Sexism in Technology

[Arwen]

Okay, so I looked at those ads. Some of them are violent. Others are just more objectification of women. The border patrol one is horrific. That's not violence against men. That's the sexy female cop with her bra showing and her panties "just there". http://www.genderads.com/Vio._Ag._Males.html#24 is another one that is a man hitting his shadow or a woman's shadow. How is that violence against a man?

The fact remains that those in power really can not be lessened or controlled by those images.

Women are used as bait in advertising. A good marketing campaign can create a sexual response in a non-sexual item such as a car or a powertool. Throw a bikini-clad babe at it and you have an attention-getter.

Honestly, if I were male, I'd be insulted that my libido was thought to be the only thing that drives me.

Kellie, I had many of those calls where they thought I was the RECEPTIONIST! Grrrrr. Made me want to break their computer rather than fix it.

[Waldo]

This morning I was reminded about the woman who hired me into the company I now run. Anyone ever experience this?

Woman hires me and when I actually do great she moves from supportive and encouraging to hostile and undermining - eventually to the point of screaming at me and blaming me for her poor decisions in front of not just staff, but also customers.

Why is it that some women see other driven and successful women as such threats?

[RNguy]

Originally Posted by Waldo

This morning I was reminded about the woman who hired me into the company I now run. Anyone ever experience this?

Woman hires me and when I actually do great she moves from supportive and encouraging to hostile and undermining - eventually to the point of screaming at me and blaming me for her poor decisions in front of not just staff, but also customers.

Why is it that some women see other driven and successful women as such threats?

Wow, friend, I'm so sorry to hear that occurred. To pull someone in private and have a professional conversation is one thing, but to do so in front of coworkers, and customers even is just absolutely over the top wrong and the lowest you can take things.
That makes her look like a complete fool! If I were a customer and witnessed something such as that, I would feel so bad, and let her know I would not take my business there at all.
I feel so sad and sorry you had to go through that.
Do you ever feel that the good employees get all the crap, and the employees who are lazy and call off all the time get rewarded?
I just don't get how and why things occur at all. Makes no sence to me.
Sorry to hear that again, keep your head up my friend.

-RNguy

[Medusa]

An interesting article:

http://www.medialit.org/reading_room/article448.html

[Daryn]

I've worked in IT for a very long time and my job titles and duties have changed over the years. In the 70s, overt sexism was rampant. Vendor support personnel would address me as honey, little lady, sweetheart, missy, darling, etc. and doubt my technical aptitude at every turn. I worked for IBM for awhile and my basic training included being taught to accept full on harrassment. It was expected. Times have changed on that front. And I think women are more accepted in the industry. However, mostly I still don't see them in the senior most positions.

As for Medusa's initial comment about communications, I'd say that if a woman has a very direct communication style that is seen as masculine and usually not acceptable. Years ago, I had worked about a 12 hour day on a stressful project (it was day 3 of this) and I was handling 2 really critical issues. A woman came with a minor issue and I told her she'd have to wait until the other problems were solved. She complained to my (female) boss and I got disciplined. My immediate response was to ask if one of my male co-workers (used his name) would be getting talked to if he'd done the same thing (and he would have) and I was told I was not him. I have issues about being too direct in communications than almost anything else.

[WILDCAT]

Glad you posted here again, about this concern Medusa.

Sorry, you got batted down a bit with "but, men are victimss too" when you first reached out here on this topc, on YOUR SITE... (Which reminded me of some of us friends in town talking one night about a female friend of our getting banged up by her boyfriend - and one person said, "well, women are batterers too"!)

Yuck. Missed the point. Big time.

I encourage you to get all of the support you possibly can. TO ME, what you have started up here IS AKIN to building the friggin' Starship Enterprise from your kitchen table!

Now me, being the good technophobe that I am, would handle it this way:



So, I bow down to you (looked for that emoticon and could NOT find it)!?
__

Anyway, also wanted to mention that when I wondered into chat the other night, with that NEW FORMAT from the original - and you guys gave out a holler, and I was so excited I knew someone... and they knew me, AND I couldn't figure OUT WHERE THE HELL to answer and... then "changed the channel?"" or some damn thing... (?!) and never could find you again.

Thus, I did not blow anyone's "hello's" off! Really.

Now, I see there are MANY places to go for everyone there. But, why did I start out on that - where YOU guys happened to be, and "where was it, anyway?", (if you even remember)... and I'm wondering since the site had to be rebooted after that, will I be back "on track" when I try again to go back on chat? (i.e. What determines where you open up to, when you first go on there - like where you last were perhaps?) Because I last was LOST! That night, I kept re-opening the chat and was still on that changed channel - alone (lol) wherever that was. I tried to do this private message to Jack then there (on chat?) to help out, but didn't get a response. I don't know if he got it or not... (?)

Making no bones about my stupidity here.
__

And finally, this post of yours, the link - reminded me of high school, wondering why I HAD to take HOME EC. class! Blech!! But, by my senior year I signed on for wood shop, the first female to do so. That felt MUCH more to my comfort zone. I know, this is a little bit of a derail (actually two of them), but there is a point in here somewhere to this thread topic - honest.

SMILE,
WILDCAT

[Medusa]

One of the things that happened at my job recently (again, in a high-tech marketing firm):

Someone actually suggested color-coding datapackets (not paper ones, ELECTRONIC ones), as in changing the font color, to PINK for any company that was "female related".

[Linus]

Originally Posted by Medusa

One of the things that happened at my job recently (again, in a high-tech marketing firm):

Someone actually suggested color-coding datapackets (not paper ones, ELECTRONIC ones), as in changing the font color, to PINK for any company that was "female related".

Seriously.. my response is..

[Gentle Tiger]

Originally Posted by Medusa

One of the things that happened at my job recently (again, in a high-tech marketing firm):

Someone actually suggested color-coding datapackets (not paper ones, ELECTRONIC ones), as in changing the font color, to PINK for any company that was "female related".

Ok, FOR REAL?? REALLY?? Seriously, REALLY??

Now to the thread itselgf - once again, this is why I appreciate you Medusa because you force me to exercise the matter that is allegedly under my skull! I have had odd experiences in the tech world moving from black female to black male on the QA/QC side of the technology fence.

The first category falls under performing as female and operating at that same level as male as a tester (not lead or manager).

As a Female - It seemed that the level of expectation and even demand was higher as female - more like of course you achieve. That's to be expected. However, you still need to work twice as hard to be considered equal.

As male - it seemed more like people were amazed that I came to work on time. The level of expectation as male was lowered. So in some instances it was easier to shine and in other instances it was impossible to even get a shot at taking on a more challenging project because it was assumed I could not operate at that level. Not sure if what I'm saying makes sense.

The other category falls under experiences during interviews for a QA Manager position as black female vs. black male.

I have to put color in there because I go back to the level of expectation. The interviews were easier as female. Easy not in difficulty of question but being able to discuss background, opinion. The employer's questions were about determining if I would fit into their department/organization. It was more about getting to know me. The flow was there. I felt I truly was being questioned as a potential candidate. However, after transitioning the questions were from one of suspicion; like they didn't believe I could really have the credentials and experience I have. So the questions have at times been more of trying to catch me in a lie. I actually had a person look at a sample of the work I provided (test plan and automation scripts because I always bring them to an interview) and ask if I actually wrote the documents myself. What?! that was my reaction internally.

I've tried to explain the above to others but haven't communicated clear enough.

Where I can say I have seen clear sexism is in pay. Unfortunately I have experienced better pay as a man than I did doing the same job as a woman. That bothers me too!

Thanks again for the thread.
Gentle Tiger

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by Gentle Tiger

Ok, FOR REAL?? REALLY?? Seriously, REALLY??

Now to the thread itselgf - once again, this is why I appreciate you Medusa because you force me to exercise the matter that is allegedly under my skull! I have had odd experiences in the tech world moving from black female to black male on the QA/QC side of the technology fence.

The first category falls under performing as female and operating at that same level as male as a tester (not lead or manager).

As a Female - It seemed that the level of expectation and even demand was higher as female - more like of course you achieve. That's to be expected. However, you still need to work twice as hard to be considered equal.

As male - it seemed more like people were amazed that I came to work on time. The level of expectation as male was lowered. So in some instances it was easier to shine and in other instances it was impossible to even get a shot at taking on a more challenging project because it was assumed I could not operate at that level. Not sure if what I'm saying makes sense.

The other category falls under experiences during interviews for a QA Manager position as black female vs. black male.

I have to put color in there because I go back to the level of expectation. The interviews were easier as female. Easy not in difficulty of question but being able to discuss background, opinion. The employer's questions were about determining if I would fit into their department/organization. It was more about getting to know me. The flow was there. I felt I truly was being questioned as a potential candidate. However, after transitioning the questions were from one of suspicion; like they didn't believe I could really have the credentials and experience I have. So the questions have at times been more of trying to catch me in a lie. I actually had a person look at a sample of the work I provided (test plan and automation scripts because I always bring them to an interview) and ask if I actually wrote the documents myself. What?! that was my reaction internally.

I've tried to explain the above to others but haven't communicated clear enough.

Where I can say I have seen clear sexism is in pay. Unfortunately I have experienced better pay as a man than I did doing the same job as a woman. That bothers me too!

Thanks again for the thread.
Gentle Tiger

Thanks for giving such a great example, Tiger! (and so so SO happy to see you around!)

This is, indeed, an interesting perspective. I had never thought about how the interview process might be different for males v. females except for wondering if males get asked about their "communication style" (which I always read as "are you a good bitch or a bad bitch?")

Do you think that when being interviewed as a male and they question your work as your own that it might be because plagiarism or "resume padding" happens more with males or is it maybe that whole "women are more honest" thing? Did you ever get a vibe for that?

Great thoughts here for sure, Im pondering more now!

[Gentle Tiger]

More to think about
I'll be back. And it's good to be here.

Originally Posted by Medusa

Thanks for giving such a great example, Tiger! (and so so SO happy to see you around!)

This is, indeed, an interesting perspective. I had never thought about how the interview process might be different for males v. females except for wondering if males get asked about their "communication style" (which I always read as "are you a good bitch or a bad bitch?")

Do you think that when being interviewed as a male and they question your work as your own that it might be because plagiarism or "resume padding" happens more with males or is it maybe that whole "women are more honest" thing? Did you ever get a vibe for that?

Great thoughts here for sure, Im pondering more now!

[Medusa]

Pardon me while I grumble about encountering too many tech teams that want to give the women on the team the "design" work and leave the actual building of the infrastructure to the men.