2020 Presidential Election

[C0LLETTE]

That is clear-eyed realpolitik. Thank you.

Figure out how to get there. Strategy is often not the strongest attribute of the Left as they get pushed further and further out into the weeds by the Right.

You'd think this was obvious to the Left and to the Democrats, but it seems not. How hard can it be to figure that out? If you keep pounding out your point and stop being distracted, ppl will tune out all that other crap. Find your own Kelly Anne Conway ... just as skilled but not as morally corrupt.

I know that it's not as sweet to win through "impure means" ( and there are plenty of ethical/moral arguments about that ) but sometimes, "winning is all" and start from there.

[C0LLETTE]

oops, I was replying to dark-crystal's post.

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by Martina

I recall Rachel pretty much shaking with anger talking about Bernie supporters. I recall her saying in a really snarky way that they didn't understand the TPP. One time she was criticizing Bernie for some inconsistency as she saw it, and one of her own wonks fact checked her. I think she showed her ass re Bernie.

I haven't seen the Beto video. I think that Bernie's message re jobs, taxing the rich, Medicare for all, free college, and fighting corporate corruption of politics is the way to go. Clearly, depending on social justice issues alone didn't work. But Bernie is solid on those as well, IMO. Any candidate the Democrats field is likely to be.

Originally Posted by C0LLETTE

That is clear-eyed realpolitik. Thank you.

Figure out how to get there. Strategy is often not the strongest attribute of the Left as they get pushed further and further out into the weeds by the Right.

You'd think this was obvious to the Left and to the Democrats, but it seems not. How hard can it be to figure that out? If you keep pounding out your point and stop being distracted, ppl will tune out all that other crap. Find your own Kelly Anne Conway ... just as skilled but not as morally corrupt.

I know that it's not as sweet to win through "impure means" ( and there are plenty of ethical/moral arguments about that ) but sometimes, "winning is all" and start from there.

It seems like a unique opportunity to me because there should be no need to even engage Trump. We know his tricks, and he can't count on the disruptive novelty factor that he had last time, because he never stopped doing that. He never even stopped doing rallies. His campaign is already going on. It is completely our choice how and with whom to take the battle to him.

The democrats can set literally any agenda they choose. Making it about jobs, taxing the rich, Medicare for all, free college, and fighting corporate corruption, and refusing to talk about anything else would be easy and effective.

It will be the GOP who run on social issues. Even their economic platform usually has hate somewhere at the heart of it, via cutting taxes by punishing freeloaders, etc. Also they have to keep the religious right and the 2a people, and you need hate for gays and "thugs" to do that.

We can ignore it all, because their candidate is weak. He can't run on his record and his agenda holds no surprises. Every democrat is already on the record about all of it. Nobody needs to respond to him in any way. This is what was disappointing about Warren's DNA test.

[C0LLETTE]

Want to elect a winning Democratic President?

Find a good-looking white guy with a good-looking wife and a few good-looking kids.

Write all his speeches for him.Tell him to keep his mouth shut at all other times and his hands down his own pants. Shove your hand up his ass and make his mouth move when necessary. Fact is, none of the "presentables" are as smart and worthy as the "uglies ". So just go for a Ken doll and find a few ugly folks with progressive ideas to stand behind the curtain and do some telepathy and ventriloquism.

"Camelot" was the beginning of the Hollywood aspiration presidency...the handsome president leading his handsome people who all knew that under that mantle was a really good-guy who only wanted the best for them...and he made them feel proud cause he "looked good" on stage..

Has anyone considered drafting George Clooney recently? He sure looks good. That's likely good for 40% of the vote right there, even before his running shoes touch the starter-blocks. ( He can adopt some cute kids later.)

[kittygrrl]

Free College is a nice idea but unless we get a Democrat in the White House, win 61 seats in the Senate and sweep the House, not very likely..and forget Medicare for all..our country isn't ready for that much social change yet. Besides, Medicare is almost broke, Social Security without fixes will be in deep trouble by the mid 2020's. And we are looking at a 23-25 trillion dollar deficit in 2021. I'm not saying these things won't ever be possible but probably not in my lifetime or for those over 30. I wish these things were already in place but society (as a whole) isn't ready. Currently we have too much debt, baby boomer political power will have to be neutralized and societal norms have to change drastically before these things can be a possibility

[C0LLETTE]

Originally Posted by kittygrrl

Free College is a nice idea but unless we get a Democrat in the White House, win 61 seats in the Senate and sweep the House, not very likely..and forget Medicare for all..our country isn't ready for that much social change yet. Besides, Medicare is almost broke, Social Security without fixes will be in deep trouble by the mid 2020's. And we are looking at a 23-25 trillion dollar deficit in 2021. I'm not saying these things won't ever be possible but probably not in my lifetime and perhaps not in the Millennials lifetime either.

Then maybe it's time to get dirty. Lie about the true agenda. Say nice soothing things. Get elected and work on the agenda in the shadows till the power is there. The electorate's memory seems very short. Maybe they'll forgive the lies once they get the benefits. Seems to have worked for others. Politics is a dirty business. Getting elected in front of 380 million people is even dirtier. Particularly if the vast majority are dumb as dirt or don't give a shit. ( Why are so many afraid to say that?)

[Martina]

We just had a tax cut that could have paid for these things. We've thrown away enough to pay for these things twenty times over in war and tax breaks. It's not at all out of the range of the possible. Polls show the majority of Americans support Medicare for all. It could happen by 2021. That was the whole point of a post I made previously about how people have forgotten how many progressive policies were considered mainstream forty years ago.

The point is the money, and we have it if we'd stop letting the rich out of paying their fair share. We wouldn't be in this position if mainstream Dems had not handed our wealth over to banks and exported our jobs to benefit corporations. The world is NOT the one mainstream Dems describe where we are doomed to poverty because of the irresistible workings of a global economy.

Re having a puppet, we've had those. Reagan and W. It doesn't tend to work out well. People love Bernie, and he is not handsome. In spite of our having elected Trump, most of us do take our government and electoral process seriously. While our political process and politicians may seem a joke to some, we are not alone. The world is struggling with these issues. I'd rather be facing something like Brexit than have Trump as President, but honestly, Trump will be gone in two years, and they're going to have a hell of a time undoing Brexit.

And while there are many dumb and apathetic Americans, we are not unique in these qualities.

I have to say that as disturbing as it has been to see all of the racism post Trump (I am white. I was in denial.), we don't hold a candle to France, for example. Even Scandinavian countries don't have a clue how to live in a multi-cultural society. Their non-native speakers drop out of high school in numbers that make us look great. I read an article about Eastern Europe the other day, and they are sick of getting blamed for the rise of populism in Europe, but not long before that I saw a video of an orthodox priest justifying segregation. Not a right wing fanatic, just an ordinary guy to whom it seemed obvious that people would not want to mix with folk from other races . The U.S. has a long and bloody history of racism, but we've actually learned a lot.

[cathexis]

Originally Posted by C0LLETTE

Then maybe it's time to get dirty. Lie about the true agenda. Say nice soothing things. Get elected and work on the agenda in the shadows till the power is there. The electorate's memory seems very short. Maybe they'll forgive the lies once they get the benefits. Seems to have worked for others. Politics is a dirty business. Getting elected in front of 380 million people is even dirtier. Particularly if the vast majority are dumb as dirt or don't give a shit. ( Why are so many afraid to say that?)

Maybe it's because, you play a good game of pin the donkey (elephant). His base is the 1st graders in the room. What deplorables! First graders have more ability to evaluate trust v con

[cathexis]

Originally Posted by C0LLETTE

Then maybe it's time to get dirty. Lie about the true agenda. Say nice soothing things. Get elected and work on the agenda in the shadows till the power is there. The electorate's memory seems very short. Maybe they'll forgive the lies once they get the benefits. Seems to have worked for others. Politics is a dirty business. Getting elected in front of 380 million people is even dirtier. Particularly if the vast majority are dumb as dirt or don't give a shit. ( Why are so many afraid to say that?)

When we legitimize playing dirty and lying in order to further our cause, we are no longer a Constitutional Democracy true to what the Founding Fathers were trying to create in our country. When the country advocates going against it's principles, we widen the crevasse to a canyon permitting right wing and fascist ideologies to further chip away at our democratic principles.

The electorate has awakened and begun to care again. We just need to assure that they vote the path of freedom instead of towards the right or "alt-right" to a more Nationalistic and Populist form of government which would lead to a more xenophobic, racist, and homophobic insular society. If the rural "silent majority" gives us another reactionary blindside, we are really in trouble. I hope this "blue wave" is sustained. We can be celebratory and elated, but looking out the back to Check Six is a prudent move given the 2016 shock.

[WheatToast]

Originally Posted by kittygrrl

Free College is a nice idea but unless we get a Democrat in the White House, win 61 seats in the Senate and sweep the House, not very likely..and forget Medicare for all..our country isn't ready for that much social change yet. Besides, Medicare is almost broke, Social Security without fixes will be in deep trouble by the mid 2020's. And we are looking at a 23-25 trillion dollar deficit in 2021. I'm not saying these things won't ever be possible but probably not in my lifetime or for those over 30. I wish these things were already in place but society (as a whole) isn't ready. Currently we have too much debt, baby boomer political power will have to be neutralized and societal norms have to change drastically before these things can be a possibility

Medicare and Social Security are not broke, not even close. If the GOP simply stops trying to raid both piggy banks to divert funds in order to further their agenda, we be cool.