Safety in a Failing Economy

[SoNotHer]

There's a great book entitled, Everything I Want to Do is Illegal. The HOAs have, in their infinite wisdom, made everything from hanging up clothes on a line to growing vegetables in your front yard a crime. This must and will change.

I appreciate you've got limited choices, Drew. I've had no car and taken two hour and half bus rides to work. I've slept on an old mattress on a floor with one sheet. I've gotten down to two cans of food in the cupboard, and I've had no place to live.

Obviously, when I was bouncing between a friend's couch and a vacant house and a friend's basement, I wasn't thinking about living off the grid or participating in a CSA. But the moment I had a rental contract and a place to stay, I was planting.

These times reinforced for me the idea of frugality and the value of "repurposing" of things. But I first learned to save and reuse from my mother who survived the Great Depression at least in part because she and the aunts she lived with were eating from their garden.

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

I honestly don't know. I think there are so many things that need to happen to lift up the people in poverty in the US. A lot of those things are being addressed by the Occupy movement right now. I think it would be great if we all had some option to "live off the grid" so to speak. I am not the best at being able to answer your question because I happen to be someone with very little money myself.

I live with my folks and I am on disability. They live in a planned community where the home owners association tells you what you can and can't do with your tiny front and back yards. Anything you do to your home, including what color you paint it, is dictated by the HOA here. And my folks are retired and don't have the physical ability to plant anything. They pay people to mow their lawn every week. I have agoraphobia so going out of the house isn't exactly easy for me. I don't mind trying to fix things or putting them together as long as I am in the house.

I think all the ideas put forth in this thread are great. I just don't know how people without much in the way of resources (such as moi) would be able to put them into practice. Does that somehow offend you dykeumentary?

[Sachita]

It might not be easy, however I believe we can do anything we really want to do. Instead of being forced to do it, having no choice, choose to do it and be prepared.

I spent most of my childhood, a poor girl in the ghetto, people telling me I can't do this and that. Thank Goddess I didnt believe them.

There is always a way. You have to want it bad enough. I believe you do or you wouldnt be here.

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by OneOfAKind

In my opinion, and speaking as a low income person, what I have often thought of is low income people need to pool resources like they did in old days. If you take 3-4 peoples income, abilities, and talents and have them share a home, food etc, they would be much better off. If one person is disabled and cannot do gardening, then maybe they can be in charge of bills. The person who is not so good with finances could take care of the gardening and so on. We live in such singular society that people are not so open to revisiting the past where it was a much more nuclear family situation. Just a thought.

this is exactly what you should be doing. We have moved away from hands on community models and we need to return. Network, devise a small team not only for help but moral and emotional support.

As Blade said "This is where folks learn to take care of one another."

what a very beautiful thing. When was the last time someone took care of you?



and Blade- of course I save my poops! silly boy!

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by SoNotHer

There's a great book entitled, Everything I Want to Do is Illegal. The HOAs have, in their infinite wisdom, made everything from hanging up clothes on a line to growing vegetables in your front yard a crime. This must and will change.

I appreciate you've got limited choices, Drew. I've had no car and taken two hour and half bus rides to work. I've slept on an old mattress on a floor with one sheet. I've gotten down to two cans of food in the cupboard, and I've had no place to live.

Obviously, when I was bouncing between a friend's couch and a vacant house and a friend's basement, I wasn't thinking about living off the grid or participating in a CSA. But the moment I had a rental contract and a place to stay, I was planting.

These times reinforced for me the idea of frugality and the value of "repurposing" of things. But I first learned to save and reuse from my mother who survived the Great Depression at least in part because she and the aunts she lived with were eating from their garden.

I could not live in a HOA environment, however the times I considered creating some type of community out here I wondered how we'd approach this without so many rules. In order for people to live together collectively you must have some kind of guide. For instant I may not favor having a bunch of old cars close to my place or a lot of noise.

But I do think they take it too far when they deny someone's right to garden food. If a community like this doesnt suit your needs then find one that does.

FYI- I have a bunch of cheap shop light fixtures and those plant and aquarium bulbs. I have been successful growing all kinds of greens, bok choy, lettuce, etc in my basement. I might try growing tomatoes with them this year and hand pollinate the flowers. (its easy btw). It all depends if I get help soon or not. I need full time live in help. In fact I'm building my micro community.

Back on topic- you can get free 5 gallon buckets which make excellent grow containers. Let us get you hooked. If you have a small amount of money for some kind of lighting, I will personally ship you the seeds. Try one small edible plant and expand from there.

[Sachita]

Look at your overhead verses your income. Even if you have a low income are there ways you can save money and work towards sustainability?

For instance-

don't use paper towels, ziplock bags, etc. Use dish towels, containers.

Plan your trips to the store. Make a list ahead of what you need and go once a week.

Check your local farmers market and see if they offer coupons for disabled, retired, unemployed. Most do.

Check local farms and see if you can work out a labor trade program. Perhaps you can pull weeds, organize, clean, something? In exchange for fresh organic produce. Perhaps it only once a week and maybe you even have to take a bus but can you think of a better way to spend your day? You not only help the grass roots efforts but you help yourself. Don't waste their time. If you make a commitment stick to it. Contact them, offer to clean, do whatever they need in exchange of a box of produce of equal value.

Team up with a few friends to share meals or trade meals. Sit down, decide on a menu and health plan. When you cook there's always enough for a few meals. Make a budget with your team and share the expense and labor. Better yet sit down and share a meal or two per week.

Turn off lights, use supplemental heat when you can and heat the areas you are in. I stopped using central heat here at the farm and invested in infrared heater. I only turn them on when we need them and they are also in the dog areas set at 60 degrees. My electric bill has dropped a few hundred just doing this. I have a lot of power use because I work at home and my business (dog boarding) is at home.

Go to store offering bulk buys without packaging. Many of the health food stores offer this. You can also team up with a few local friends and purchase from bulkfoods.com they have lots of conventional and organic items.

Buy things on sale. Look online and see what stores carry organic things such as soups, beans, etc. things you can easily fix and also that store up to 2 years or longer. Check dates, buy extra on sale and begin your own stock pile.

Eat less- its amazing how much money we spend on food that will kill us.

If you are on disability consider moving to an area where the cost of living is a little cheaper and where you have good access to things. You have a wonderful resource here- get a few roommates also on disability, find affordable housing and share expenses.

more coming

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

I honestly don't know. I think there are so many things that need to happen to lift up the people in poverty in the US. A lot of those things are being addressed by the Occupy movement right now. I think it would be great if we all had some option to "live off the grid" so to speak. I am not the best at being able to answer your question because I happen to be someone with very little money myself.

I live with my folks and I am on disability. They live in a planned community where the home owners association tells you what you can and can't do with your tiny front and back yards. Anything you do to your home, including what color you paint it, is dictated by the HOA here. And my folks are retired and don't have the physical ability to plant anything. They pay people to mow their lawn every week. I have agoraphobia so going out of the house isn't exactly easy for me. I don't mind trying to fix things or putting them together as long as I am in the house.

I think all the ideas put forth in this thread are great. I just don't know how people without much in the way of resources (such as moi) would be able to put them into practice. Does that somehow offend you dykeumentary?

I don't think anyone is trying to offend or deny that some people have additional challenges to consider. I believe we confront them and find solutions. We also need to be sensitive to things we don't understand.

Atom I think you are exactly where you need to be. Your parents are your family and need you. There are things you can learn to help your family. Stop looking at the "can't do's" and focus on what you "can do". It won't hurt to learn and be prepared to protect you and your family. You don't need a lot of money to do this.

[Glenn]

For those of us who have not prepared at all and are reasonably healthy if/when SHTF, and really do not know anyone close by, please, at least have a bike, some munchies, a bag of your important things like meds, water, etc., and a hand gun with at least 200 rounds of ammo so you can have a chance to bug out to another town for supplies. Also, I'd like to personally thank Sachita again for offering up her land to our community. Farmland here in the midwest, has risen to nearly $6000 an acre.

[Dominique]

I'd like us to take a few minutes to look around us. There are people all around us who need help. This is so important. I'm big on paying forward. As I said in the OWS thread, those of us that can, SHOULD.

The people needing help, may not know how to ask for help. They do not have white handkerchiefs tied to their front door. They are suffering in silence. Something as little as a ride to the grocery store (this is the first of the month, and food stamps get recharged) can be huge to a person who is feeling defeated and doesn't have a car. If you can afford $1.50, buy them a cup a coffee at the grocery store and shop with them. It will make them feel human. Too often we take time spent with people, for granted. This simple thing could very well make some ones day. That same person, I save my coupons for. I also recycle my newspaper to them. Yes, I can read it on line....but I keep the newspaper delivery person working (and I can afford the newspaper @ the $1.00 a week special I got it for) it pays for itself in the coupons. It then goes to my neighbor, who is a vietnam vet and is on a portable 02 tank. It helps him pass his day.(reading the paper, doing the crossword puzzle and the sudoku) He hand rolls the news papers into small logs and passes them on to a buddy ...

This is a time when we have to pull together as a community, as neighbors. We have to reach out. Singles moms...do you realize how much you could help if you could buy some notebooks for the kids? Something we make a habit of doing, when we go to these professional outreach programs and they are giving away promotional pencils and pens (sometimes tablets) we put them in a designated spot, and we give them to a mom with a couple of kids every little bit helps.
How sad is it to be a kid and not have a pencil...or not have paper...(heartbreaking). This is something we always do. We buy pet food every time we grocery shop (treats too) what ever is on sale. We donate it to food drives. Familys hard on their luck, have pets...and it's extremely heartbreaking when your life is falling apart, to have to give up your pet because you can't buy it food. A $3.00/ 6 pak of canned food or bagged food isn't going to break us....and it's nice to give a big bagful of pet food to a food drive.

I took 14 computer paper boxes of books I had no use for (i mean really, NO USE FOR) to half priced books.....and they gave me $72.00 for them. I went to TARGET, asked to see the pet dept manager (that isn't what they called him, but that worked) told him I was spending all my money on cat food for animal friends .....they had a request out for food. (I had the article in my pocket) He gave me two bags that
were sliced open and I bought 7, eighteen pound bags of meow mix that was on sale, and target gave them to me tax free because it was for a non profit and I was donating......see why I love TARGET!!!

Again, we have to always (if we can) pay forward. all around us people need help. It's not hard to help. It's not hard to be nice. It's very rewarding. These are desperate times for some people! (don't forget about our little animals too)

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by popcorninthesofa

For those of us who have not prepared at all and are reasonably healthy if/when SHTF, and really do not know anyone close by, please, at least have a bike, some munchies, a bag of your important things like meds, water, etc., and a hand gun with at least 200 rounds of ammo so you can have a chance to bug out to another town for supplies. Also, I'd like to personally thank Sachita again for offering up her land to our community. Farmland here in the midwest, has risen to nearly $6000 an acre.

a bag of munchies and 200 rounds of ammo? lol thats funny. You can shoot your food or yourself if you get too hungry? lol

I have a few bins packed with stuff but you can pack a back-pack in the event you need to leave quickly. If you live in the city no doubt you'll have to leave.

But lets get back on topic as far as how you'll survive is the government stopped sending out money and large corporations closed down forced us into a mega recession. How can you live cheap, safe and sustain in the worse of times. Being prepared is important and I also think while you figure out a plan how to grow or get food and water, perhaps start stock piling what you can. Remember when the price of rice jumped really high? This could happen with everything. Especially the more big companies control our food sources. having enough food and water to survive should be on everyone's list. Even if you take an extra 5.00 a week, start now buying a few extra can's or a bag of rice and store it.

[Apocalipstic]

I do have a backpack of freeze dried food, blankets, wind up flashlights and wind up radio with cell phone charger.

[Sachita]

If you live in urban areas where you are solely dependent on public works such as sewage, water, etc. you should definitely have a back up plan. Know how you would leave if you needed to. Know what your next move might be. I know its hard but it's important to be prepared. Not just for disasters but devastating economic times. Have a food supply of some degree to at least hold you over until you figure something out. Learn some skills - how to start a fire (or buy something that will help you start a fire in wet and wind), how to create shelter, get safe water.

If you are able you begin to make a plan to live some place safer, maybe towards the country where you can at least garden, fish, forage for food. Imagine living like you did back in the old days when they didnt have electric, running water and walmart. I'm not saying you must live this way now but if you are able to live rural now would be the time to start planning to do so.

[Blade]

One thing that those of us who think our survival skills are honed well, don't really think of or at least I know I don't is gasoline. I live quite a few miles from town and I no longer have a horse. So if gasoline wasn't available or was expensive I'd have to figure out something there.

I believe it was 2008 a hurricane hit the gulf coast and it made gas here in the Carolina's hard to come by. I also remember we never thought hurricane Hugo could possibly come this far inland. I happened to see a gas truck at a convience store, it was a small local company's truck. The driver thankfully filled my tank for like $3 a gallon. LOL we think that is cheap now but trust me it wasn't in 1989. Actually pumping it off the truck is illegal.

But it is something to think about. How would those of us who live "out of town" get to town to get supplies if gas was hard to come by or if we couldn't afford it.

[Sachita]

this is for you Blade

[SoNotHer]

There's a gentleman in my community who has made it his mission to tell anyone he meets about Peak Oil. If you aren't aware of the term, the theory and the period we are in and about to enter, familiarize yourself please.

There is a movement called "Transition Towns" that is based on the idea that the easy, cheap oil has largely been found and the idea of transporting things from great distances at a hefty environmental cost (if not yet an economic one) is unsustainable.

Here are a couple videos and links on Peak Oil and the Transition Towns movement:

Originally Posted by Blade

One thing that those of us who think our survival skills are honed well, don't really think of or at least I know I don't is gasoline. I live quite a few miles from town and I no longer have a horse. So if gasoline wasn't available or was expensive I'd have to figure out something there.

I believe it was 2008 a hurricane hit the gulf coast and it made gas here in the Carolina's hard to come by. I also remember we never thought hurricane Hugo could possibly come this far inland. I happened to see a gas truck at a convience store, it was a small local company's truck. The driver thankfully filled my tank for like $3 a gallon. LOL we think that is cheap now but trust me it wasn't in 1989. Actually pumping it off the truck is illegal.

But it is something to think about. How would those of us who live "out of town" get to town to get supplies if gas was hard to come by or if we couldn't afford it.

[dykeumentary]

Peak oil = yes.
Plus, the internal combustion engine was a bad idea when it was developed almost 200 years ago. I hope the stirling engine gets a more thorough investigation, it is an intriguing technology.

Here's a tip for your survival kit, from a builder:
Start stockpiling nails - all sizes, especially big galvanized ones. They are metal, which will always have value, they are great for structural applications. Nails can be hit with anything heavier than the nail. Screws are much less valuable, they break, the heads strip, they rust. Without power, you'd hurt your wrist and elbow driving them, that is if you have a screwdriver.
Just sayin'.

[Stacy]

Originally Posted by Rockinonahigh

I have a life time lease on 20 acers out in the back woods of Louisiana,there is a cabin,deep well,plenty of game with a little used lake that joins the property.My son and I can bug out to it if needed,the cabin is made of brick and stone and has a fire place 10 feet wide and 4 feet deep with a 2 foot drop in the floor of it to keeep the ashes and wood form falling or embers going to far the grate is steel...yeah I know its kinda mid evile but sturdy as can be.My cousin owns the property but has no intrest in it,there is enough room to plant a guarden have some live stock to boot its so wooded that as I chop trees for the fire place I can clear it as I go.The only reson I dont stay there now is its location.When my uncle was liveing he took enough solor panels and all it takes to put them up in the cabin.Uncle is old army he set it up real good.

I like the idea of communal living in separate dwellings. I'd love to find someone who owns a huge chunk of land, like the one mentioned above, and work out an arrangement with them to park my RV or Tiny House on their land in exchange for any services I can offer to the little community. It would be awesome to live on huge plot of land with tiny houses scattered everywhere and a like a big tent/building as a common area. I think it could work and could be pretty awesome.

[SugarFemme]

I agree with you 100%. People would have privacy in separate sleeping dwellings and maybe communal meeting and eating areas. And work could could possibly be each according to his/her ability. Each according to need. Socialist/Kibbutz ideology. I've lived it before and it works really well if thats the lifestyle one is comfortable with.

Originally Posted by Stacy

I like the idea of communal living in separate dwellings. I'd love to find someone who owns a huge chunk of land, like the one mentioned above, and work out an arrangement with them to park my RV or Tiny House on their land in exchange for any services I can offer to the little community. It would be awesome to live on huge plot of land with tiny houses scattered everywhere and a like a big tent/building as a common area. I think it could work and could be pretty awesome.

[SoNotHer]

And if for no other reason than for the pleasure of stepping on boards with nails. Ha!!!

Actually, I'm about to head to the gym and then head back to a pile of curbside boards that I started scavenging yesterday. Many are 2 x 4s with nails in them but still entirely usable.

Originally Posted by dykeumentary

Peak oil = yes.
Plus, the internal combustion engine was a bad idea when it was developed almost 200 years ago. I hope the stirling engine gets a more thorough investigation, it is an intriguing technology.

Here's a tip for your survival kit, from a builder:
Start stockpiling nails - all sizes, especially big galvanized ones. They are metal, which will always have value, they are great for structural applications. Nails can be hit with anything heavier than the nail. Screws are much less valuable, they break, the heads strip, they rust. Without power, you'd hurt your wrist and elbow driving them, that is if you have a screwdriver.
Just sayin'.

[SoNotHer]

That was the plan for my farm. You share the work and the wealth and draw upon people's strengths. Intentional communities are happening, and I think we may see more and more of them.

Originally Posted by OneOfAKind

I agree with you 100%. People would have privacy in separate sleeping dwellings and maybe communal meeting and eating areas. And work could could possibly be each according to his/her ability. Each according to need. Socialist/Kibbutz ideology. I've lived it before and it works really well if thats the lifestyle one is comfortable with.

[SugarFemme]

Seriously, if you can ever pull this together, or need help doing it, please let me know. It is something I have seriously been thinking about for many many years.

Originally Posted by SoNotHer

That was the plan for my farm. You share the work and the wealth and draw upon people's strengths. Intentional communities are happening, and I think we may see more and more of them.