Where Does Our Death Penalty Passion Come From

Blade · 12-03-2010, 04:01 PM

The death penalty is always a hot topic. We are passionate about what we believe concerning the death penalty. I have to wonder how much of our passion is emotionally driven by something that has happened in our past. Have you or someone you know been a victim of a violent crime? Do you personally know someone who has been convicted of a violent crime? Do you know family members or friends of someone who was a victim or the convicted person? Share your stories if you like.

Gemme · 12-03-2010, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blade

The death penalty is always a hot topic. We are passionate about what we believe concerning the death penalty. I have to wonder how much of our passion is emotionally driven by something that has happened in our past. Have you or someone you know been a victim of a violent crime? Do you personally know someone who has been convicted of a violent crime? Do you know family members or friends of someone who was a victim or the convicted person? Share your stories if you like.

I've personally known someone who stabbed his lover to death. I've known countless people who've been affected one way or another by violent crimes, both close friends and acquaintances/coworkers. I spent a decade of my life as a victim of psychological and sexual child abuse.

Kobi · 12-03-2010, 04:57 PM

I dont have much passion, per se, about the death penalty.
I have been on both sides of the issue and
am currently straddling the fence on it.

I do, however, have influences for my feelings about it.
First I come from a long line of military and law enforcement folks.
There is a certain mind set that develops when loved ones are
always in harms way in protecting others.

Second, I worked in health care/mental health and have seen
the horrors people can perpetrate upon one another. It was
frightening, disgusting, and maddening.

My passion is toward finding some way to stop crime
- any type of crime - in ways that do not compromise
my values, beliefs, morals, and ethics. Crime screws with
my peace of mind. I dont want to deal with a "solution"
that does the same thing.

Think my motto for the New Year is going to be....
Dont F*&$ With MY Kumbaya.

Glenn · 12-03-2010, 04:59 PM

I've had two friends who've murdered their husbands after being horribly abused. They pled out to invol manslaughter, and were out of the pen in 3-4 years. It usually takes alot to anger a woman to make them want to kill you. I felt no remorse whatsoever for their abusers.

Isadora · 12-03-2010, 05:46 PM

I worked with victims (children, women, men) of domestic violence and sexual assault/rape for about 30 years. I have seen it. I have heard it. I have witnessed it. I have survived it.

Laerkin · 12-03-2010, 06:43 PM

I am fiercely against the death penalty. My sister a public defender, defending the poorest and the least educated and the troubled, sometimes in unspeakable crimes. The stories of abuse, racism, blatant disregard, and hatred that so many of her clients have faced are shocking. That's not to say they're necessarily innocent of their crimes, but it's certainly taken my compassion to a whole new level.

I've been a bystander in a violent crime and I've had friends and loved ones affected by violence.

However, I still do not bend when it comes to the death penalty. Murder is murder.

(I am certainly not de-valuing anyone else's experiences or beliefs, simply stating mine with passion

.)

Deepest peace to all...

Rook · 12-03-2010, 07:04 PM

I'm not a Victim, I'm a Survivor..

That being said, my 2nd girlfriend's Father was acquitted from what they called a Crime of Passion, I'm not sure what the details of it all were, it did make the local paper when it happened, my g/f and her brother kept it, as proof of what their Father did to their Mother..
He also got custody of them..
It was painfully evident his preference towards my g/f's step-siblings..

The "system" is seriously Flawed..
That much is Painfully evident for many more reasons than I can verbalize...
I don't advocate Death Penalty, mostly because I believe they should Live with their conscience, small price for taxpayers, lifelong agony for Convict...
Death Penalty is the "easy way" out of their Guilt.
The convicts Death won't bring back their victims to the Families involved, they'll have some sort of closure, but, that's it...

Nat · 12-03-2010, 07:42 PM

I loved a person very dearly who was convicted of attempted murder.

I also knew a woman whose boyfriend took a knife and murdered her child in front of her and then almost killed her. He got the death penalty.

I also served on the jury for a capital murder trial and helped convict a person - the only black person (who was also legally though not totally blind) in the entire trial - who probably did not pull the trigger. (A russian guy confessed to being the person who pulled the trigger while in jail, according to the testimony of another inmate, but the russian was allowed to return to russia in exchange for testifying for the grand jury against the guy we convicted).

I was the only person on the jury who didn't immediately agree to the guilty verdict. The only person who wanted to go back through all the things that had been said during the trial. It was only after hours of arguing against 11 other jurors that the foreman re-read the instructions which said we were to find him guilty if we believed beyond a reasonable doubt that he had actually murdered the person or if through intentional or negligent action, a reasonable person could have predicted his actions could have led to the person's death. (This is the closest I can come to remembering the instructions - it's been a while). With that instruction, I was able to look at his actions and say they met the criteria. We found him guilty. He was sentenced to life in prison and he'll have no chance for parole until he is 70 years old.

It wasn't a death penalty case. If it had been a death penalty case, I would have been eliminated during jury selection. I would guess that in a death penalty trial, if they eliminate all jurors who disagree with the death penalty, that the jurors left are probably of a more punitive mind and more likely to convict. That's just a guess.

There was one black woman who was near the front of the jury selection, but the prosecutor asked each one of us if we'd be willing to sentence a person to life in prison, and she said no and was eliminated. I still remember the white woman sitting across to me that said, "Come on, Natalie, these people aren't like us!" in response to some question I had. Maybe she wasn't talking about race, but looking back, I really don't know what else she meant. I guess she could have meant "pot dealers" or "criminals." I think she was probably the same age as my mom - everybody in there was older than me by at least 10 years (I think I was 23 at the time).

The defense lawyer did not defend the guy very well. She left huge gaps in his case, she left out critical information. After the trial was over, she caught me in the hallway and asked me for my perspective on the case. I gave her an ear-full about her defense and gave a huge list of things she could have done better. A friend of a friend used to be a prosecutor, and I mentioned her to him, and he said she was one of the best public defenders he'd seen.

So, you know, I think I followed the instructions provided by the court and I do think his actions could have predictably led to the victim's death whether or not he pulled the trigger. It was his idea to rob the guy, it was his idea to take him to a secluded area to do it. It was his idea to invite his brother-in-law and a russian guy who liked to brag about being part of the russian mafia along for the robbery. He wasn't a nice guy. But was he guilty of capital murder? Should a person be convicted of capital murder if he didn't pull the trigger?

I don't know if maybe that trial was unusual, but I suspect it was pretty run-of-the-mill. I wasn't impressed. I wasn't impressed with the way the justice system is set up to work. I don't think he was tried by a jury of his peers. I don't think he had a competent lawyer. I don't think it's fair that the person who bragged about killing the victim is living free with his girlfriend in Russia, and the guy we convicted of capital murder may or may not live to breathe free air again even though he didn't pull the trigger.

I see the justice system as far too flawed to handle the responsibility of deciding a person should be put to death. Death is irreversible.

The Innocence project has cleared the names of 261 people based on DNA evidence alone. Those are just a small sliver of cases where DNA evidence existed and was preserved.

Blade · 12-04-2010, 06:10 PM

Have you or someone you know been a victim of a violent crime? I have never been a victim of a violent crime. I did/do personally know folks who were victims of violent crimes.

Do you personally know someone who has been convicted of a violent crime? I know 3 people who have been convicted of capitol murder.

Do you know family members or friends of someone who was a victim or the convicted person? Yes to both

Share your stories if you like.

In the early 80's I was living in east Tennessee. I made some friends in college and spent a lot of time at their families homes. I met a lot of their local friends. We'd drink and party and play volley ball and spades and all sorts of things. One of the guys was sorta quiet and had announced that God had called him to preach. We heard him preach on several occasions and even we couldn't believe the change in him. He wouldn't even play games with us if anyone was making bets. His brothers would bet on our games. LOL One of the brothers moved down to McDonald Tn. We visited him and met his neighbors and hug out. One morning all over the news was 2 people had been murdered and their baby left crying in her crib in a trailer park in McDonald. As the story went on Ricky was arrested. He and a few of his friends had decided they wanted to borrow their brothers neighbors Trans Am and they wouldn't let them. So they killed them.

Story number two. Back in 2007 a personal friend of mine decided having a certain male companion was more important than her kids. She had lost a huge amount of weight and was getting a lot of male attention and she liked it. Her children were cramping her lifestyle, holding her back. So she locked them in their bedroom and set the house on fire and laid in a ditch outside and watched it burn. When she called 911 finally it took her several minutes into the conversation to mention that oh by the way my kids are in that house. This is a small community, I knew much of her family and her ex'es family before I ever knew her, however she hung out with us and our biking group 4 days a week for about 2 yrs.

Number 3 was a young man who was a police officer, he was convicted of stalking stopping and killing my ex brother in laws 2nd wife. This is one of my it depends cases....the case was all circumstantial no DNA evidence so no I don't believe he should have gotten the death penalty and he didn't.

The other two cases also got life sentences. Do I believe they should have gotten the death penalty. Yes I do, however in case #2 I think that mother is getting her hell on earth in prison. I'm sure they aren't very nice to women who kill their own kids and she gets to think about them every day.

MsDemeanor · 12-04-2010, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laerkin

I am fiercely against the death penalty. My sister a public defender, defending the poorest and the least educated and the troubled, sometimes in unspeakable crimes. The stories of abuse, racism, blatant disregard, and hatred that so many of her clients have faced are shocking. That's not to say they're necessarily innocent of their crimes, but it's certainly taken my compassion to a whole new level.

I've been a bystander in a violent crime and I've had friends and loved ones affected by violence.

However, I still do not bend when it comes to the death penalty. Murder is murder.

Replace 'sister' with 'husband'; add ramblings about systemic false/misleading/evasive testimony by police, buddy-buddy judges who help out DAs, and crime shows/nightly news scripted to keep suburban white folks scared. Replace 2nd paragraph with 'step brother murdered'. Ditto everything else.

AtLast · 08-29-2011, 01:41 PM

I support the death penalty for violent and sexual crimes of murder against children. "State sponsored murder" is meaningless to me as an argument against the death penalty. I do not accept cruel & unusual punishment arguments against the death penalty. Make it as painless as possible, but what was done to the victims in these cases was nice a painless or horrible death.

I also support the Innocence Project and using scientific evidence like DNA to exonerate anyone falsely charged or convicted and believes that any and all death penalty convicts should have the right to have these tests done to prove innocence and paid for by the state/locale they are incarcerated in. I don't want an innocent person put to death. But, death to me is just punishment for these types of crimes.

I do not support the death penalty for minors (at the time of the crime or otherwise), for developmentally delayed or mentally ill persons. Sociopaths do not fall under this distinction.

I do believe that POC are far more often and convicted of all crimes and that is just plain wrong. I also know that other people are adamantly against the death penalty. I respect your feelings, yet disagree. Presently, in CA, the death penalty cannot be administered. We have had several periods in which these were stopped and death penalty related measure to vote on.

In the past, I was against the death penalty. That all changed as I worked as a victim’s rights advocate for child sexual abuse and later as an expert witness. Of course, I have a bias.

Yes, have been the victim of violent crime and know others that have been personally. We all do come to personal conclusions based upon our life experiences.

LaneyDoll · 08-29-2011, 02:46 PM

Today is really not the day for me to answer this question. Earlier today, I read the story about a 10 year old boy whose parents punished him for wetting the bed, by holding all his liquids for 5 days in 100 degree plus Texas summer heat. His BROTHER (same age or close) watched it happen and even noted that when the poor child was fed peanut butter, the parents refused to allow him liquids. The same brother feared offering help b/c the parents may punish him too.

So, do I have objections to the death penalty? Hell no! In fact today, I wish the punishment was more fitting the crime.

Gráinne · 08-29-2011, 02:58 PM

No, not as our justice system is currently organized.

POC, poor, and the mentally deficient are convicted of capital crimes much more than non-POC and/or wealthy who can afford top council.

If we're going to have the death penalty at all, let's make it more immediate. If a criminal is finally executed 10-15 years later, that's meaningless. It's also horrifically expensive to go through appeal after appeal. I don't want my tax money going for that.

If it is a deterrent, what are the violent crime rates compared to other countries with no death penalty, adjusted for population? I don't think it is.

I'd rather see a complete reorganization and reform of the justice system, abolishing parole and release for "good behavior", and while we're at it, a much more humane way to deal with the mentally ill than prison. Still, I admit there's no answer for a sociopath.

Reader · 08-29-2011, 03:23 PM

Oh, my. This thread again.

Luv · 08-29-2011, 04:17 PM

My friends Lori and John were murdered in the 80's..2 men involed,,the one that did the rape and sodomy got a slap on the hand cause he testified against the guy that did it. My friends were beaten,burnt,duct taped ,raped,,sodomized in front of their 1 1/2 yr old and 6 day old children..these kids were left orphaned...death penalty,,hell yea,,and Id volunteer to do it,,they did nothing to deserve this,,the man that did it deserves to have done to him what he did to them

http://sloblogs.thetribunenews.com/s...nced-to-death/

http://www.sanluisobispo.com/2010/02...-to-death.html

MissPriss · 08-29-2011, 04:59 PM

What should I start with? First I have been a victim of a violent crime and have family that were victims to violent crime. When I was 17 years old my twin sister was murdered due to some stupid bitch bein drugged and having an a self-esteem problem. As a result my entire adult life has been spent in some type of law enforcement. I have seen many things, know many victims, know many ppl convicted of murder. Do I think that there are different types of murder? Yes, absolutely. My sister was gunned down by someone that didnt like the way her boyfriend looked at my sister! My sister didnt ask to be looked at nor did she pay him any mind, she was walking down the street talking to me at the time and never glanced in his direction. Would I love to see her killer fried, injected, hung? Any of those would do! However, because her killer suffered abuse from her boyfriend that she didnt want anyone looking at she took a plea and was sentenced to 20 years!!! Is that enough? Not by far!!! She was 25 years old when she shot my sister and that was 14 years ago. She only has 6 more to go and she will be 45 when she is released and still have plenty of her life to live. My sister missed out on lots of things that seem to simple to most of us that were able to have them....she didnt get to go to her senior prom, she didnt get to graduate, she didnt get to turn 18, she never celebrated her 21st bday, never fell in love. She had many decisions left to make and in an instant over petty bullshit someone else made every single decision for her!! Has her killer ever made any attempt to even show that she feels bad in any way? NO....ppl who can mindlessly murder someone can not feel bad, they can live out the rest of their days in prison, in a crazy hospital, whatever......and NEVER give what they have done another thought! .........also recently in LA a FATHER cut his sons head off and he was a disabled child! His life was ended by someone that was supposed to love and protect him! Should he get the needle...absolutely and I would like to think that I could give it to him and go to bed with a smile on my face! Justice is just that and if justice were given and I mean really given for those that are innocent victims the world would be a better place! When a judge give a death sentence what does that actually mean??? It means that the person sentenced gets to go to prison and exhaust every single appeal and every little detail that they can hang on to keep their ass breathing! All the while, the murder victim is DEAD...gone without any appeal they cant ask to come back! Children that are horribly abused and violated have to deal with the physical and emotional pain and scars left from those who attacked and violated them. Most of them so tormented that they end up taking their own lives while the predator pleas for his/hers and gets out of prison to do the same thing to another!! I am for the death penalty and Im proud of that! AT times I wish that I wasnt but nothing in me can be that forgiving. Now just so it doesnt look like Im just a pissed off sister that wants the blood of the woman that took my sister away. I will share something else. My best friend is on death row for the murder of his father. Yes he is still my very dearest friend!! Do I think he should die for that? Yes and No. Yes, because he took another life and never blinked an eye and he doesnt feel bad for it either. No, because he pushed that point! HE was abused and molested for the majority of his life! HE was taken out of his fathers home multiple times and sent back! His father was sentenced to 3 years in prison for child abuse when he was 12yrs old. His father was released from prison when he was almost 14, didnt even serve the full sentence. After being out 6 months and taking a few classes.....he was shoved right back in to his fathers home for the abuse and molestation to pick right back up. His father was investigated 5 times within the first year and he was removed from the home 2 of those times. Long story short that kept going on over and over until he was 16 and his father bought him a gun for his upcoming 17th birthday that was 2 days away! He waited till the sorry bastard went to sleep and put a bullet in his head. He is now on death row....because he took a life....he took a life because JUSTICE failed the VICTIM......He has to pay for what he done and that doesnt turn me against the death penalty....but that makes him a VICTIM X 2!

View Poll Results: Where Does Our Death Penalty Passion Come From?
I have been a victim of violent crime	18	38.30%
I personally know a convicted murder	5	10.64%
I know someone who was a victim of murder	16	34.04%
I know family/close friends of someone convicted of murder	9	19.15%
I know family/close friends of a victim of murder	15	31.91%
I personally know someone convicted of other violent crimes	10	21.28%
I know family/close friends of a victim of a violent crime	17	36.17%
I don't personally know any victims of violent crime	3	6.38%
I don't personally know anyone convicted of a violent crime	5	10.64%
I only know law abiding citizens	6	12.77%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

12-03-2010, 04:01 PM	#1
Blade Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: TG Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: once in a while someone amazing comes along...and here I am! Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Down on the farm Posts: 5,492 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,850 Thanked 14,400 Times in 4,049 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	Where Does Our Death Penalty Passion Come From The death penalty is always a hot topic. We are passionate about what we believe concerning the death penalty. I have to wonder how much of our passion is emotionally driven by something that has happened in our past. Have you or someone you know been a victim of a violent crime? Do you personally know someone who has been convicted of a violent crime? Do you know family members or friends of someone who was a victim or the convicted person? Share your stories if you like. __________________ Yeah so what if I'm triple dipped in awesome sauce? The best way to predict the future, is to create it.

12-03-2010, 04:57 PM	#3
Kobi Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Biological female. Lesbian. Relationship Status: Happy Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Hanging out in the Atlantic. Posts: 9,234 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,840 Thanked 34,661 Times in 7,652 Posts Rep Power: 21474860	I dont have much passion, per se, about the death penalty. I have been on both sides of the issue and am currently straddling the fence on it. I do, however, have influences for my feelings about it. First I come from a long line of military and law enforcement folks. There is a certain mind set that develops when loved ones are always in harms way in protecting others. Second, I worked in health care/mental health and have seen the horrors people can perpetrate upon one another. It was frightening, disgusting, and maddening. My passion is toward finding some way to stop crime - any type of crime - in ways that do not compromise my values, beliefs, morals, and ethics. Crime screws with my peace of mind. I dont want to deal with a "solution" that does the same thing. Think my motto for the New Year is going to be.... Dont F*&$ With MY Kumbaya. __________________

12-03-2010, 05:46 PM	#5
Isadora Member How Do You Identify?: Momma, Ma'am Preferred Pronoun?: She/Her Relationship Status: I am in love. Truly Madly Deeply Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: California Posts: 997 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 502 Thanked 2,128 Times in 560 Posts Rep Power: 2369287	I worked with victims (children, women, men) of domestic violence and sexual assault/rape for about 30 years. I have seen it. I have heard it. I have witnessed it. I have survived it. __________________ "I have a respect for manners as such, they are a way of dealing with people you don't agree with or like." Margaret Mead Read me! www.leatherati.com

12-03-2010, 07:04 PM	#7
Rook Senior Member How Do You Identify?: A.G - Stone Butch - GenderFuck Preferred Pronoun?: Hym, Hyz...or, just b respectable, it's not that hard.. Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Columbus Posts: 2,280 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,227 Thanked 3,183 Times in 1,287 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	I'm not a Victim, I'm a Survivor.. That being said, my 2nd girlfriend's Father was acquitted from what they called a Crime of Passion, I'm not sure what the details of it all were, it did make the local paper when it happened, my g/f and her brother kept it, as proof of what their Father did to their Mother.. He also got custody of them.. It was painfully evident his preference towards my g/f's step-siblings.. The "system" is seriously Flawed.. That much is Painfully evident for many more reasons than I can verbalize... I don't advocate Death Penalty, mostly because I believe they should Live with their conscience, small price for taxpayers, lifelong agony for Convict... Death Penalty is the "easy way" out of their Guilt. The convicts Death won't bring back their victims to the Families involved, they'll have some sort of closure, but, that's it... __________________

12-03-2010, 04:59 PM	#4
Glenn Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Northwest Wind and Lake Michigan Preferred Pronoun?: Paesano Relationship Status: Solo Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Indiana Dunes National Lakeshore Posts: 1,546 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,597 Thanked 3,732 Times in 1,096 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	I've had two friends who've murdered their husbands after being horribly abused. They pled out to invol manslaughter, and were out of the pen in 3-4 years. It usually takes alot to anger a woman to make them want to kill you. I felt no remorse whatsoever for their abusers.

12-03-2010, 06:43 PM	#6
Laerkin Member How Do You Identify?: Girlie with a touch of bossy Preferred Pronoun?: She, but not hung up on the details Relationship Status: Parenting our furry family with SmoothButch Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Washington DC Posts: 385 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 772 Thanked 963 Times in 257 Posts Rep Power: 4366970	I am fiercely against the death penalty. My sister a public defender, defending the poorest and the least educated and the troubled, sometimes in unspeakable crimes. The stories of abuse, racism, blatant disregard, and hatred that so many of her clients have faced are shocking. That's not to say they're necessarily innocent of their crimes, but it's certainly taken my compassion to a whole new level. I've been a bystander in a violent crime and I've had friends and loved ones affected by violence. However, I still do not bend when it comes to the death penalty. Murder is murder. (I am certainly not de-valuing anyone else's experiences or beliefs, simply stating mine with passion .) Deepest peace to all...

12-03-2010, 07:42 PM	#8
Nat Senior Member How Do You Identify?: bigender Preferred Pronoun?: whatevs Relationship Status: in a relationship Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tx Posts: 3,535 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,042 Thanked 13,992 Times in 2,595 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	I loved a person very dearly who was convicted of attempted murder. I also knew a woman whose boyfriend took a knife and murdered her child in front of her and then almost killed her. He got the death penalty. I also served on the jury for a capital murder trial and helped convict a person - the only black person (who was also legally though not totally blind) in the entire trial - who probably did not pull the trigger. (A russian guy confessed to being the person who pulled the trigger while in jail, according to the testimony of another inmate, but the russian was allowed to return to russia in exchange for testifying for the grand jury against the guy we convicted). I was the only person on the jury who didn't immediately agree to the guilty verdict. The only person who wanted to go back through all the things that had been said during the trial. It was only after hours of arguing against 11 other jurors that the foreman re-read the instructions which said we were to find him guilty if we believed beyond a reasonable doubt that he had actually murdered the person or if through intentional or negligent action, a reasonable person could have predicted his actions could have led to the person's death. (This is the closest I can come to remembering the instructions - it's been a while). With that instruction, I was able to look at his actions and say they met the criteria. We found him guilty. He was sentenced to life in prison and he'll have no chance for parole until he is 70 years old. It wasn't a death penalty case. If it had been a death penalty case, I would have been eliminated during jury selection. I would guess that in a death penalty trial, if they eliminate all jurors who disagree with the death penalty, that the jurors left are probably of a more punitive mind and more likely to convict. That's just a guess. There was one black woman who was near the front of the jury selection, but the prosecutor asked each one of us if we'd be willing to sentence a person to life in prison, and she said no and was eliminated. I still remember the white woman sitting across to me that said, "Come on, Natalie, these people aren't like us!" in response to some question I had. Maybe she wasn't talking about race, but looking back, I really don't know what else she meant. I guess she could have meant "pot dealers" or "criminals." I think she was probably the same age as my mom - everybody in there was older than me by at least 10 years (I think I was 23 at the time). The defense lawyer did not defend the guy very well. She left huge gaps in his case, she left out critical information. After the trial was over, she caught me in the hallway and asked me for my perspective on the case. I gave her an ear-full about her defense and gave a huge list of things she could have done better. A friend of a friend used to be a prosecutor, and I mentioned her to him, and he said she was one of the best public defenders he'd seen. So, you know, I think I followed the instructions provided by the court and I do think his actions could have predictably led to the victim's death whether or not he pulled the trigger. It was his idea to rob the guy, it was his idea to take him to a secluded area to do it. It was his idea to invite his brother-in-law and a russian guy who liked to brag about being part of the russian mafia along for the robbery. He wasn't a nice guy. But was he guilty of capital murder? Should a person be convicted of capital murder if he didn't pull the trigger? I don't know if maybe that trial was unusual, but I suspect it was pretty run-of-the-mill. I wasn't impressed. I wasn't impressed with the way the justice system is set up to work. I don't think he was tried by a jury of his peers. I don't think he had a competent lawyer. I don't think it's fair that the person who bragged about killing the victim is living free with his girlfriend in Russia, and the guy we convicted of capital murder may or may not live to breathe free air again even though he didn't pull the trigger. I see the justice system as far too flawed to handle the responsibility of deciding a person should be put to death. Death is irreversible. The Innocence project has cleared the names of 261 people based on DNA evidence alone. Those are just a small sliver of cases where DNA evidence existed and was preserved. __________________ I'm a fountain of blood. In the shape of a girl. - Bjork What is to give light must endure burning. -Viktor Frankl

12-04-2010, 06:10 PM	#9
Blade Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: TG Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: once in a while someone amazing comes along...and here I am! Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Down on the farm Posts: 5,492 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,850 Thanked 14,400 Times in 4,049 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	Have you or someone you know been a victim of a violent crime? I have never been a victim of a violent crime. I did/do personally know folks who were victims of violent crimes. Do you personally know someone who has been convicted of a violent crime? I know 3 people who have been convicted of capitol murder. Do you know family members or friends of someone who was a victim or the convicted person? Yes to both Share your stories if you like. In the early 80's I was living in east Tennessee. I made some friends in college and spent a lot of time at their families homes. I met a lot of their local friends. We'd drink and party and play volley ball and spades and all sorts of things. One of the guys was sorta quiet and had announced that God had called him to preach. We heard him preach on several occasions and even we couldn't believe the change in him. He wouldn't even play games with us if anyone was making bets. His brothers would bet on our games. LOL One of the brothers moved down to McDonald Tn. We visited him and met his neighbors and hug out. One morning all over the news was 2 people had been murdered and their baby left crying in her crib in a trailer park in McDonald. As the story went on Ricky was arrested. He and a few of his friends had decided they wanted to borrow their brothers neighbors Trans Am and they wouldn't let them. So they killed them. Story number two. Back in 2007 a personal friend of mine decided having a certain male companion was more important than her kids. She had lost a huge amount of weight and was getting a lot of male attention and she liked it. Her children were cramping her lifestyle, holding her back. So she locked them in their bedroom and set the house on fire and laid in a ditch outside and watched it burn. When she called 911 finally it took her several minutes into the conversation to mention that oh by the way my kids are in that house. This is a small community, I knew much of her family and her ex'es family before I ever knew her, however she hung out with us and our biking group 4 days a week for about 2 yrs. Number 3 was a young man who was a police officer, he was convicted of stalking stopping and killing my ex brother in laws 2nd wife. This is one of my it depends cases....the case was all circumstantial no DNA evidence so no I don't believe he should have gotten the death penalty and he didn't. The other two cases also got life sentences. Do I believe they should have gotten the death penalty. Yes I do, however in case #2 I think that mother is getting her hell on earth in prison. I'm sure they aren't very nice to women who kill their own kids and she gets to think about them every day. __________________ Yeah so what if I'm triple dipped in awesome sauce? The best way to predict the future, is to create it.

08-29-2011, 01:41 PM	#11
AtLast Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Woman Preferred Pronoun?: HER - SHE Relationship Status: Relating Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: CA & AZ I'm a Snowbird Posts: 5,408 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,826 Thanked 10,830 Times in 3,200 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	I support the death penalty for violent and sexual crimes of murder against children. "State sponsored murder" is meaningless to me as an argument against the death penalty. I do not accept cruel & unusual punishment arguments against the death penalty. Make it as painless as possible, but what was done to the victims in these cases was nice a painless or horrible death. I also support the Innocence Project and using scientific evidence like DNA to exonerate anyone falsely charged or convicted and believes that any and all death penalty convicts should have the right to have these tests done to prove innocence and paid for by the state/locale they are incarcerated in. I don't want an innocent person put to death. But, death to me is just punishment for these types of crimes. I do not support the death penalty for minors (at the time of the crime or otherwise), for developmentally delayed or mentally ill persons. Sociopaths do not fall under this distinction. I do believe that POC are far more often and convicted of all crimes and that is just plain wrong. I also know that other people are adamantly against the death penalty. I respect your feelings, yet disagree. Presently, in CA, the death penalty cannot be administered. We have had several periods in which these were stopped and death penalty related measure to vote on. In the past, I was against the death penalty. That all changed as I worked as a victim’s rights advocate for child sexual abuse and later as an expert witness. Of course, I have a bias. Yes, have been the victim of violent crime and know others that have been personally. We all do come to personal conclusions based upon our life experiences.

08-29-2011, 02:46 PM	#12
LaneyDoll Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Girly girl femme Preferred Pronoun?: She; Ma'am; Miss ;) Relationship Status: Pitbull protected. Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 2,204 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,892 Thanked 7,689 Times in 1,610 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	Today is really not the day for me to answer this question. Earlier today, I read the story about a 10 year old boy whose parents punished him for wetting the bed, by holding all his liquids for 5 days in 100 degree plus Texas summer heat. His BROTHER (same age or close) watched it happen and even noted that when the poor child was fed peanut butter, the parents refused to allow him liquids. The same brother feared offering help b/c the parents may punish him too. So, do I have objections to the death penalty? Hell no! In fact today, I wish the punishment was more fitting the crime. __________________ There are beauties who stop traffic and then there are beauties who grow obsessively in the hearts of the susceptible. Last edited by LaneyDoll; 08-29-2011 at 02:53 PM.

08-29-2011, 02:58 PM	#13
Gráinne Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Neither, nada, out of the box Preferred Pronoun?: My name always works Relationship Status: Happy whatever happens Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Little Rock Posts: 1,818 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,011 Thanked 7,246 Times in 1,416 Posts Rep Power: 21474851	No, not as our justice system is currently organized. POC, poor, and the mentally deficient are convicted of capital crimes much more than non-POC and/or wealthy who can afford top council. If we're going to have the death penalty at all, let's make it more immediate. If a criminal is finally executed 10-15 years later, that's meaningless. It's also horrifically expensive to go through appeal after appeal. I don't want my tax money going for that. If it is a deterrent, what are the violent crime rates compared to other countries with no death penalty, adjusted for population? I don't think it is. I'd rather see a complete reorganization and reform of the justice system, abolishing parole and release for "good behavior", and while we're at it, a much more humane way to deal with the mentally ill than prison. Still, I admit there's no answer for a sociopath. __________________ The odds of going to the store for a loaf of bread and coming out with only a loaf of bread are three billion to one. ~Erma Bombeck

08-29-2011, 03:23 PM	#14
Reader Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Butch, Dyke, Feminist, Contrarian Preferred Pronoun?: She, her Relationship Status: Single Join Date: May 2011 Location: New Jersey, The Garden State Posts: 732 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,308 Thanked 2,229 Times in 586 Posts Rep Power: 0	Oh, my. This thread again.

08-29-2011, 04:17 PM	#15
Luv Member How Do You Identify?: .... Relationship Status: .. Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: ..... Posts: 753 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,199 Thanked 1,216 Times in 366 Posts Rep Power: 12334991	My friends Lori and John were murdered in the 80's..2 men involed,,the one that did the rape and sodomy got a slap on the hand cause he testified against the guy that did it. My friends were beaten,burnt,duct taped ,raped,,sodomized in front of their 1 1/2 yr old and 6 day old children..these kids were left orphaned...death penalty,,hell yea,,and Id volunteer to do it,,they did nothing to deserve this,,the man that did it deserves to have done to him what he did to them http://sloblogs.thetribunenews.com/s...nced-to-death/ http://www.sanluisobispo.com/2010/02...-to-death.html Last edited by Luv; 08-29-2011 at 04:28 PM.

08-29-2011, 04:59 PM	#16
MissPriss Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: she Relationship Status: only lasting realtionship I have is with my job, my gun and my truck. Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Tennessee Posts: 566 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 789 Thanked 581 Times in 259 Posts Rep Power: 2223293	What should I start with? First I have been a victim of a violent crime and have family that were victims to violent crime. When I was 17 years old my twin sister was murdered due to some stupid bitch bein drugged and having an a self-esteem problem. As a result my entire adult life has been spent in some type of law enforcement. I have seen many things, know many victims, know many ppl convicted of murder. Do I think that there are different types of murder? Yes, absolutely. My sister was gunned down by someone that didnt like the way her boyfriend looked at my sister! My sister didnt ask to be looked at nor did she pay him any mind, she was walking down the street talking to me at the time and never glanced in his direction. Would I love to see her killer fried, injected, hung? Any of those would do! However, because her killer suffered abuse from her boyfriend that she didnt want anyone looking at she took a plea and was sentenced to 20 years!!! Is that enough? Not by far!!! She was 25 years old when she shot my sister and that was 14 years ago. She only has 6 more to go and she will be 45 when she is released and still have plenty of her life to live. My sister missed out on lots of things that seem to simple to most of us that were able to have them....she didnt get to go to her senior prom, she didnt get to graduate, she didnt get to turn 18, she never celebrated her 21st bday, never fell in love. She had many decisions left to make and in an instant over petty bullshit someone else made every single decision for her!! Has her killer ever made any attempt to even show that she feels bad in any way? NO....ppl who can mindlessly murder someone can not feel bad, they can live out the rest of their days in prison, in a crazy hospital, whatever......and NEVER give what they have done another thought! .........also recently in LA a FATHER cut his sons head off and he was a disabled child! His life was ended by someone that was supposed to love and protect him! Should he get the needle...absolutely and I would like to think that I could give it to him and go to bed with a smile on my face! Justice is just that and if justice were given and I mean really given for those that are innocent victims the world would be a better place! When a judge give a death sentence what does that actually mean??? It means that the person sentenced gets to go to prison and exhaust every single appeal and every little detail that they can hang on to keep their ass breathing! All the while, the murder victim is DEAD...gone without any appeal they cant ask to come back! Children that are horribly abused and violated have to deal with the physical and emotional pain and scars left from those who attacked and violated them. Most of them so tormented that they end up taking their own lives while the predator pleas for his/hers and gets out of prison to do the same thing to another!! I am for the death penalty and Im proud of that! AT times I wish that I wasnt but nothing in me can be that forgiving. Now just so it doesnt look like Im just a pissed off sister that wants the blood of the woman that took my sister away. I will share something else. My best friend is on death row for the murder of his father. Yes he is still my very dearest friend!! Do I think he should die for that? Yes and No. Yes, because he took another life and never blinked an eye and he doesnt feel bad for it either. No, because he pushed that point! HE was abused and molested for the majority of his life! HE was taken out of his fathers home multiple times and sent back! His father was sentenced to 3 years in prison for child abuse when he was 12yrs old. His father was released from prison when he was almost 14, didnt even serve the full sentence. After being out 6 months and taking a few classes.....he was shoved right back in to his fathers home for the abuse and molestation to pick right back up. His father was investigated 5 times within the first year and he was removed from the home 2 of those times. Long story short that kept going on over and over until he was 16 and his father bought him a gun for his upcoming 17th birthday that was 2 days away! He waited till the sorry bastard went to sleep and put a bullet in his head. He is now on death row....because he took a life....he took a life because JUSTICE failed the VICTIM......He has to pay for what he done and that doesnt turn me against the death penalty....but that makes him a VICTIM X 2! __________________ Keep the trucks muddy and the Cowbois sexy!!