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Old 06-03-2010, 04:39 PM   #21
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Like Bulldog I am a stone butch lesbian womon.
After thinking a while on this I realized that there are many many reasons I guess people might think I have made this choice for myself ,
in fact not long ago I was talking to a good friend of mine and she seemed shocked when I told her I was "stone" ( this gal has known me for like 15 years..too)
shes like" OMG! YOU ARE KIDDING ME ! YOU are, YOU DONT?...!!! Whats wrong with you?"
Honestly I was shocked at how damn rude She was for one, but even more concerning was my close friend, a lesbian, will probably always think something is sexually wrong with me.
She was like " maybe you should talk to a counselor if you are "that weird" about people touching you.
what about your sexual pleasure,you dont let anyone down on you, or anything?? you need that, that cant be healthy for your mind or your body!"

( I know I know ... kinda makes ya wanna ...well, ya gotta know her .. she means well Im sure......lol)


WTF?... so heres what I told her.

Listen , I have super fantastic mind blowing orgasms.... PHYSICAL YES, IN MY genitals! sometimes even screaming, growling crying climb the walls and cause an earthquake kind!

Better than I ever could get with hand genital, or face, or whatever contact.

My breasts fed my babies , I never liked my breasts messed with, didnt turn me on, nothing, I usually always wear a sport bra or a shirt. I was heavy chested ( now Im just hangy chested ) so they kinda tangle up and get in my way.

I never wanted anyone down on me, cause I wanted to be the one doin that, it was a waste of time,time that I could be eatin' some pussy for one,gettin my turn on, making love to a womon.
IT doesn't do it for me, dont care for it, I simply dont like it.
It feels good to say it regardless of the other presumption of.... there must be a reason for that too.....
But
I think its like... some people like their feet rubbed, some dont, for some it tickles too much and some just dont want their feet touched... no specific reason.....Its kinda like that for me. I dont like my face touched either...all people are different. Because society says I am supposed to like that kind of touch doesnt going to mean I feel the need to spend years in therapy to figure out why Im not like everyone else, Im way past that , way past caring, cause I know Im not like everyone and I like it like that!

It isnt about feminizing for me either , I dont freak out if someone tries to touch I just , nicely remove their hand and go on about my biz. or simply stay dressed and explain that it is my Plan to make love" to her".

My greatest sexual pleasure is making my partner feel that she is the most desired beautiful, sexy womon in the world at that moment and the fact she is sharing her body with me , allowing me to make love to her is an appreciated honor.
That is where the spiritual comes in... I really really believe thatand feel that way!!

I respect the fact that all Womyn are Goddesses and I treat them as such.
I ask no one for anything sexually they woudnt want to do, and somethings I wouldnt do, even if I was asked, with that same respect. Womyn have been demoralized, stereotyped , made guilty, expected of, called bitches and whores, called frigid, ,, emotional, needy,and made to feel unattractive , unsexy, fat, for whatever reason different than a barbie doll for more than 5000 years by society and , well, lets face it... men ,
so I dont partake in sexual things Im afraid may hurt her in someway......Maybe Im a prude, maybe Im old, maybe Im boring, but.... thats me, old fashioned, old school or whatever.

for me Stone means:
I am a womon who gets my sexual pleasure and orgasm from the act of making love to a womon with out need of desire for genital stimulation by my partner.

Over the years the "stone " part gradually evolved during this journey to create myself.
( By the way I kinda feel thats what we all really do throughout this life here , find what resonates with us according to our experiences and our inner perspective and we begin to aspire to maintain that energy , and with it " create ourselves ".)

Stoney

cool thread BTW


( yeah... I got junk...just like any other womon...prolly wouldnt wanna see it anyways.... lol)
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Old 06-03-2010, 04:42 PM   #22
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Interesting.

I've asked three stone femmes what is meant by stone and I got three different answers.
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Old 06-03-2010, 04:45 PM   #23
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Interesting.

I've asked three stone femmes what is meant by stone and I got three different answers.
That will happen with individuals.
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Old 06-03-2010, 04:58 PM   #24
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Is there something Im missing here?

what is this post about?????


and.......hmmmmm....

what is it you are trying to convey pertaining to your " stone" sexuality


maybe Im just not grasping the gist of it.. IDK?



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Originally Posted by apretty View Post
i'm femme and i've been with a few butches with personal sexual-boundaries. i can't even remember if they called themselves 'stone'. but the self-identifying-'stone' butches i have been with all defined stone way differently: for some it was about breasts, others vagina, others about just respecting their body and following their lead as far as what was cool, what wasn't so cool--and what was 'no way' --usually the butt, a lot of people have some butt-boundaries (and i even think that this one butch had herpes and that was her way of navigating sex stuff.)


personally, i've only been *stone* when i'm just not that into who's fucking me; somehow that goes over better than 'could you come over and do me and then go home because i can barely stand you, but i'm single and you'll do.'



oh and i have to just add a little aside: there is no feminizing touch, you think rubbing a clit in a circular motion vs. an up and down motion 'feminizes' someone? if that's true--that's a REAL delicate butch (with regards to their masculinity) that you've got on your hands, as it were.

and ..... the above...in red ...pardon me but.... errr hmmmm WTF are you talking about?????

this about being "stone", not being stoned.


Have a nice day.....
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Old 06-03-2010, 05:27 PM   #25
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I thought I was stone for a while in that I had issues penetrating another person. I found it upsetting and it turned me off. In my case, though, it was a stopping place on my own journey, rather than the final port of call.

I eventually figured out I was deeply afraid of violating another person, that when I went there, it bothered me because of this fear - to the point where I was dissociating a bit. On top of that, I was just new and I hate being bad at stuff.

Over time and in increments, what part of me I considered stone went away. I am still extremely concerned with knowing boundaries and with trusting my lover to have a strong "no" should she ever need to use it, because I don't want to find out after the fact that something I have done made another person feel violated. It's still a really deep fear. Having confidence and trust in this respect has just really allowed me to be in my own skin and just be able to enjoy (relish) those experiences which I was most reticent about before. Plus, it helps when you're with somebody just really amazing.

Even though I'm not stone anymore, I am really grateful to those stone femmes who were there for me back then. Without several wise stone femme voices, I may have mistakenly felt during that time that maybe I wasn't queer after all or queer enough. I was very recently out of a straight marriage at that time, and I was so unsteady on my feet. The voices and presence of stone people within the community really made me feel like there was a home for me here whether or not I had the capacity or desire to perform to the standards and reciprocity levels that I may have otherwise felt were expected of me.
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Old 06-03-2010, 10:35 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by apretty View Post
oh and i have to just add a little aside: there is no feminizing touch, you think rubbing a clit in a circular motion vs. an up and down motion 'feminizes' someone? if that's true--that's a REAL delicate butch (with regards to their masculinity) that you've got on your hands, as it were.
I have to disagree with you..

You can speak about how it works for you, maybe people you play with, but you don't get to set the rules on what makes someone feel uncomfortable with their sex play..

I have an ex, that it didn't matter how high he was.. how turned out he was.. if I worked him a certaint way, it shut him down sexually.. It made him feel like a woman and that didn't match what was going on in his head..

According to him.. one way felt like a clit, another way felt like a cock..

Who is anyone to say someone is delicate because of the way something physically feels?
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Old 06-03-2010, 10:53 PM   #27
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For me, "Stone" is about my gender. My gender is Femme--specifically, Stonefemme. It encompasses who I am and how I live my life, how I carry myself as a female-bodied person in this world; it's about boundaries, energy flows, and respect.

For me, being a Stonefemme is natural. It makes me flexible. (Yeah, I know, nobody thinks of Stones as flexible--surprise!) It means that I am able to fit well with partners who have varied gender and sexual identities.

It also means that respect is at the heart of everything I do, respect for myself and my boundaries--not just sexual, but relationship and social as well--and respect for my partner and his (or her) boundaries; as well as respect for the people around us and their relationship and social boundaries. They can keep their sexual lives to themselves, tyvm... but then, that IS a part of my social boundaries to be private about sex. You might not think so if you've known me online for very long, but this is a different space and dynamic, not at all the same here where we're analyzing/dissecting/discussing our identities and lives as, say, the neighborhood association meeting tonight!

So yes, for me, Stone is a gender ID and it encompasses WAY more than sexual boundaries. Yes, I can respect any no-fly zones. Yes, I understand how to speak and act in ways that support my partner's sexual and gender identities. Yes, I am flexible enough to be able to partner with people who might have vastly different no-fly zones--or whose no-fly zones might change over the course of the relationship.

No, sexual boundaries are not the be-all and end-all of my identity, nor are they most important part of being Stone for me. Stonefemme is a big huge identity; the word is about the totality of who I am. It's not one small limited piece of my life... it's the over-arching framework that fits into the world and makes space for me.
From my ME place, my experience is that you are a rarity......

But as for what stone means, that's been an evolving concept for me partially due to discussions with folks like Bit. I used to think stone encompassed pretty specific sexual boundaries. But I have shifted my view that it's about whatever sexual boundaries might be negotiated. And because I have some boundaries (that I feel no need to get detailed about) I fit Bit's definition of stone even I don't fit what I used to understand as the generic definition of stone.

Again from my ME place, stone is there for me but more background and less foreground. Identity is a very individual thing and what is important to one person may be much less important to another.

I've also found that my understanding of self and identity has evolved over time. Some of it is learning to be comfortable in your own skin. Some of it is learning from other people's thoughts and experiences.
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Old 06-03-2010, 10:53 PM   #28
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Random: I don't feel as though I can respond because I'm not responding from a place of 'embracing my stone' identity. sorry, my words will have to stand on their own.

To all: I hoped to add to the variety of ways that we use 'stone'--I'm sorry that I lacked reverence for the stone identity.
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:01 PM   #29
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I think about stone quite often..

There are so many different ways.. so many different definitions...

For me.. for former partners..

I'm very flexable in my sexual desire.. For me it's all about the energy exchange.. That is what sparks the desire for what..

When I am dominant... I really don't want to be touched.. It doesn't feel good because I have been so out of my body focusing on my partner...
It's actually anoying because I have completly retreated into my mind and am concentrating on my partners body, her mind set... how can I take her higher, does she respond to this?...

For me.. it is a different kind of turn on.. It's completly mental and it's intoxicating... It's very rare for me to want to be sexualy touched when in this mind frame..

When I am submissive... I don't reach for breast or between legs... I touch the back, sides, chest, arms, legs, stomake, ass... I'm not avoiding anything.. It's just not what attracts my attention... It's not what feels natural to me...

When I am with a partner who is stone... well.. pretty much, I go where the energy manifests... I will leave it at that...

Human sexuality take on so many different forms... For me.. if it feels organic and natural... if it feels good.. then yea....
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:05 PM   #30
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Random: I don't feel as though I can respond because I'm not responding from a place of 'embracing my stone' identity. sorry, my words will have to stand on their own.

To all: I hoped to add to the variety of ways that we use 'stone'--I'm sorry that I lacked reverence for the stone identity.
Very nice cop out...

your lack of reverence for something that shouldn't be revered any more than any other sexual id isn't the problem.. Your judging people for what is true or right for them is...
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:26 PM   #31
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Sorry Ms. Junie Ma'ma...

I will play nice..
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:31 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Daryn View Post
From my ME place, my experience is that you are a rarity......
I understand--and I truly hope your experience will change, and you will discover lots of other people like me. *kotc*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daryn View Post
But as for what stone means, that's been an evolving concept for me partially due to discussions with folks like Bit. I used to think stone encompassed pretty specific sexual boundaries. But I have shifted my view that it's about whatever sexual boundaries might be negotiated. And because I have some boundaries (that I feel no need to get detailed about) I fit Bit's definition of stone even I don't fit what I used to understand as the generic definition of stone.
Your comment ties into something I've been thinking a lot about, the "generic definition of stone." I personally believe that when people define "Stone" as merely a physical part of sex, they are leaving out two-thirds of it. It isn't just what you physically do or don't touch. There's also the gender component and the relationship component. For example, if I am with a Stone Butch and I'm using the correct kind of touching in the correct area (whatever kind of touching that particular Butch prefers in whatever area is preferred), then I am meeting the physical component of being Stone.

BUT if I am using the wrong pronouns and terminology as I do so, I am failing utterly to meet the gender component of Stone. This would be as true if I were to use male pronouns and terminology for a female-identified Stone Butch as it would be if I were to use female terms and pronouns for a male-identified Stone Butch. This example might be pretty obvious and y'all might be saying "duh!" but think about this... there are Butches who are only male-identified during sex, and who at other times are completely okay with a female identity. There are Butches who need to be acknowledged with male pronouns and terms whenever they're packing or binding, but who are okay with female terms and pronouns otherwise. There are also Butches who are only comfortable with Butch pronouns (hy, hym, hys). For me, part of the flexibility inherent in being a Stonefemme is the ability to wrap my mind around which part of the gender terminology fits where, and at which times. This is a second component of being Stone.

From what I have experienced so far of the relationship component of being Stone, most Stone Butches are extremely protective of their partners and expect to be allowed to act publicly on that. Stonefemmes are also protective, but in my experience we tend to express it differently, more quietly.

I believe that although Stone relationships are NOT the same as Leather or BDSM relationships (not to say Stones don't enjoy those relationships, just that they are not synonymous), there IS a deliberate element of power exchange built into the Stone relationship dynamic; from what I have seen and experienced, it's very common for a Stonefemme to be the wife and a Stone Butch to be, if not the husband, the husbutch, in a more old-fashioned, less strictly egalitarian kind of relationship. Being acknowledged as head of the household seems to be important to many Stone Butches. This is not universal by any means, but it is truly common, so common that it often (usually?) colors the way Stone Butches interact with Stonefemmes even when they are friends and not partners. So for me, respecting this relationship dynamic is a third component of being Stone.

Many thanks to a correspondent who asked me some questions privately that sparked this thought process. I don't think I'd articulated these three components in quite this way for myself before, and I appreciate the chance to do so now.

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When I am with a partner who is stone... well.. pretty much, I go where the energy manifests...
What a wonderful way to put it!! Yes, exactly so for me--I go where the energy manifests! Thank you for this elegantly concise statement!
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Old 06-04-2010, 01:46 PM   #33
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HSIS??? Hi there!

On what being "Stone" means to me:

(on a sensual/sexual level): A part of me wants to say that I identify with being Stone because of my system of boundaries. I prefer my lover/partner to be Stone because I view myself as receiving in sensual/sexual ways and submitting to the flow of energy exchange, in this type of relationship dynamic. This feels natural to me.

(on a personal level): My willingness to take on a Stone identity also infers that I am okay with being on my own and cognizant that my Femme-ness (and relationship skills) compliments - as if dovetailing with greatest of ease - with other beings who identify with being Stone.



PS/ It's good to read other thoughts pertaining to how one percieves being Stone.
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Old 06-04-2010, 03:20 PM   #34
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Bit, one of the things I want to tease out of you is clarification on this....

"it's very common for a Stonefemme to be the wife and a Stone Butch to be, if not the husband, the husbutch, in a more old-fashioned, less strictly egalitarian kind of relationship"

Can you touch on or give examples of how you think it's "a less strictly egalitarian relationship"? The reason I ask is that when I think of an old-fashioned relationship, I think of my nonna and her second husband (not married to the first for very long and so this the relationship I saw her in all my life). They got married in the '30s. They were both working class and both held jobs outside of the house. Within the house, she cooked, he washed dishes, she did laundry, he did yard work (but she had a veggie garden which he tilled and then she tended with occassional help), they divided house cleaning. He might have worn the pants and done the driving if they were both in the car, but she was a powerful force in that house. They had their ups and downs. But they stuck it out through everything. And I never saw her as less than equal to him not even as a kid.

Admittedly, there were very different dynamics in the house I grew up in. But I would have never called my parents old-fashioned either nor are either of them traditional in much of any sense, except for my father trying to be an MCP.
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Old 06-04-2010, 03:46 PM   #35
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Ah but Daryn, I wasn't thinking about straight relationships when I posted... I was thinking about the kind of Lesbian Feminist relationships I came out of, where everything was strictly equal and exact reciprocity was the rule--you know, "I go down on you, so you must go down on me; I go out to work so you must go out to work; I cooked supper tonight so you must cook supper tomorrow"--strictly reciprocal in all things, yanno?

So to me, a Stone relationship is a relationship between equals, yes, but it's a power exchange and things are not set up to be strictly reciprocal.
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Old 06-04-2010, 04:40 PM   #36
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Ah but Daryn, I wasn't thinking about straight relationships when I posted... I was thinking about the kind of Lesbian Feminist relationships I came out of, where everything was strictly equal and exact reciprocity was the rule--you know, "I go down on you, so you must go down on me; I go out to work so you must go out to work; I cooked supper tonight so you must cook supper tomorrow"--strictly reciprocal in all things, yanno?

So to me, a Stone relationship is a relationship between equals, yes, but it's a power exchange and things are not set up to be strictly reciprocal.
OK. That makes sense to me. It's been a long time since I was in a relationship anything like you are describing and I've never seen that as any kind of *for me* iconic relationship.
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Old 06-04-2010, 04:48 PM   #37
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I'm not really up for throwing the details of my sex life out on the internet so I'm keeping it pretty general.

To me in my life stone has to do with personal sexual likes and desires. I've found this is the one thing in my experience, the sole commonality of "stone" (this outside of those who use it just as another way to say hard butch).

For myself, rather than being concerned about some "feminizing" touch or gender concerns (I'm still "she" and my "masculinity" can't be affected in the least by bedroom activities, no matter what I or someone does) but it's about certain set boundaries I have and prefer respected exactly as I would want to respect anothers.

I can't be "feminized" by touch, besides it's not something I'm thinking about in the hot and heavy and it's not upsetting in any way if a line is accidentally crossed... people just have to gently let each other know what's up at that point.

I sure as hell aren't going to get all upset over it, nor would I want someone all overly worried about it, I'm not breakable... lol.
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Old 06-04-2010, 05:18 PM   #38
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I sure as hell aren't going to get all upset over it, nor would I want someone all overly worried about it, I'm not breakable... lol.
You are consistently one of my favorite posters (not posers) here. :-) Have a great weekend!
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Old 06-04-2010, 05:34 PM   #39
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Okay heres some questions I would like to throw out there and hear some feed back.

If a woman is in a relationship with a stone butch , is she now a stone femme?
Does that change an identity if the person you are with is stone? or would you simply identify as femme?
If you would be changing your style of sex out of respect for the person you were with or is it a lifestyle you would continue to pursue even in a different relationship? also would a woman who identifies as a stone femme whether in a relationship or not only look to date a stone butch?

I know for me, being Stone isnt an issue if it was a casual thing but what about a different senerio, you fall in love with a person who wasnt stone before, or maybe you fall in love with a stone butch and you arent....would you always feel like something was missing? Would you miss making love to a woman? I always wondered if my partner was feeling restricted from something she may desire to do with me or to me , just like I do her.

stone butches...
Has being stone been greeted with the wide eye " your Kiddings" like I described in a previous post in this thread?

Do you tell people you are stone, I mean in the general community, not Butch-femme? is it something personal you only share with your partner?...
Honestly I dont just put that out there. It isnt a common knowlege thing among my Friends, except here, online. I only cross that bridge if I come to it I guess.

I know in my group of lesbian / gay friends although there is the stereotypical look of butch-femme dynamics in a few of the couples I know , But none as "obviously Defined as my own. In fact many use the word "butch" almost negatively.

as in " see that girl over there, God she's so Butch..eewwww.".....yeah well, as in yuck.


But most of those girls, I am 15yrs their senior...... , I dont know. " they call me old school"........
Maybe .. Im just old ..lol

but anyways.. thats probably enough to get a convo going I hope. thanks all!

Much Peace, Stoney
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Old 06-04-2010, 06:32 PM   #40
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stone butches...
Has being stone been greeted with the wide eye " your Kiddings" like I described in a previous post in this thread? No not at all, people I've talked to online and met in person are respectful of it if it is brought up in conversation. Sometimes people have questions about why or how or whatever.

Do you tell people you are stone, I mean in the general community, not Butch-femme? is it something personal you only share with your partner?...Well I think it is a personal topic, not something I'd just be telling someone out of the blue oh and by the way I'm stone. I think unless they were of our community they'd look at me like I had 3 heads, wondering wtf is stone.
Honestly I dont just put that out there. It isnt a common knowlege thing among my Friends, except here, online. I only cross that bridge if I come to it I guess.

I know in my group of lesbian / gay friends although there is the stereotypical look of butch-femme dynamics in a few of the couples I know , But none as "obviously Defined as my own. In fact many use the word "butch" almost negatively.
Until I came online I never liked or used the word butch. Actually the first time I heard the word, I was wearing a uniform at work and my boss said that color on you makes you look to butch. To which I replied who the hell is Butch, Butch who. LOL

as in " see that girl over there, God she's so Butch..eewwww.".....yeah well, as in yuck.


But most of those girls, I am 15yrs their senior...... , I dont know. " they call me old school"........
Maybe .. Im just old ..lol

but anyways.. thats probably enough to get a convo going I hope. thanks all!

Much Peace, Stoney
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