Safety in a Failing Economy

[Blade]

I wouldn't have a problem with this type of living. Ya see.........

My Grandpa taught me how to live off the land

I live back in the woods
I've got a shotgun a rifle
and a four wheel drive
I can plow a field all day long
I can catch catfish from dusk til dawn
Ain't too many things this ole boy can't do

We grow good ole tomatoes and homemade wine
you can't starve us out
and you can't make us run
Cause we's them ole boys raised on shotguns
And we can skin a buck
we can run a trout line

That's how "Hank" put it I'll just add that I'm pretty handy and can do most anything. Growing my own meat or walking in the woods killing it, whatever way it comes I can deal with it. I garden and can. To be honest my biggest set back is POWER. Not for lights or TV but to run the pump so I can have water LOL. So I guess as long as I had a well or running stream where I could get water I'd be ok. Growing up we ate quite a bit of fish and wildlife I don't have a problem dressing it out, but I'd have to wash my hands LOL yeah a country boy can survive

[Sachita]

Great info! I just got in after having to drive an hour to fetch organic food.
I'll need to come back and reply to a few post but wanted to say this to the people who say they are not handy or not outdoors people...


12 years ago I wore 4 inch heels, big hair and never left the house without makeup. I knew a bit about camping and fishing but nothing about living in the country, taking care of animals or any of that shit. When I first moved out to the everglades, my first real attempt at rural living, I thought I would have a break down. I had no idea what to do and things I never expected happened. But you know what? I did it. I cried, screamed and taught myself everything. Books and the internet didn't help me nearly as much as trial and error. Was it easy? hell no. Is it easy now? NO. BUT I can't even describe the level of freedom I have or the woman all of this has made me. My connections are stronger and even though now I can afford to pay someone, I also love the fact that if I needed to do it I could.

Nothing compares to challenging yourself. Nothing compares to the connection you might be missing with the universe. Get outside, explore and learn how to work with nature.

[SoNotHer]

I appreciate the honesty of this, Miss Tick. Einstein said, “I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious.” That's what matters. Stay curious and interested. Everyone starts at a beginning.

I'd like to see a future Planetary gathering to be an offering of homesteading, off-the-grid, permaculture and survival classes. Hint, hint Sachita

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

I have to admit that stuff like this is very intimidating to me. I am not handy. As a matter of fact I am actually the exact opposite of handy. Everything I have ever tried to put together, I have screwed up. Sometimes it’s usable, sometimes only parts of it are.

I put this storage cabinet together but I put the shelves in upside down and the cans would slide off because it slanted in the wrong direction. But if you kept the doors, which I managed to put on right, closed it was okay.

Another time I put together this tv stand that had shelves and doors but when I finished you couldn’t use the doors. Unfortunately for some reason I wasn’t able to take it apart and fix it so the person I made it for was stuck with it like that. She didn’t make me feel bad and even thanked me but I don’t remember her ever asking me to put anything together again. Nobody ever does. At least not more than once.

They have come for my butch card but I always manage to hide.

I can paint though, but then who can’t? As long as one’s hands work it shouldn’t be an issue. I couldn’t build the tiny house or do any meaningful work on it, but I could paint the crap out of it.

I fixed a doll cradle I got at a yard sale once. It was off balance. So I took it apart and glued ( I can use glue, but not nails so much) it back together so it rocked and didn’t lean to one side…well not much anyway. And I painted it pink and white with flowers. So I guess I could do useless stuff like that. Not much need for doll cradles though when you are in survival mode.

I won’t even go into my experiences trying to grow stuff. Suffice to say everything dies. I mean I know everything dies, but the things I try to grow never even get a chance to live first.

I can fish though. And hunt if I have to. I am a good shot. I prefer shooting skeet or trap or other target shooting. Balloons blown up and put on water, a lake or a pond will take off right quick and it’s big fun to shoot them with a 22 before they get out of sight. However, I don’t like killing things much. I can do it though. And if I am hungry it probably wouldn’t be a problem at all. But that would be the extent of my ability to survive.

So as much as I love the woods and the outdoors in general, especially any kind of water, I wouldn’t trust my ability to survive on my own. Well, I can start fires and hunt and fish so I would have a very high protein diet. Better than no diet at all.

Truthfully I feel so inadequate around this kind of stuff, I mostly don’t even think about trying anything. I’m all thumbs. But that doesn’t mean I don’t want to live should the shit hit the fan. So I will just stay quiet and keep reading.

[dykeumentary]

Originally Posted by SoNotHer

I appreciate the honesty of this, Miss Tick. Einstein said, “I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious.” That's what matters. Stay curious and interested. Everyone starts at a beginning.

I'd like to see a future Planetary gathering to be an offering of homesteading, off-the-grid, permaculture and survival classes. Hint, hint Sachita

Hell yes! Let's all gather at Sachita's and share skills and slow food! Let's do it!

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by dykeumentary

Hell yes! Let's all gather at Sachita's and share skills and slow food! Let's do it!

Mi casa yo casa- have at it. I have 25 acres back there, 30 total, nice creek, greenhouse, all waiting to be used.

what is slow food? lol is that a typo?

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by SoNotHer

I appreciate the honesty of this, Miss Tick. Einstein said, “I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious.” That's what matters. Stay curious and interested. Everyone starts at a beginning.

I'd like to see a future Planetary gathering to be an offering of homesteading, off-the-grid, permaculture and survival classes. Hint, hint Sachita

don't take classes- submerge yourself into life and survive that!

but seriously, any time you wanna tackle it, pitch a tent, yurt, rv out here and learn/work, have at it. I don't wanna see no cry babies though. lol ok ok go ahead and cry then get up and do it again.

I'm open to any kind of class or get together involving sustainability, outdoors, survival, gardening, (I suck at preserving so someone else needs to teach that)

[Sachita]

you can even live in my woods long as you take care of it and help me garden. If you eat eggs you gotta also clean the coop now and then,

[atomiczombie]

What I keep thinking about as I read this thread is that most poor people simply can't do this kind of stuff. They have no land where they can grow food. They have no money to buy disaster supplies. They get by on so little that keeping a roof over their heads and food in their mouths is hard enough, let alone investing time and money into gardening and solar power, etc. I like the idea of community gardens, but they aren't enough to keep people regularly fed.

In disasters, it's always the poorest of the poor (and disproportionately, those people are POC) who get hit the hardest. I am thinking of Katrina here as an example. They couldn't prepare and get out because they had no cars/gas money, etc to get out before the hurricane hit. People who are poor and live in urban areas would have the hardest time pulling off sustainable living. It's sad but true.

[Sachita]

what can't poor people do?

when faced with a economic challenge and unable to import food, Havana, Cuba ( a poor country) did this:




There are plenty of farms outside NYC cheap and or offering ANYONE a chance to farm free, live and work, partner. Maybe its true that they don't have knowledge of all the resources but they are most certainly there.

I don't think I even want to depend on solar. I like the idea of it now because I'm conditioned to use power, however if shit really hot the fan or the cost of EVERYTHING went up, can you afford the parts to upkeep solar?

I know a couple living in Maine who go to bed when it gets dark. They heat and cook with wood. They use some gas to power their boat to fish. They collect lots of things to eat in the water and woods, preserve it and when they can they grow and can. They can't afford too much else. They are happy and doing what they love. They don't have to worry about losing a job, right? lol

[Rockinonahigh]

My uncle told me once that no matter who or where u wre if u get with like mindes people chances of servival are better,u may not think u have anything to offer in skills but u will be surprised at the things u will be able to do.Just use this as a pretend..im choping wood others can be stacking it by sise or help in cooking,cleaning or jusy giveing moral support besides as the group progresses new skill can be learned by those who want to do do,asfar as im conserned "cant" dose not exist.

[dykeumentary]

Originally Posted by Sachita

Mi casa yo casa- have at it. I have 25 acres back there, 30 total, nice creek, greenhouse, all waiting to be used.

what is slow food? lol is that a typo?

Found this online:
"What is Slow Food?
Slow Food is an idea, a way of living and a way of eating. It is a global, grassroots movement with thousands of members around the world that links the pleasure of food with a commitment to community and the environment."

But mostly my friends use "slow food" as a way to describe the pleasure- and THE WORK - of food that they grew themselves, foraged for, traded for, made for themselves by canning or pickling.... Etc.
We use that term as a way to express the commitment to ourselves that we don't find virtue (or good flavors) in "buying" food in 21st-century-US-supermarket-ways.

Sounds stuffy to describe, but it's fun, interesting and home-brewed beer makes the girls go crazy!

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by dykeumentary

Found this online:
"What is Slow Food?
Slow Food is an idea, a way of living and a way of eating. It is a global, grassroots movement with thousands of members around the world that links the pleasure of food with a commitment to community and the environment."

But mostly my friends use "slow food" as a way to describe the pleasure- and THE WORK - of food that they grew themselves, foraged for, traded for, made for themselves by canning or pickling.... Etc.
We use that term as a way to express the commitment to ourselves that we don't find virtue (or good flavors) in "buying" food in 21st-century-US-supermarket-ways.

Sounds stuffy to describe, but it's fun, interesting and home-brewed beer makes the girls go crazy!

I love it!

[Blade]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

What I keep thinking about as I read this thread is that most poor people simply can't do this kind of stuff. They have no land where they can grow food. They have no money to buy disaster supplies. They get by on so little that keeping a roof over their heads and food in their mouths is hard enough, let alone investing time and money into gardening and solar power, etc. I like the idea of community gardens, but they aren't enough to keep people regularly fed.

In disasters, it's always the poorest of the poor (and disproportionately, those people are POC) who get hit the hardest. I am thinking of Katrina here as an example. They couldn't prepare and get out because they had no cars/gas money, etc to get out before the hurricane hit. People who are poor and live in urban areas would have the hardest time pulling off sustainable living. It's sad but true.

My grandparents were poor but they was proud folk. This is where folks learn to take care of one another. One hand washes the other. People will share their seed with one another, they would share their canned or dried or cured meat with one another. You can only eat so much so fast and you don't want it to go bad before it's eaten. It doesn't take a lot of land to have a garden. You can use boxes, hay bales, drink crates, buckets anything you can throw some dirt in. I think one of the things people don't realize is how much waste there is in gardening, now during modern times. You plant it, it grows, you give some away, eat some can or freeze some and you are tired of fooling with it and you let it grow up. Back in the day you didn't do that. You ate from the garden until the frost got it and if you were smart you covered the delicate things and got up just before the sun and turned the water on the garden to get the frost off the plants. Best thing to do is plant a fall garden in the shade and it will make it threw several frosty days, and the very best thing to do is only plant the hardy green stuff in the fall. But again as for land you don't have to have a bunch of land to make a garden. My Dad plants his around the eaves of his house. And there are many things you can put in rows together if you do have a tiny plot of land to work with, example plant corn and when it comes up plant green beans in the corn, the beans will crawl the corn, you have 2 crops in one row.

Sachita I haven't noticed or seen you say that you are but I hope you are saving and turning and drying that chicken poop and tilling it in with your garden or whatever soil you are using. It's to stout to put straight on your garden ya have to let it dry out. Alpaca poop is the best thing in the world for organic gardening and you can put it straight on the garden.

[dykeumentary]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

What I keep thinking about as I read this thread is that most poor people simply can't do this kind of stuff. They have no land where they can grow food. They have no money to buy disaster supplies. They get by on so little that keeping a roof over their heads and food in their mouths is hard enough, let alone investing time and money into gardening and solar power, etc. I like the idea of community gardens, but they aren't enough to keep people regularly fed.

In disasters, it's always the poorest of the poor (and disproportionately, those people are POC) who get hit the hardest. I am thinking of Katrina here as an example. They couldn't prepare and get out because they had no cars/gas money, etc to get out before the hurricane hit. People who are poor and live in urban areas would have the hardest time pulling off sustainable living. It's sad but true.

Hi-
I do not mean to pick on your post. You just expressed what a lot of people think, because of a system that has an absolute interest in keeping people "victims".
The point is: There is no alternative. The way capitalism destroys earth, and everything on it can't continue. Having an opinion that "poor people can't live sustainable lives" not only takes away their agency and shows a lack of confidence in their resiliency and ingenuity, but it diverts attention away from the institutional systems in place that inhibit them (and or legally forbid) them from acting in their own best interest. Health department red tape about selling/trading food you've grown, anyone?

It's clear that poor people get hit hardest by everything, including situations like the levees failing in the poor neighborhoods of New Orleans. (I refuse to call it "katrina"- it was corps-of-engineered racism.) but it's also clear that there are millions (billions?) more poor people than rich people, so they must be smart enough to figure out survival techniques, no?

What I, as a white US citizen see my role as is this:
Consume less. Grow more, eat what I grow and help others do the same.
Support anti-oppression organizing at local, national and international levels.
Expose and dismantle systems that keep peolple from using their local resources in their own interests.
Use the information and resources so richly available to me as a US citizen to figure out ways to heal the earth, try to make sure this info is shared fairly.

I'm not some pie-in-the-sky intellectual. I build and fix things for an hourly wage. I think it's because of working at that level that is easy to see when shit needs to be ripped down and rebuilt, rather than patched. And also to see when structures can be repaired or re-purposed in service of a more worthy goal.

[atomiczombie]

Originally Posted by dykeumentary

Hi-
I do not mean to pick on your post. You just expressed what a lot of people think, because of a system that has an absolute interest in keeping people "victims".
The point is: There is no alternative. The way capitalism destroys earth, and everything on it can't continue. Having an opinion that "poor people can't live sustainable lives" not only takes away their agency and shows a lack of confidence in their resiliency and ingenuity, but it diverts attention away from the institutional systems in place that inhibit them (and or legally forbid) them from acting in their own best interest. Health department red tape about selling/trading food you've grown, anyone?

It's clear that poor people get hit hardest by everything, including situations like the levees failing in the poor neighborhoods of New Orleans. (I refuse to call it "katrina"- it was corps-of-engineered racism.) but it's also clear that there are millions (billions?) more poor people than rich people, so they must be smart enough to figure out survival techniques, no?

What I, as a white US citizen see my role as is this:
Consume less. Grow more, eat what I grow and help others do the same.
Support anti-oppression organizing at local, national and international levels.
Expose and dismantle systems that keep peolple from using their local resources in their own interests.
Use the information and resources so richly available to me as a US citizen to figure out ways to heal the earth, try to make sure this info is shared fairly.

I'm not some pie-in-the-sky intellectual. I build and fix things for an hourly wage. I think it's because of working at that level that is easy to see when shit needs to be ripped down and rebuilt, rather than patched. And also to see when structures can be repaired or re-purposed in service of a more worthy goal.

I am not saying the poor can't do things. They are as capable as anyone. I guess I am just thinking, that when you work 2 minimum wage jobs to keep a roof over you and your children's heads, worry about how to get them clothes for school, can't afford a babysitter, can't afford a doctor, having to apply for food stamps, etc., how is one to have any time or energy to put into sustainable living?

[dykeumentary]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

I am not saying the poor can't do things. They are as capable as anyone. I guess I am just thinking, that when you work 2 minimum wage jobs to keep a roof over you and your children's heads, worry about how to get them clothes for school, can't afford a babysitter, can't afford a doctor, having to apply for food stamps, etc., how is one to have any time or energy to put into sustainable living?

Ok, so what do you suggest? Let's talk about what we CAN do.

[SoNotHer]

Good reference. Cuba is the post Peak Oil model, and if anyone hasn't seen the documentary "The Power of Community," you should. It's inspiring.

Originally Posted by Sachita

what can't poor people do?

when faced with a economic challenge and unable to import food, Havana, Cuba ( a poor country) did this:




There are plenty of farms outside NYC cheap and or offering ANYONE a chance to farm free, live and work, partner. Maybe its true that they don't have knowledge of all the resources but they are most certainly there.

I don't think I even want to depend on solar. I like the idea of it now because I'm conditioned to use power, however if shit really hot the fan or the cost of EVERYTHING went up, can you afford the parts to upkeep solar?

I know a couple living in Maine who go to bed when it gets dark. They heat and cook with wood. They use some gas to power their boat to fish. They collect lots of things to eat in the water and woods, preserve it and when they can they grow and can. They can't afford too much else. They are happy and doing what they love. They don't have to worry about losing a job, right? lol

[SoNotHer]

Part of my vision with my farm involved teaching, learning and sharing. My farm has to be put on hold for now, but I would be happy to help support a gathering at Sachita's or elsewhere.

I understand your point, Drew, and I know people have to make choices they don't always want to. But seeds cost almost nothing, and even if you don't have land, you probably have a window and a pot. I grew a garden in different rented spaces, and I consumed less, recycled, walked or biked, read botany books and made other choices that didn't involve a lot of time or expense.

Originally Posted by dykeumentary

Hell yes! Let's all gather at Sachita's and share skills and slow food! Let's do it!

[atomiczombie]

Originally Posted by dykeumentary

Ok, so what do you suggest? Let's talk about what we CAN do.

I honestly don't know. I think there are so many things that need to happen to lift up the people in poverty in the US. A lot of those things are being addressed by the Occupy movement right now. I think it would be great if we all had some option to "live off the grid" so to speak. I am not the best at being able to answer your question because I happen to be someone with very little money myself.

I live with my folks and I am on disability. They live in a planned community where the home owners association tells you what you can and can't do with your tiny front and back yards. Anything you do to your home, including what color you paint it, is dictated by the HOA here. And my folks are retired and don't have the physical ability to plant anything. They pay people to mow their lawn every week. I have agoraphobia so going out of the house isn't exactly easy for me. I don't mind trying to fix things or putting them together as long as I am in the house.

I think all the ideas put forth in this thread are great. I just don't know how people without much in the way of resources (such as moi) would be able to put them into practice. Does that somehow offend you dykeumentary?

[SugarFemme]

In my opinion, and speaking as a low income person, what I have often thought of is low income people need to pool resources like they did in old days. If you take 3-4 peoples income, abilities, and talents and have them share a home, food etc, they would be much better off. If one person is disabled and cannot do gardening, then maybe they can be in charge of bills. The person who is not so good with finances could take care of the gardening and so on. We live in such singular society that people are not so open to revisiting the past where it was a much more nuclear family situation. Just a thought.

Originally Posted by dykeumentary

Ok, so what do you suggest? Let's talk about what we CAN do.