Question to butches and how they deal with differences in dating

[imperfect_cupcake]

It's a novella, I apologise. Please have patience. If you want to skip to the point without context, scroll to the bold bit and larger print, you lazy sod

I've broken it into as many small paragraphs as possible for easier reading and put the hypothetical in a different colour to separate it out

I think I probably have only "asked the butches" very, very few times in my 20 year career as a femme...

I know that just because you all share an ID will not mean you see things the same way. I'm not that special kind of idiot lol. However, I do want to hear a plethora of views of how YOU deal with a difference in dating values.

I'm going to give you a scenario - please bear with me, I know I'm long winded but I personally think context and background is really, really important in trying to understand a matter rather than going on "rules."

Someone said that when they see someone they like "bang" they know it and they want it and they want to go after it. That's why when they like someone, they want monogamy for the get go.

I'm very much NOT that kind of person. I do feel chemistry with people, of course. But often just because that chemistry is there, does not mean we will be compatible in the long run. There are too many other things to take into consideration than chemistry (really "getting" each other) for instance there is how we fight, how they communicate, what their values are around certain things, how much they drink or smoke pot, ideas around spirituality or religion, and treatment of others.

I have had amazing and incredibly good chemistry with people who *really* got me, sincerely and absolutely, but who were also active addicts, or binge drinkers, or lied about other women, or were shit at keeping promises, or had mood disorders and bad tempers, or didnt share some values with me about certain things that didn't come up till four or five months in. Or although the sex matched initially, after the first smoke, we found we weren't all that compatible sexually, five or six months in.

This is why I am not someone that trusts instant chemistry and a great click. Yes, I need to feel that deep "understanding" to start to explore possibilities. I do think it's a good sign.

But I'm not that "I know what I want when I see it" girl. I don't put everything on that deep click and "understanding" because I've been with people where even with that, it went horribly wrong. I need to trust someone first before I go there. And that, for me, takes time. I don't trust people off the bat. It takes me a long time.

So I don't do things that way. I don't do monogamy from the get go. I want to know more than the click and the chemistry before I make a commitment. To *me* monogamy is a *BIG* commitment and I don't do getting to know someone when it's required I make a big commitment (to me) off the bat.

I can see that perhaps if we've been good friends for a couple years and suddenly we date (I've done this and had my first long term relationship ship this way, it was great. Totally willing to do that again). But NOT if we met through dating site and I've only met you two or three times over a three or four hour date.

It's been explained to me now why some people do that - because they feel they "know" right away. And I can't, because I don't feel that way. I just don't work that way. I don't even get crushes on people unless I sleep with them first. I don't get and never have gotten "a crush from afar".

If you want to skip to the point, without context, read from here

So here is the question - if you met someone that you had interest in - that you admire, respect, desire and have that fire of "know what you want" for - who dosen't do courting (monogamous only seeing each other) right away, but only does dating with no exclusivity or promises until they know you much better, before they even *think* of courting, even if they agree there is a good click, what would you do?

Would you push her to commit? Give her an ultimatum? Try to do things a new way? Walk away? Try to reach a middle ground?

You've been on two or three dates with them, say, and spend time sending each other emails and call each other for long chats a twice a week. You want monogamy, but she doesn't feel she knows you well enough to make that call and probably won't for three or four months, at least. Your metaphorical balls are turning blue and going to drop off because you are discussing sex, quite openly and I'm great detail, it's an important topic to her. You really want to have sex. She hesitates about it because she knows that you take sex very seriously, right off the bat.

She says she doesn't mind if you go on dates and talk to others because she doesn't expect exclusivity at this point in time. She will not be pushed, she's fiery and has excellent boundaries. Her no means absolutely not. But she is kind, generous, sweet, nurturing, honest, and much more vulnerable than she'll let people on to.

She normally also has sex with people without exclusivity at this point because to her and her history, it's normal and practical to get to know each other sexually as well before making commitments, like monogamy. Yes, even if she thinks you are the bees knees and have a fabulous click.

So? Tell me what you would do if you we starting to date this girl.

addendum:

If this isn't you (courting instead of dating) put yourself in the opposite box... You like someone, they seem different than most people, you are interested in meeting someone different, there is a nice click and you want to get to know them. You do dating (non exclusive getting to know) they only do courting (exclusive and romantic off the bat) What do you do? How do you work that out? Would you?

[MysticOceansFL]

It's really between the two people involved who are dating long distance , using Skype and emailing each other is a form of keeping touch with someone you care about and getting to know the other person. I would rather do online first because you find out things about the other person personality wise plus ( If they have an ex persay they are obsessed over her I would stay clear it's nothing but drama on both their parts) If your single be honest about it from the start if your not single do the same cause I'm like most butches I have morals and I'm not into femmes who are with someone. And as far as knowing about someone as in the ( click ) you can tell that online some but mostly that happens after you meet them in person.

[MrSunshine]

I think you've answered your own question in your post that I read and was not a lazy sod

If we can't agree on how things roll from the beginning I don't see much of a point in continuing.
But, I'm at the age where I'm way past just some chemistry. There has to be a whole lot more than "I like them"
I'm not going to invest my precious time on someone who wants to run the streets and take their time with me. Fuck that!

[imperfect_cupcake]

I'm already not understanding the answers...

Lol

You've met the person a couple of times, three or four hours each time, haven't slept with them, you are just talking. She's holding off sleeping with you because she's trying to be respectful of how you feel about sex till you can come to an agreement.

Let's pretend this hypothetical person is a real person who is nurturing, caring, generous and ME. And doesn't like hurting people. Not a game player. I need much, much more than chemistry, although that has to be there - that deep feeling of being understood. That's why I need to learn about people before I make commitments. I'm 45 and been around too many blocks. I like learning people first, and building trust.

So can we go from there?

Mr sunshine, I also have zero clue what "run the streets and take their time with me" means ... It looks like "if she doesn't subscribe to immediate monogamy, she's a slut" but I'm not sure if that's what you mean...

[MrSunshine]

Originally Posted by imperfect_cupcake

Mr sunshine, I also have zero clue what "run the streets and take their time with me" means ... It looks like "if she doesn't subscribe to immediate monogamy, she's a slut" but I'm not sure if that's what you mean...

Fuck! No, I don't mean that at all. This is why I usually don't bother to try to have a serious conversation in forums. It's just to hard for someone else to figure out what your trying to say.
I hope you find the answers you're looking for.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Lol!!! Well, that's ok. That's why I asked. What does that saying mean, I ve never heard it before? Clarification is always a really good thing when using our talky holes and typing.

I'm not angry. I think you'd have to do a lot worse than that to offend me....

Pardon if my bluntness made it sound as if I was.

[MasterfulButch]

To provide context for my answer, yes, I’m the sort of butch who chooses monogamy for myself as soon as there’s a special femme in my life. This is not done in the mentality of imposing a rule and it isn’t something that feels like any kind of sacrifice to me. On the contrary, it comes with an awareness that someone in my social sphere has achieved a certain level in my affections and this is something to be celebrated. The monogamy choice is like a by-product of this positive realisation.

One thing that I would like to flag straight away is that, from my perspective, sex goes way beyond the physical and I think this is a differentiation that could really impact on the questions you’re asking. For me it’s probably 80% emotional and 20% physical. From what I’ve seen this differs from person to person but I find it translates to a situation where I’m only likely to be intimate with someone with whom I experience a significant depth of emotion and have a belief in at least potential longevity. There have been a couple of instances where I have acted against this approach and frankly, they were far more to do with my own fears at the time than a positive, empowered choice. I am not saying this applies to anyone else, just me. Anyway, now I’m a bit older and I’ve learnt from these experiences, I’m pretty settled that for me, sex equates to an intimacy that I want to indulge in within the confines of a relationship. I guess to follow this thought to its conclusion; this means that being single pretty much equates to being celibate for me.

With that background established, I am now thinking about your question as to how I would deal with the scenario you describe. I think the most important thing to me was that she was open with me. I would want to know that these are her thoughts and feelings on the matter, perhaps some reassurance that it’s a general thing and not me specifically and then honesty that she is seeing other people in a similar way. I would need to know all this early because it would have an effect on how I handled myself. I don’t think it would necessarily pre-empt my interest because I think so much of her in other, more important areas. I would, however, have to hold myself back more and actually have mentally grounding conversations with myself. The other thing is I don’t think I could sleep with her whilst she was sleeping with other people. I could wait, certainly, potentially for many months of getting to know one another. I guess this is the time when you’d find out about substance habits, spiritual beliefs and the value sets you’ve mentioned but once we mutually agreed to cross that intimacy barrier then I’d need her to suspend dating others. If sex was great and it was all going swimmingly then yes, I’d be looking for mutual monogamy at that point. If sex was persistently incompatible then we’d call it a day and she could once again date as she pleased.

Reading this over, I suppose it does rather sound both like an attempt to find a middle ground and an ultimatum. I don’t like the idea of giving someone an ultimatum but then I guess we all have things that are important to us, some we can flex whilst others would feel like a loss if we did. I don’t think I would like the person I would be if I was sitting at home imagining my lover being out and intimate with someone else. It is because of who I am and the peculiarities of my personality, that I would feel that what she and I shared was somehow diminished. My insecurities would flare and I would be such a fretful arse that I wouldn’t even want to be around myself. I wouldn’t want to be that person for me or for her. I totally get it that other people would feel completely different and I whole-heartedly respect that. I guess my ultimate litmus test would be whether or not I felt empowered. I can imagine feeling empowered having my value set and being monogamous. I can also imagine feeling empowered if I were more adventurous, had a more physical approach to sex and we were both out there exploring and enjoying what life had to offer, whether or not it was together. If there isn’t an area of common ground we could find where we both felt empowered then I would say that it wasn’t the right pairing.

I hope this is of some help to you.

[MrSunshine]

Originally Posted by imperfect_cupcake

Lol!!! Well, that's ok. That's why I asked. What does that saying mean, I ve never heard it before? Clarification is always a really good thing when using our talky holes and typing.

I'm not angry. I think you'd have to do a lot worse than that to offend me....

Pardon if my bluntness made it sound as if I was.

LoL. I'm just frustrated because it's hard to make a point sometimes.
Plus, that was a long ass post and a lot to sort through.
I like bluntness, you should have started there

Personally, I like things to be easier.

But, I guess if I met someone that wanted to take things slower or faster than me and we had everything that clicked then I would just roll with it and see where it went. I guess try not to get ahead of myself.

I would never call a woman a slut unless she wanted me too

[SleepyButch]

This stuff has been pretty fresh on my mind lately since I am putting my toes back into the dating pool.

The beauty of this whole thing is that we are all different. If I'm interested in someone enough to get to know them, I am flexible in how things play out. If she wants to be courted, I court her, meaning if I am really interested in getting to know someone and she wants me not to date anyone else, I don't.

If she just wants to date, I'm okay with that as well as long as I know where she stands and what she wants from dating. For example, if she NEVER wants to commit and just wants to have fun, depending on where I am in my life, I may just walk away. If she wants to take time to know me before any commitment then who am I to try to push her into monogamy when that is something she doesn't want at that point? Wouldn't that make her not like me very much from the get go?

In all honesty, my ego has a hard time understanding sometimes why someone I'm dating/getting to know would want to see someone else but that is not reality. That's just my own little fantasy. I like attention. What can I say? I know it doesn't work like that.

So back to your questions:

If someone I was interested in didn't want to commit until she knew me better, I'm okay with that. I would just date her. I wouldn't push her or give her an ultimatum. If I was wanting a committed relationship, I'd be honest with her about what I was looking for and that if we did click after several months, I would probably want that with her eventually.

I'm conflicted about the sex stuff though. I don't really like having sex with someone who is having sex with others but yet sex isn't always about monogamy either. Does that even make sense? So it would depend on the person I was getting to know on whether or not this would be a deal breaker for me.

I'm not really one to go around having multiple sex partners either when I'm looking for a special someone. Tried that in my last relationship and it was okay but not something I'd want long term I don't think.

Did I answer any of your questions or just manage to confuse everyone including myself?

Nothing is carved in stone and would like to think that most things are negotiable if I thought she was worth getting to know.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Nope you answered! And that seems like a good answer.

Thing is with monogamy and sex, I tend not to have multiple sex partners, it's very very rare I do. However, I don't like making the commitment of promising not to, before I know the person. It doesn't mean I'm going to go sleep with three other people. It means I don't like feeling like I've just signed a locked in contract to someone I don't know wherein my behaviour is controlled by their wants. Why would I promise someone I am just getting to know, ownership over my body? It is to do with ownership and control, for me, not that I'm going to go shag three other people.

Yes, even if I really, really like them. Even if I think they are the best thing I've met in a bajillion years. I will still, no matter how much I think they are better than everybody else, not want exclusivity until I know them much, much better.

I am happy to give that commitment over further in, but it feels like I'm handing a chastity key to my body over to a stranger, just cause we've had sex once. I don't like that feeling. And until I'm comfortable with who they are and what they are about, I don't give ownership of my body over to anyone. Except myself. Perhaps it's because I'm a submissive and I know what it feels like when someone wants to own my body - and part time that is fine - but when I walk out the door, my body belongs to me only. Until that person become my daddy/papi and that doesn't happen just because I have sex once. That happens when I can trust them. And that takes a long time.

But it is nice to hear people have an idea of flexibility.

Thanks sleepy.