Letting Go Of Friendships

[PinkieLee]

Originally Posted by Apocalipstic

and often, years later we meet back up and its like they were always there.

I totally agree! Sometimes people need a lil' breathing room to live & grow.

[Julie]

I am pretty much the person who takes a lot from a friend, before I walk. Like Daywalker - When I walk... There are no words - I just go. No explanations. BUT, it takes so much for me to get there.

One time in my life, I walked away from a friend and it broke my heart.
1995 (or so) and he was just diagnosed with aids. He had always had unprotected sex and we talked about this - but once the diagnosis came, he went on a rampage of unprotected sex - not caring about who he infected. "I got infected, they didn't care about me!" I tried to convince him to get help. I flew out there (DC) to be with him and try and help him through this. He told me to drop dead and fuck off.

Finally I said... "I am calling your doctor and therapist, and I am telling them what you are doing. I hope they report you to the authorities. You are killing people and doing it knowingly." I left and walked out that door, only learn a few years later he died. He also did not stop doing what he was doing. He just became more careful about it (or so this is what mutual friends heard).

I cannot stand by and watch those that I love destroy their lives or others. That is the point of no return for me.

I miss John and our friendship. We worked on the Names Project in DC together in 1993. That's the irony - He devoted so much of his life to helping others with HIV/AIDS... But that was before he was diagnosed.

Just sad.

[Novelafemme]

Originally Posted by Apocalipstic

I have been known to hold really big grudges, I am learning to let it go.

On the other hand, I have let friends go because they seemed toxic and years later we meet back up and it is like nothing ever happened...we grew back into each other.

I have been toxic at soem points and when I know I am way toxic, I try to stay away from people as much as possible.

I love this, Apocalipstic! Well, everything but holding on to big grudges. I tend to be the opposite and forget why I was ever upset with the person in the first place. It takes quite a bit to push me completely away and to date that has really only happened once. Very recently, as a matter of fact. And this person had been in my life for nearly 13 years on a very close and intimate level. I had tried to sort through my feelings toward her for years and could never put my finger on exactly why I felt so much animosity and distrust with both her and our friendship. I remember a conversation I had prior to making the difficult decision to end our relationship premanently, where I made scare quotes when saying the word friendship, and the person I was talking to had to stop me and point out what had just happened. I had just acted out my feelings in a very poinent manner and the truth was quite telling.

I have also been toxic to people at different times in my own life. And like Apocolipstic said, those have been times when I know I need my own space and time to sort through whatever is going on for me so I don't continue in a destructive manner. It's SO hard to recognize unhealthy behavior and for so many years I distanced myself from friendships all together because of how exhausting they could be.

As for forgiveness, I believe that I have a great capacity to forgive people who have hurt me. I don't want to go to my grave with any anger or resentment in my heart. The bottom line for me is that we are all so incredibly different and I know that my openness and loving nature leaves me a bit more vulnerable to emotional predators, but I get better and stronger every day and am learning not to take on everyone else's shit as my own personal cross to bare. And it feels good.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by CatalinaRose

I love this, Apocalipstic! Well, everything but holding on to big grudges. I tend to be the opposite and forget why I was ever upset with the person in the first place. It takes quite a bit to push me completely away and to date that has really only happened once. Very recently, as a matter of fact. And this person had been in my life for nearly 13 years on a very close and intimate level. I had tried to sort through my feelings toward her for years and could never put my finger on exactly why I felt so much animosity and distrust with both her and our friendship. I remember a conversation I had prior to making the difficult decision to end our relationship premanently, where I made scare quotes when saying the word friendship, and the person I was talking to had to stop me and point out what had just happened. I had just acted out my feelings in a very poinent manner and the truth was quite telling.

I have also been toxic to people at different times in my own life. And like Apocolipstic said, those have been times when I know I need my own space and time to sort through whatever is going on for me so I don't continue in a destructive manner. It's SO hard to recognize unhealthy behavior and for so many years I distanced myself from friendships all together because of how exhausting they could be.

As for forgiveness, I believe that I have a great capacity to forgive people who have hurt me. I don't want to go to my grave with any anger or resentment in my heart. The bottom line for me is that we are all so incredibly different and I know that my openness and loving nature leaves me a bit more vulnerable to emotional predators, but I get better and stronger every day and am learning not to take on everyone else's shit as my own personal cross to bare. And it feels good.

I amn working on the resentment and grudges thing! I don't want that negativity in my life any more. Definitely work in progress!

[Medusa]

I'd like to use some of Teh Arwen's questions as a bouncing off point:

So what do you think? Have you ever held a grudge?

Most definitely. It always tended to come from being so deeply hurt and angry that I just could'nt get over it. At this point in my life, I don't like to hold grudges against people because that takes up way too much space in my heart. What I do instead is maintain my boundaries with that person in more effective ways. I think I have been guilty of holding grudges, which feel to me like maintaining anger, when what I really wanted to do was make sure tht person never had the access required to hurt me again. I try to live now remembering that what I do is about me, and that what they do is about them.


Ever had to let a friend go because they were toxic?

Unfortunately, yes. Letting go of a friendship that you deeply care about is a very hard process and not something I take lightly. I often will try to endure their faults, providing they endure mine, for a long time. This can sometimes lead to resentment if I dont keep myself in check that their behavior is sometimes their coping mechanism and not necessarily because they are doing something "to" me, but rather acting out their behavior "around" me.
Toxicity in a friendship looks like this to me:
* disrespect of my partner
* disrespect of boundaries
* taking constantly without ever giving back
* betraying confidences with the intent to harm
* treating the friendship like a love relationship in which I am expected to act as surrogate wife or partner (which comes with unreal expectations)
* manipulation or hostage-holding behavior
* unhealthy competitiveness
* constant demands on time or affection without regard to what I have going on in my life.

Do those things long enough in a friendship with me and I have to wave goodbye. I like to think of it as "letting go with love".

Ever had to tap dance around someone because they were in your circle of friends somehow?

Yes. I would never want people around me to feel like they have to choose sides. I am not always great, however, at keeping my feelings inside but I do try to not be a roadblock for other people to have relationships with people I am no longer friends with. It can be super uncomfortable to do the tap dance and I have been known to remove myself from situations where I feel that the other person is going to use the time with shared friends to play out their drama with me, cause I'm not really having it.


How do you do it gracefully? How do you do it without turning it into a community/family/friends free-for-all?

I am often ungraceful but the one thing I try to do is remember that everyone is going to have a relationship based upon what works for them. If I break up with a friend who is a manipulating victim and they are able to maintain a friendship with others who are ok with their behavior, then I leave that to them.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting up with any shit so if the person I'm no longer friends with starts telling people "Did you know that Medusa is an asshole? Here's WHY!" and then proceeds to tell a lie about me or rewrite history so that they appear to be the victim of me, that person will probably be getting a phone call from me.
I probably would wait a while to make that call though because the people who are my friends and who love me aren't going to let someone else tell them what kind of experience to have of me.

The people who would listen to that kind of stuff and ingest it? Probably not my friends anyway.

I try to keep in mind that people change. I certainly was not the same person 10 years ago that I am today. We change and hopefully grow into better people.
I think if I cut someone out of my life who had been a friend and they showed up 10 years later, I would watch them for a long time before accepting them back in my space.
I would check these things:
Are they repeating the same behavior that caused me to break up the friendship with them?
Are they honest about their behavior back then?
Are they able to take responsibility for what they did and allow me to take responsibility for my stuff as well?
Are they rewriting history and having a very different recollection of what went down between us?
Are they still dwelling in negative/manipulative/dishonest space?
And on some level, have they been able to maintain any friendships in the last several years? (If they haven't, I'll wonder why)

More in a bit! Great thread!

[atomiczombie]

I have a healthy grudge against my older brother, the main abuser in my life. I say healthy because it doesn't consume me, and because he is still someone who is unrepentant and unsafe. He want's nothing to do with me now, so it really works out well since that is mutual.

As for friendships, I can't say I have had many that are with crazy toxic people. I tend to have for the most part healthy friends; it's some of the people I have been romantic with in one form or another who have been really toxic. I am much better now at spotting that early on and steering clear of them.

[Scota_Parisi]

Because of living, in general, I have boundary lines. A lot of them are generally pretty standard. Some of that stuff we learned in kindergarten. Others aren't so easily defined, but fall more to my comfort levels based on lessons of being burned, etc. previously by exes, various family and friends. Those get to be a bit more hair trigger. Especially depending upon the experience/reason behind why that line is there.

12 years of "Joint Custody" with my ex was full of landmines and sand traps. Lots of trial and error. Out of that came patience, the ability to step back when necessary and to know which battles were important - which ones to let slide.

There are boundary / comfort lines I keep up. Helps to keep things calm. If someone has hurt me and others, they do get kept at arms length. Yep, I can hold a bit of a grudge for a while. At least until I can figure out why it is I'm really angry. And often it is because I've let someone get close to me and they've really hurt me or someone close to me.

Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

[tazz]

wow... i love this thread... so empowering and healing

Have you ever held a grudge?
yes...at times. this is a work in progress with myself. when i feel toxic/negative energy i tend to walk the other way and maintain my own sense of boundaries and distance.

Ever had to let a friend go because they were toxic? Yes. unfortunately, the people i removed or removed me were too much drama... always taking... never thanking... very needy. after the fact, i would ask myself what about my persona is attracting such peeps? was i lonely? was the care taker coming out in me again?
in friendship and with people who are acquaintances i find myself feeling like i want to make sure they are safe/ok/in good hands. i realize i cannot take care of anyone... so i learn to live and let live.

Ever had to tap dance around someone because they were in your circle of friends somehow? i dont tap dance anymore. i used to... and was always snarked at while doing so. so now i'm just very clear, direct, and blundt. so, now i am sometimes called "curt." another work in progress.

How do you do it gracefully? uhmm i guess my walking away is my gracefull way of leaving.

How do you do it without turning it into a community/family/friends free-for-all? i pull the person aside and speak my peace in a very diplomatic manner and hear their side. then, i put the relationship in a coffin and nail it shut.
i need to. i know this may sound extreme, but, this is my metaphor for having self-worth, self-empowerment, and good boundaries.

[ruby_woo]

Hmm. I try not to hold grudges, and will try to forgive people if they seem sincere in their apology. I'll give you a second chance, but not a third. A couple of years ago, I reconnected with a girl who was one of my best friends in high school, but hurt me very badly. She apologized, saying she was in a really bad place at the time, and because it was over 10 years ago, I forgave her and we started rebuilding our friendship over the course of a few months. Then she started some spewing some crap all over Facebook about how it's horrible that people are being forced to accept gays even though it's against their religious beliefs blahblahblah. GIRL I JUST TOLD YOU I WAS A DYKE WTF. So I cut her out of my life. Again. She tried contacting me again, but I explained that I really don't have any need for attitudes like hers in my life and that was that.

I have another friend I've known since 8th grade who's...I don't even know what to say about her. Bad decision after bad decision after bad decision, and constantly begging folks to bail her out. It's draining, but I've known her for half my life. We went to Europe together when we were 16. But good grief...

I think the lesson here is that ruby_woo needs to pick better friends.

[cara]

I'm curious about the author's use of the word "grudge." I have always related a grudge to be a negative thing that I'm doing such as not letting go of a past hurt or slight. However, the author seems to suggest it's a positive thing...like a shield that helps keep her sanity in check and the negative people at bay.

As she listed off groups, I could easily identify people in my life that at one time or another fit into each one. Most are no longer a part of my life. So in that aspect, I guess I do put boundaries up in order to save myself a whole lot of heartache and sorrow. People who are no longer a part of my life? A few select exes, friends who were more emotional vampires than anything, friends who were only there when they wanted something from me, a family member who was overly opinionated and argued down anyone who dared to offer a differing opinion, and friends who lived in a whirlwind of drama. Like other posters, I generally just walk peacefully away.

I, too, have been "let go" and, as Arwen mentioned, it does hurt. A lot. Sometimes I understand and sometimes I don't. Of all the people no longer a part of my life, losing the friendships always seems to be the hardest on me emotionally. Once the sting's gone, I try to look at the situation objectively and ask myself what I could or should have done differently. Sometimes I really am at fault. Other times, it's both parties involved. I

Great topic, Arwen.

[J. Mason]

I do hold grudges and won't really let go even after the friendship has been dissolved.
I do not go out gracefully by any means, I make myself known and the reason why I have done what I did.

Right now I am in the process of letting go of some people who were once friends, it is kinda painful but when you do what you did, than you get what you get from me.

[Rockinonahigh]

Over the years I have had a fue grudges that I never ask for nor did I ever expect to deal with.The ones hat hurt the most are from the people I trusted most that either stabed me in the back or have been a family thing to deal with.One is with someone who I worked for but didnt see that side of them till I had worked for them for several years...total turnabout that left me reeling,if I saw that person today I would have to turn and walk the other way..its better that way.The other isnt my grudge, its a cut off from my oldest son,we have had problems over the years but nothing to cause this. I have no clue as to what started this.I have tryed to call,wrote letters..I could go to his house but wont because of the people he hangs out with that are some of the worst trouble makers in town.I am not safe there at all.Maybe one day I will hear from him..but I doubt it.

[Arwen]

Cara, I agree. I think she is using the word grudge as a sort of shield.

I think it's good to break the word "grudge" down. I have a really negative connotation as well.

Verb: Be resentfully unwilling to give, grant, or allow (something).
Noun: A persistent feeling of ill will or resentment resulting from a past insult or injury.

So for me, I don't want to use it in this case as the noun because that makes me feel like I'm giving up my energy for people who are no longer allowed in my hula hoop area.

But as a verb? I'm very much loving that for this use. I am extremely unwilling, resentfully so in fact, of giving granting or allowing a person I deem as toxic to have any place in my life.

So I can see where hold a shield/grudge in this case would be a healthy thing.

I also know that it can be an overkill to hold a grudge to the extent that you have to do whatever you can to take that person down. I used to cross the line with great regularity. I was mean and evil when it came down to it. I would go out of my way to point a finger and stick a foot out to trip someone up.

I can't do that any more because of the energy. I truly believe it ties me to that person in a distinctly unhealthy way. So, like others here, I would rather bless them and release them.

What I will do now is answer as honestly as I can if anyone asks me a direct question about someone I am no longer friends with. I'd rather not engage in gossip and character assassination. It isn't healthy for me. It isn't putting myself first.

[Passionaria]

Have I ever held a grudge?
Yes, sigh, but I do know it hurts me too. I have noticed though that the older I get, and through accepting my own mistakes, the more compassion I feel for the human delima. Life is so messy.

Have I ever let go of a friendship?
Yes. I am very picky about who is in my inner circle. I'm not attracted to negative, or cold people, or malicious. Once I see a person does not mean me well, or I find they gossip about me behind my back when they can't be honest to my face, I'm done. I just walk away. With a loss of respect.

I have some very old friends who's behavior works my last nerve sometimes and I have walked away from them for periods of time. But, if the bond is strong I usually take them back into my heart, and don't expect them to be what they are not. Sometimes when you are really someones friend you have to love the good and bad in them, and see it for what it's worth. The question then becomes is it worth it? And often it is, occasionally it's not.

Have I ever lost a friend?
Just once, and I was crushed. We did a lot of talking about what my mistakes were, and I made some. We never did address their part in it, with complete candor or disclosure though. I did learn a big lesson by the experience; when to shut my **** mouth. Emotional roller coaster rides are best taken in the privacy of your own home, with the internet and phone OFF! LOL

Pashi

[persiphone]

i don't hold grudges. i'm too lazy. i've worked very hard on out of sight out of mind and i'm so good at it that it's like autopilot. if you aren't in my life for whatever reason then i don't need to contemplate it, dwell on it, have a grudge.

i tend to cut negativity out of my life swiftly and with precision. sure there will be chances, but once those are run through i got to go cuz now you're just wasting my time. negativity drains me too quickly and it zaps the sparkle out of my step and i just don't live like that. it is my life, afterall, and i'll live it how i choose to and misery is not my destination.

i don't ask my friends to choose and my friends don't ask me to choose. i don't tapdance. i'm not the appeasing type of person. i just walk away. it's less people i have to talk to. i also will back away from friends/acquaintances that are friends with people i wouldn't be friends with, if that makes sense. i've left partners over their circles of friends. why bother?

i was let go out of a 20 year friendship when i started dating butches. somehow, my being gay was ok as long as i dated girls. i've been let go as result of partners of friends having some kind of issue with me as well and i'm ok with being let go over that cuz i would never want to deny my friends a chance at love, even if i disagree with it or don't like it. this happened to me with a best friend about a year ago. the relationship was brief and she regretted it but i couldn't go back. i'm not a go back kind of person. i'm a go forward type person. but i do miss her and i find myself struggling a little bit with that one cuz we had such a fun friendship. she texted me yesterday. i have to admit there's a tug. i haven't decided yet. with some people i can pick up where we left off if i wasn't that close with them cuz things just happen sometimes and circumstances change and whatnot. i'm not completely unreasonable. it's the close friends that i have to be more diligent about because the potential for damage is greater.

i prefer to avoid a fight. i dunno if that makes me graceful or not. i tend to just shut down and shut out. once someone has gotten me to that point there really is no getting me out of it. my life experience has taught me that people will not change and it's best to make a quick and clean cut. hashing it out for hours on end isn't going to make it different and it's probably not going to change my mind or theirs and again is just wasting my time at that point and i have my life to live with people i enjoy being around. those people don't enjoy me when i'm being dragged down and i certainly don't want to waste their time with negativity that's been placed upon me by someone else. no. so yeah...no tap dancing and no bullshit. be a quality friend or move the fuck on. cuz i certainly will.

[Arwen]

Originally Posted by Passionaria

Emotional roller coaster rides are best taken in the privacy of your own home, with the internet and phone OFF! LOL

Pashi

That needs to be quoted and quoted and quoted again! Well said all of it, Pashi.

[tazz]

i tend to NOT blend/mix well with people who are constantly moody and have a temperamental side. those with egos.

i tend to attract and be attracted to those who are tolerant, kind, honest, and compassionate

i am a sensitive soul with a Very passionate spirit.

people who know me Very well, tend to describe me as such:

"be my friend and i will give you the shirt off my back and my undying loyalty, otherwise get the FUCK outta my way..."

and if i get burned... the nail goes in the coffin, sealed, and you are out of my life, for good.

[Rockinonahigh]

When I was going to college I met a couple of queer girls,they were a long standing couple with two kids and one was in my class at school,we became colse friends over the years.As time went on the drama became so bad I wouldnt anser my phone when they called,at school I kept things very brief then went on my buisness.I finaly had to end the friendship because of the feeling like I was being drained dry with the constant needyness of the both of them,when they split it was a double dose.I finaly changed my phone number then quit going to the places we use to go to.I didnt give them a reason I just walked away as quietly as I could.Over the last year I have cut people who were emetional vampires out of my life.I dont want to hold grudges,I dont have time or energy for them..all the energy I have now is put to doing good things that are possitive...feels so much better.

[smouldering]

It can be really difficult when having to let go of a friendship especially if at one time you were close to them, but after a while, when certain things happen it becomes a situation of enough is enough and the time comes when we seriously have to think about how healthy this friendship is.
I know personally i have had to end friendships with people who were emotional vampires, after interacting with them I would feel completely physically and emotionally drained and after a while, it seemed like the only time they ever really wanted to talk was if they either needed something from me, or wanted to drag me into their drama and I started feeling really on edge and annoyed every time I would hear from them, it got so bad that I knew I needed to put some space between us or it was going to get worse, and after cutting ties I felt a lot better, I have also needed to do this with family members.
I am empathic and sensitive to others and over the years I have had to learn how to sort of shield myself, there are times I feel like a magnet for the overly needy, but now due to age and experience I think, I am sort of able to catch on rather quickly if I am going to have issues with a certain personality and can sort of prepare for it if that makes sense?

When I was younger I used to hold grudges, especially against those who hurt myself or my family.. but over the years ive realized it took way too much energy so nowadays i am more apt to just let go and move on

[Sachita]

So what do you think? Have you ever held a grudge?

I am the type of person that can get pissed off, say whats on my mind and be totally done with it in 30 min. I don't harbor anger well. I might allow tension with a lover to brew, simply to keep peace as I turn it over in my head a few days but eventually it comes out and I move on. I don't hold grudges. When I'm done I'm done. But it takes a lot for me to close a door.


Ever had to let a friend go because they were toxic?

I love and echo what Medusa said.

I will befriend almost anyone, however I have very little time and I will will not invest or nurture a relationship that isn't reciprocal. I have plenty of online buddies I share with and that fills a certain gap, however I am at the point in my life that I will not waste time, not even a few hours, unless I feel I am investing into a long term solid friendship.

i've let a lot of people go including family.



Ever had to tap dance around someone because they were in your circle of friends somehow?

I don't tap dance. If I dislike someone they probably know it and I just ignore them. I'm always a lady, never rude but I just don't invest time or energy.


Medusa said-
Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting up with any shit so if the person I'm no longer friends with starts telling people "Did you know that Medusa is an asshole? Here's WHY!" and then proceeds to tell a lie about me or rewrite history so that they appear to be the victim of me, that person will probably be getting a phone call from me.
I probably would wait a while to make that call though because the people who are my friends and who love me aren't going to let someone else tell them what kind of experience to have of me.

I could write a book of the people I've so-called victimized. When you are a strong and successful there are people who want to ride your coattails but never ever reciprocate. They make every attempt to discredit you because you refused to play their pathetic games and their passive aggressive manipulation. They are liars but they are so use to getting by in life this way they have mastered it, to a degree. YOU on the other hand refuse to defend yourself against insanity or get wrapped up in the petty gossip. This makes you the bad guy. lol- But here's an interesting observation.... have you ever noticed that the "victims" of US crazy ass abusers, never stick around? They talk a lot of shit, stir up as much trouble as they can and then exit. At least that has been my experience.

I don't really listen to gossip no matter how many sources it comes from. I find people that do this petty and weak. If you have something to say, to protect a friend then you should really know the facts before spreading the continuance of rumors.

I had an absolute crazy person weave the biggest circle of lies I had ever seen. Someone who spent a great deal of time reaching out and trashing my name. It went on for years and it was a fluke that I found out. I was speechless and couldn't understand the motive. Turn out it was a fatal attraction. Many of the sources unrelated to a degree and I know a people that have gone through the same thing. If someone comes to me with gossip I stop them. I don't really give a shit.

BTW Medusa I'd graciously own the title BITCH. lol I am a bitch but I am a loyal honest and good friend. I don't lie, I don't cheat and I don't play games.

I have a few rules I live by and it took me 52 years to develop them and a lot of hard ass lessons.

1) Other than girlfriend banter and playful gossip, if you meet someone and they constantly talk badly about people, they are an asshole and will talk bad about you.

2) Stay clear of people who have no history, no friends, no family. They they have no history and have cut everyone off there's a reason why.

3) If I catch you in a lie I probably won't believe anything you ever say again and therefore we'll never make it as friends.

4) never ever under any circumstances date or get super close with a friends EX. We're talking good close friends. Not people you know. If I causally know you and your ex is hot, I'm going to try and hook up. If you're my "friend" I don't care how fucking hot your ex is to me this is sacred ground.

5) Friends make each other a priority. I rarely ask for anything but when I do I expect my friend to drop everything if they can. I do the same for my friends. If I here a lot of excuses chances are you'll be moved to the acquaintance category.


I have friends for 25 plus years. They are like family and even though we can go months without talking there is a bond that never goes away. I am always interested in investing into these types of friendship. I don';t waste my time otherwise.