both have watched the film, Valkyrie among other war or political movies, at least a dozen times.
Valkyrie recounts the 15th failed attempt to murder Hitler by his own men in the Reich which was spearheaded by
Colonel Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg.

Valkyrie is an operation put into effect to take control of Germany in the event of Hitler's death.
It is a great movie. I've come to learn more and admire Colonel von Stauffenberg as a WWII hero who
recognized Hitler's insanity, his crimes against humanity, then attempted to do something that would have
liberated and saved thousands. His story and his courage speak volumes about his character and being
on the right side of humanity.

Not all of WWII is about Nazi Germany or the Holocaust. It's more about an era, a way of life,
an event, and hundreds of other topics that cover a very unique time in America and the world.

But for now, I want to take the opportunity to present stories of the unsung heros such as von Stauffenberg,
along with resources on the Holocaust. Anti-semitism and genocide strike a very serious chord in me having
known and grown up with Jewish families whose members survived Bergen-Belsen, Buchenwald and Auschwitz.


Colonel Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg





Claus von Stauffenberg was born in Jettingen,Germany on November 15, 1907. In his youth, he belonged to
Stefan George's circle and remained a disciple of the great poet for the rest of his life. He would quote George's
The Anti-Christ when recruiting friends and trusted colleagues into the conspiracy.

A bright student, at nineteen he became an officer cadet. He attended the War Academy in Berlin and joined the
General Staff in 1938 as a quartermaster officer in 1938 in General Erich Hoepner's 1st Light Division,
which was renamed 6th Panzer Division in November 1939.

Stauffenberg served combat positions in all of Hitler's major campaigns from the Sudetenland to Poland to France to Tunisia.
During Operation Barbarossa, Stauffenberg became appalled by the atrocities committed by the Schutzstaffel (SS),
SD and “Security Police” units, particularly the mass murder of the Jews in Russia, but he was equally appalled by the
atrocities committed by the German Army against Soviet prisoners-of-war and by the treatment of the civil population
in Russia at the hands of the German occupation administration and forces, and Stauffenberg cited these matters to
Major Joachim Kuhn in August 1942.


From the end of May 1940 to the end of January 1943, Stauffenberg served in the Army High Command/General Staff Headquarters.

In early 1943, Stauffenberg served with the 10th Panzer Division in Field Marshal Erwin Rommel's Afrika Korps.
On April 7, 1943, he was seriously wounded at Sebkhet en Noual, south of Mezzouna in the North African desert,
when Allied fighters strafed his vehicle. He lost his left eye, right hand, and last two fingers of his left hand after surgery.

Stauffenberg had decided in 1942 that he must try to help overthrow Hitler. He had attempted throughout the summer of
1942 to persuade senior commanders to move against Hitler, and he had declared in September 1942 that he himself was prepared
to kill Hitler. In 1943, he only agreed to join in conspiracy with the civilian side of the German Resistance, including Wilhelm Canaris,
Carl Goerdeler, Julius Leber, Ulrich Hassell, Hans Oster, Henning von Tresckow, Fabian von Schlabrendorff ,
Peter Graf Yorck von Wartenburg, Ludwig Beck, and Erwin von Witzleben in what became known as the July Plot.


According to the plan, after Adolf Hitler, Hermann Goering and Heinrich Himmler were assassinated, Ludwig Beck, Erwin von Witzleben and Friedrich
Fromm would take control of the German Army and seize key government buildings, telephone and signal centres, and radio stations.
Stauffenberg was to become State Secretary of the War Ministry in the post-coup government.

In June 1944, Stauffenberg was promoted to Colonel and appointed Chief of Staff to Home Army Commander General Friedrich Fromm.
This gave him direct access to Hitler's briefing sessions.

On July 11, Stauffenberg brought a bomb concealed in a briefcase with him to a briefing at Hitler's Berghof residence.
He planned to assassinate Hitler that day, but circumstances beyond his control prevented him from doing so.

Four days later, Stauffenberg flew to the Fuehrer's Wolf's Lair headquarters with aide and co-conspirator Captain Klausing.
He was ordered by senior conspirators in Berlin to abort the attempt after telephoning to report the absence of
Reichsfuehrer SS Heinrich Himmler and Luftwaffe Air Marshal Hermann Goering from the briefing session.
He secretly agreed with close friend and Berlin co-conspirator Colonel von Mertz to try to kill Hitler anyway,
but when he returned to the briefing room, he discovered the session had ended after only five minutes.

On July 20, Stauffenberg flew to the Wolf's Lair again with aide and co-conspirator Lt. Werner von Haeften.
Stauffenberg, who had never met Hitler before, carried the bomb in a briefcase and placed it on the floor
while he left to make a phone call. The bomb exploded. Of four men in the hut who died of the attack,
only one was killed outright. Another died in the afternoon, and two more died later in hospital.
Hitler's right arm was badly injured, but he survived the bomb blast. Stauffenberg returned to
Berlin with Haeften and arrived at Army High Command Headquarters at 4:30 P.M. to launch the planned coup.
The plot unraveled, however, for several reasons: Hitler survived the attack; co-conspirator General Friedrich Olbricht
neglected to set the coup in motion during first two hours after the attempt; and the conspirators failed to seize any
radio stations or retain authority over reserve army troops in Berlin.

In an attempt to protect himself, Fromm organized the execution of Stauffenberg along with three other conspirators,
Friedrich Olbricht, Werner von Haeften, and Colonel Albrecht Ritter Mertz von Quirnheim, in the courtyard of the War Ministry.
On July 21, 1944, at 12:30 A.M., Stauffenberg was executed by firing squad. It was later reported that Stauffenberg died shouting,
"Long live free Germany."
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Old 04-17-2010, 03:06 AM   #12
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My wife is also a WW2 buff. We were talking about Von Stauffenberg and she commented that Hitler was so enraged by Von Stauffenbergs disloyalty and attempted murder that he ordered the SS and the Gestapo to locate and kill everyone named Von Stauffenberg. There were people who had never even heard of the Colonel or his attempt to take Hitlers life...but because they had the same last name they were murdered on the spot!
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Old 04-17-2010, 04:20 AM   #13
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What has always interested me about WWII was that in Germany the Nazis were gutter thugs but were adept at using terror to get ordinary people to also do their dirty work. April 13th is Holocaust remeberance day here but we should all do well to keep that kind of evil in remeberance conciously....because it was ordinary people that helped the nazis accomplish what they set out to do...

Hitlers Willing Executioners is a great book....

and in germany there was nil as far as resistance went....oh there was a tiny group called the White Rose Resistance but they did not accomplish much and every single one of the group was turned in by thier neighbors and friends and executed swiftly.....thats what the nazis accoomplished at home....zero resistance
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Old 04-17-2010, 02:30 PM   #14
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Jet,

Please post the stories you want too. I for one, enjoy reading them.

Thanks.

Andrew
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Old 04-17-2010, 04:06 PM   #15
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The Fighting Sullivans



In my opinion, there is no war story that is more heart wrenching, or has had quite the impact on me,
than the story of the five Sullivan brothers from Waterloo, Iowa. The true story of losing five sons on the USS Juneau
and how it impacted the nation and changed military policy (pre-private Ryan) has always affected on me —
along with the movie, The Fighting Sullivans, which was nominated for Best Story.
I had heard the movie wasn't shown for years because it wasn't good for morale.
And I remember my mother telling me that people would sit in the theater just weep.
Losing the five Sullivans was recorded as the greatest loss to a single family in American history.


_____________________________

Below, the letter of condolence from President Roosevelt to Mrs. Sullivan, 1943


Dear Mrs. Sullivan:

"The knowledge that your five gallant sons are missing in action, against the enemy, inspired me to write you this personal message.
I realize full well there is little I can say to assuage your grief. "As the Commander in Chief of the Army and the Navy, I want you to know
that the entire nation shares your sorrow. I offer you the condolence and gratitude of our country. We, who remain to carry on the fight,
must maintain the spirit in the knowledge that such sacrifice is not in vain. The Navy Department has informed me of the expressed desire of your sons;

George Thomas, Francis Henry, Joseph Eugene, Madison Abel, and Albert Leo, to serve on the same ship. I am sure, that we all take pride in the
knowledge that they fought side by side. As one of your sons wrote, `We will make a team together that can't be beat.'
It is this spirit which in the end must triumph.

"Last March, you, Mrs. Sullivan, were designated to sponsor a ship of the Navy in recognition of your patriotism and that of your sons.
I am to understand that you are, now, even more determined to carry on as sponsorer. This evidence of unselfishness and courage serves
as a real inspiration for me, as I am sure it will for all Americans. Such acts of fate and fortitude in the face of tragedy convince me of the
indomitable spirit and will of our people.

"I send you my deepest sympathy in your hour of trial and pray that in Almighty God you will find a comfort and help that only He can bring.

Very sincerely yours,
"/s/ Franklin D. Roosevelt"


________________________________


I wanted to share the scene from the movie when Mr. and Mrs. Sullivan receive a personal visit from,not one,
but three naval officers who deliver the news that their sons had died. I'll paraphrase here: Mr. Sullivan (played by Thomas Mitchell) asks, "which one?"
The naval officer (Ward Bond) replies, "All five." The scene is not available on YouTube, at least I couldn't find it, so I'm posting a lighter sequence of the
Sullivans as young boys. Enjoy the clip from this great movie, The Fighting Sullivans, 1944 and the memory of the five Sullivan brothers
.



____________________________________

The destroyer, USS The Sullivans launched in 1943

After the brothers' death, Mrs. Sullivan christened the fletcher-class destroyer USS The Sullivans in 1943.
It was the first of two ships named in honor of the Sullivan brothers.
The second is a destroyer launched in 1995 and remains in service today.






The Sullivan Brothers

Left to right

George Thomas Sullivan, 27 (born 14 December 1914), Gunner's Mate Second Class (George had been previously discharged in May 1941 as Gunner's Mate Third Class.)
Francis "Frank" Henry Sullivan, 26 (born 18 February 1916), Coxswain (Frank had been previously discharged in May 1941 as Seaman First Class.)
Joseph "Joe" Eugene Sullivan, 24 (born 28 August 1918), Seaman Second Class
Madison "Matt" Abel Sullivan, 23 (born 8 November 1919), Seaman Second Class
Albert "Al" Leo Sullivan, 20 (born 8 July 1922), Seaman Second Class



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Old 04-17-2010, 06:23 PM   #16
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I remember that story of the 5 Sullivan brothers. It amazes me that the US Navy would allow all 5 to fight together. I wonder what the higher command was thinking and what their logic was behind allowing the brothers to fight together. Obviously someone dropped the ball, and the Sullivan's paid the price.

Milton would tell me about the movie, "The Fighting Sullivans", and people crying in the movie theatre. It was just a bad time for all of American's. That is one movie Milton still to this day he cannot watch. He just can't.
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Old 04-17-2010, 07:01 PM   #17
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No policy regarding family members serving together at the same location had been enacted.

The Sullivan brothers wanted to avenge the death of a friend who had been killed at Pearl Harbor. So all five brothers enlisted in the Navy and fought the recruiting officer and the War Department to serve together, ending up on the USS Juneau which was hit by a torpedo at Guatalcanal. (sp)

No one dropped the ball. It was about brotherhood, avenging a death, and very different ideals about serving in war at the time. It was exactly what the Sullivans wanted. They grew up together as five—and did everything as five or none at all.
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Old 04-18-2010, 12:40 AM   #18
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Hollywood stepped in with war movies,
actors going off to war, and big name volunteers at the Hollywood Canteen.
Three of the best for boosting morale with jitterbug and a good supply
of boogie woogie and Swing were Patty, Maxine and Laverne.

The Andrews Sisters.


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Old 04-18-2010, 01:19 AM   #19
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My father was just a few years too young to serve in WWII. I think it always bothered him that he couldn't serve. His father served in both WWI and WWII: the former, mostly in France, the latter as a quartermaster in a major army training camp in Nova Scotia.

My grandfather NEVER spoke of the war itself. Never. He told a few stories of times spent in cafes - sang a few French songs he'd learned there. The same for my Great-Uncle. It was behind them. They'd survived fighting in the mud and trenches that was France in their experiences. I doubt they thought that any good could come of sharing what they chose to keep to themselves.

Five years spent over there. Their youth squandered in the mud.
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Old 04-18-2010, 12:39 PM   #20
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Heres a website for the Holocaust Collection. It includes stories,concentration camps,looted valuables and national archive records.

http://go.footnote.com/holocaust/
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